Bengals kicker battle update: Practice Yesterday- "Elliot still struggling..."

[*Nately120*]

(08-19-2017, 07:16 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I didn't realize til now that the Bears had picked Aguayo up.  

Yup, much like us they have an under-performing scrapheap kicker in Connor Barth stinking it up there.  They may as well let Aguayo and Turbisky take their lumps and let the uninspiring vets watch.

(08-19-2017, 07:13 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I think they were equal in the last game.  Bullock got an extra shot at a field goal that Elliott didn't get and got a very lucky bounce off the upright that I guarantee you would go the other way in a game.  People are this board are making this out to be a lot worse than it actually is.  Bullock's already missed a field goal that we needed to win an actual game (Cue the apologists saying it wasn't his fault).  Keeping him and letting Elliott go would be a huge mistake.

I'd rather we keep Elliot, but I think saying it would be a "huge mistake" to go with Bullock is a bit of a stretch.

[BonnieBengal]

(08-19-2017, 07:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yup, much like us they have an under-performing scrapheap kicker in Connor Barth stinking it up there.  They may as well let Aguayo and Turbisky take their lumps and let the uninspiring vets watch.



I'd rather we keep Elliot, but I think saying it would be a "huge mistake" to go with Bullock is a bit of a stretch.

I don't.  I think if we do it we're choosing another Nugent.  We haven't had a good kicker in years.  I'd rather take a chance on the rookie.

[Pat5775]

(08-19-2017, 07:54 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I don't.  I think if we do it we're choosing another Nugent.  We haven't had a good kicker in years.  I'd rather take a chance on the rookie.

Based on everything we're hearing from camp, Elliott has been more like Nugent than Bullock. We'll see tonight how things go. I do hope Elliott can get it together, because I don't like Bullock either. As of now, I think we're screwed either way

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-19-2017, 07:14 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: He does.  He may be the best coach we have.  

Him and Urban, but Simmons has been great at his job for a long time.

I like Guenther too, he just hasn't had the time to really judge but Urban hasn't either and has done a great job.

If Zim is ever on his way out of Minni is still my fave to replace Marv but i do like all these guys.

[BoBengal]

(08-19-2017, 07:59 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Based on everything we're hearing from camp, Elliott has been more like Nugent than Bullock. We'll see tonight how things go. I do hope Elliott can get it together, because I don't like Bullock either. As of now, I think we're screwed either way

Haha Agreed on some of it!

Bullock with a 47-yarder and a touchback to start the game.

Elliot is one more shank away from getting a trashbag to clean-out his locker, or maybe getting a free pass to the practice squad.... unless we could trade a guy that's totally unproven and isn't winning the current competition.

[BoBengal]

Interesting read on this subject:  https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/20/16175018/are-bengals-tipping-their-hand-kicker-battle

Quote:Are Bengals tipping their hand in kicker battle?

The Bengals may actually be hiding Elliott in the event he’s waived so they can sneak him onto the practice squad.

The Cincinnati Bengals may be giving a hint as to who’s winning their kicking battle.

When the team first spent a fifth-round pick on Memphis kicker Jake Elliott in this year’s NFL Draft, everyone assumed he was the guy going forward. Even with a veteran challenger in Randy Bullock, the Bengals rarely cut fifth-round picks, let alone the first drafted kicker in the Marvin Lewis era...right?

No so fast. Thanks to Elliott struggling in practice for the past month, this is now a battle very much up for grabs, if not one that Elliott is actually trailing in. While Elliott is a perfect 3-of-3 in the preseason, all of his kicks have been fairly short attempts that he should convert just to stay alive in this battle.

In the preseason win over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Elliott got just one field-goal attempt, a 45-yarder which he converted. However, Bullock converted attempts of 54 and 49 yards, the last of which was to put the game on ice and give the Bengals a two-score lead with 2:58 remaining.

Then in a loss to the Kansas City Chiefs, Elliott converted a 45-yard attempt to cut the the lead to 10-6. His next attempt didn’t come until the fourth quarter when the game was out of reach, as his 39-yard attempt cut the lead to 30-12.

As for Bullock, he converted a 47-yarder to give the Bengals a 3-0 lead on the game’s first possession. He later hit a 26-yarder to end the first half and cut the Chiefs’ lead to 16-6.

The Bengals clearly aren't putting Elliott into high-pressure situations, nor are they giving him many long attempts. Those are mostly going to Bullock, who should be hitting those anyways. The Bengals need to see what Elliott can do with those so he can showcase his talent and composure.

That is, unless the Bengals are actually trying to hide Elliott, hoping to stash him on the practice squad later down the line. The public has seen nothing from Elliott to think he’s ready to be an NFL team’s primary kicker, and he hasn’t shown much promise in practice either.

Perhaps the Bengals realize it’s gotten to the point that they can actually waive Elliott during final cuts and sneak him onto the practice squad. Sure, the Bengals spent a fifth-round pick on Elliott, but he’s done very little to warrant another team claiming him off waivers.

And the Bengals are notorious for relying far too heavily on veterans they’re familiar with versus inexperienced rookies. Bullock may have blew his chance to secure his job in Houston last year, but the coaches probably still prefer him over a green rookie.

Regardless of what the Bengals are doing, one thing is clear: Bullock is the better option at kicker right now, and it’s hard to see that changing dramatically over the next two weeks.

[THE PISTONS]

I don't get how kickers are soo good in college then suddenly can't kick in practice and the Pro's.

[sandwedge]

(08-25-2017, 12:50 PM)BoBengal Wrote: Interesting read on this subject:  https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/20/16175018/are-bengals-tipping-their-hand-kicker-battle

Can't believe everything you read on the internet. Especially from this hogwash of a site.

[sandwedge]

(08-25-2017, 01:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't get how kickers are soo good in college then suddenly can't kick in practice and the Pro's.

Just like any other player or position, there is an adjustment period. Balls are different also, not sure if they still use a block in college or not. Sorry, I see the upside way highter for Elliot than I do Bullock. 

[THE PISTONS]

It's tough. I'm sure we'd all like to see the rookie make the team...but Bullock is kicking better and our best chance of winning is with him RIGHT NOW.

Kicker is a position that you can't take 2 years to develop at.

Maybe Elliot will get injured and get stashed on the IR.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2017, 12:50 PM)BoBengal Wrote: Interesting read on this subject:  https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/20/16175018/are-bengals-tipping-their-hand-kicker-battle

Or maybe the Bengals are trying to help out Bullock by showcasing him in the preseason so that when he's eventually cut, another team in need of a kicker will give him the job.

[sandwedge]

I know exactly what you are saying and won't disagree. However why doesn't Elliot miss during the game? Is it because maybe what they were saying when they drafted him was true? The kid doesn't panic when the lights are on?? I actually don't have the answer just speculating like everyone else.

On a side note, I keep hearing how deep Bullocks kicks on KO have been, do they shut the TV off when Elliot KO??

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2017, 01:52 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I know exactly what you are saying and won't disagree.  However why doesn't Elliot miss during the game? Is it because maybe what they were saying when they drafted him was true? The kid doesn't panic when the lights are on?? I actually don't have the answer just speculating like everyone else.

On a side note, I keep hearing how deep Bullocks kicks on KO have been, do they shut the TV off when Elliot KO??

Didn't Bullock ding a made FG off the upright in the preseason (in other words, he still made the FG, it just hit off the upright)? That's the closest either of them have missed and for that reason (and others), I'm still team Elliot.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-25-2017, 01:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Didn't Bullock ding a made FG off the upright in the preseason (in other words, he still made the FG, it just hit off the upright)? That's the closest either of them have missed and for that reason (and others), I'm still team Elliot.

This BoBengals MUST be someone related to or a close friend of, Bullock's; no 2 ways about it.

Anyways, made/missed in practice means absolutely **** for kickers, almost as much as the PS for everyone else, in terms of evaluating.

- Are the kicks being hit well?
- Are the kickers making any adjustments for wind, distance, etc.?
- Are they correcting their mistakes?

Kickers kick probably dozens of attempts each day and the three mentioned above, need to be evaluated on all of those kicks.

When they do, "7/7s," or, "simulations," many things can go wrong including snaps, holds, etc. Just because one goes 4/4 and one goes 2/4, doesn't mean that all of the snaps and holds were perfect, nor does it mean that the kickers aren't doing the 3 things mentioned above.

I can't wait to see Elliot win, then see this BoBengal guy disappear.

Oh and Zane Gonzalez looks like absolutely nothing special, so I hope all you Gonzalez lovers realise the folly, when he either doesn't make the team or if he struggles (he may do well, who knows?).

Just then, maybe, MAYBE will you realise that this team sometimes picks the better player.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-25-2017, 02:45 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: This BoBengals MUST be someone related to or a close friend of, Bullock's; no 2 ways about it.

Anyways, made/missed in practice means absolutely **** for kickers, almost as much as the PS for everyone else, in terms of evaluating.

- Are the kicks being hit well?
- Are the kickers making any adjustments for wind, distance, etc.?
- Are they correcting their mistakes?

Kickers kick probably dozens of attempts each day and the three mentioned above, need to be evaluated on all of those kicks.

When they do, "7/7s," or, "simulations," many things can go wrong including snaps, holds, etc. Just because one goes 4/4 and one goes 2/4, doesn't mean that all of the snaps and holds were perfect, nor does it mean that the kickers aren't doing the 3 things mentioned above.

I can't wait to see Elliot win, then see this BoBengal guy disappear.

Oh and Zane Gonzalez looks like absolutely nothing special, so I hope all you Gonzalez lovers realise the folly, when he either doesn't make the team or if he struggles (he may do well, who knows?).

Just then, maybe, MAYBE will you realise that this team sometimes picks the better player.

Elliott has looked like money in the PS.....dude hit that 45 yarder, split the uprights, and looked like it would have been good from at least 55....

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-25-2017, 02:52 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Elliott has looked like money in the PS.....dude hit that 45 yarder, split the uprights, and looked like it would have been good from at least 55....

Absolutely. Not to mention his kicks have lovely hangtime and placement on K/Os (the, "shank," that loverboy keeps referring to was a purposeful squib kick), I can't see him not running with the job, once he gets it.

[Luvnit2]

(08-25-2017, 01:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't get how kickers are soo good in college then suddenly can't kick in practice and the Pro's.

It is called narrower goal posts. Look closely how close these guys miss. The same kick in college 90% is good because posts are wider.

Edit: my mistake posts are the same

[Bengal Dude]

(08-25-2017, 04:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is called narrower goal posts. Look closely how close these guys miss. The same kick in college 90% is good because posts are wider.

Goal post width is the same in college and the NFL.

Quote:NFL and NCAA goal posts are 18 feet, 6 inches wide

http://www.stack.com/a/the-dimensions-of-a-football-field

[Luvnit2]

(08-25-2017, 05:00 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Goal post width is the same in college and the NFL.


http://www.stack.com/a/the-dimensions-of-a-football-field

My bad, I thought otherwise.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-19-2017, 08:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Him and Urban, but Simmons has been great at his job for a long time.

I like Guenther too, he just hasn't had the time to really judge but Urban hasn't either and has done a great job.

If Zim is ever on his way out of Minni is still my fave to replace Marv but i do like all these guys.

I don't mean to derail this kicker thread, but I am very excited to see what Paulie G has in store for this year.  He FINALLY has that edge rusher (or three?) that he has been asking for.  He was very outspoken about the need for a guy that can get to the QB, and it doesn't matter if the guy is 7 feet tall or 6 feet tall.  He was basically saying, without directly saying it, stop giving me these clones and get a speed guy.  

If you remember, Zim tasked Paulie with designing the blitz packages that we used so infrequently.  He was also the guy that taught Burfict the position of WILL backer after being a MIKE his entire career.  The word was they pulled an all-nighter in a gym with chairs set up as position guys.  I would say he taught him well

I think pretty highly of Paulie and think he falls victim to the Nixon syndrome at times.  Nixon debated the younger, more handsome Kennedy and those polled that watched on TV thought Kennedy won the debate and those that were polled that listened on the radio thought that Nixon won the debate.  Appearances matter, and I am not trying to sound like a douche but when Paulie sat next to Vance Jospeh in press conferences, Joseph was surely the more impressive looking and sounding when it came to the interview.  I think Paulie has the brains and the desire to make his defense the best in the league and now, I believe, he has the pieces to challenge that title.