One play has me convinced Zampese is not evolving

[impactplaya]

3rd and 2 from the Chiefs 14
Incomplete pass to AJ Green on a route that is always a 50/50 proposition.
You got to be kidding me.Right?
I need 2 yards to convert yet I'm going all or nothing to the end zone
Meanwhile I have 2 TES that I have yet to target or a hybrid TE/FB with really good hands
Funny how the Chiefs used 6'7 Demrtrious Harris all night inside the 15 and it resulted in 2 TDS vs our smaller DBs.
3 step drop hit Eifert or Kroft on quick button hook or Boyd on a slant
Heck Josh Malone is a match-up in our advantage
Spread the Chiefs and run a delay draw For Petes sake
That one play tells me Zampese is clueless on using his own talent
I'd take Brat any day over him

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-20-2017, 01:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: 3rd and 2 from the Chiefs 14
Incomplete pass to AJ Green on a route that is always a 50/50 proposition.
You got to be kidding me.Right?
I need 2 yards to convert yet I'm going all or nothing to the end zone
Meanwhile I have 2 TES that I have yet to target or a hybrid TE/FB with really good hands
Funny how the Chiefs used 6'7 Demrtrious Harris all night inside the 15 and it resulted in 2 TDS vs our smaller DBs.
3 step drop hit Eifert or Kroft on quick button hook or Boyd on a slant
Heck Josh Malone is a match-up in our advantage
Spread the Chiefs and run a delay draw For Petes sake
That one play tells me Zampese is clueless on using his own talent
I'd take Brat any day over him

Brat's infamous shovel pass did indeed often gain two yards or more -- but I still don't want him back.

[*bengalfan74*]

I'm still very concerned with Z's play calling ability as well. We'll find out a lot more in the next game.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

In Ken Zampese's defense he doesn't have much of the playbook to work with. If the offensive line can't run or pass block then only a few plays are possible.

1. Quick slant over the middle.
2. Screen pass.
3. Bubble screen pass.
4. Out routes of fifteen yards or less.
5. Draw play.
6. Shovel pass.
7. Quarterback read option.

...which is pretty much all we've seen since Ken Zampese took over.

[Pat5775]

(08-20-2017, 01:40 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Brat's infamous shovel pass did indeed often gain two yards or more -- but I still don't want him back.

Since brat was let go, I've gotten the feeling that he was handcuffed by Marv. A lot of the stuff we see now we also saw when Brat was here. Example, the play described above. The 50/50 lob to the end zone on third and short (or 4th and short) was occasionally called when brat was here. Infuriated us every time. I think it only worked once, against Carolina in 2006.

I wouldn't mind having Brat back if he was allowed to do his own thing. He was our OC for the glorious offensive units of 2005/2006. But things turned sour when Marv decided to take a more defensive approach to the game. This meant a more controlled approach on offense. Long, sustained drives that took plenty of time off the clock and kept the D fresh and off the field. Scoring quick and fast would not work with a defensive approach.

Coincidence that Brat's offense started sucking around the same time? Maybe.. But I have my doubts.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2017, 02:27 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Since brat was let go, I've gotten the feeling that he was handcuffed by Marv. A lot of the stuff we see now we also saw when Brat was here. Example, the play described above. The 50/50 lob to the end zone on third and short (or 4th and short) was occasionally called when brat was here. Infuriated us every time. I think it only worked once, against Carolina in 2006.

I wouldn't mind having Brat back if he was allowed to do his own thing. He was our OC for the glorious offensive units of 2005/2006. But things turned sour when Marv decided to take a more defensive approach to the game. This meant a more controlled approach on offense. Long, sustained drives that took plenty of time off the clock and kept the D fresh and off the field. Scoring quick and fast would not work with a defensive approach.

Coincidence that Brat's offense started sucking around the same time? Maybe.. But I have my doubts.

I've often felt the playcalling (both offense and defense) had been (somewhat) dictated by someone other than the respective coordinators. No way to prove it, though.

[Luvnit2]

(08-20-2017, 01:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: 3rd and 2 from the Chiefs 14
Incomplete pass to AJ Green on a route that is always a 50/50 proposition.
You got to be kidding me.Right?
I need 2 yards to convert yet I'm going all or nothing to the end zone
Meanwhile I have 2 TES that I have yet to target or a hybrid TE/FB with really good hands
Funny how the Chiefs used 6'7 Demrtrious Harris all night inside the 15 and it resulted in 2 TDS vs our smaller DBs.
3 step drop hit Eifert or Kroft on quick button hook or Boyd on a slant
Heck Josh Malone is a match-up in our advantage
Spread the Chiefs and run a delay draw For Petes sake
That one play tells me Zampese is clueless on using his own talent
I'd take Brat any day over him

Can I get your method so I can know every play call Zampese makes and know immediately if the QB called an audible? 

I understand the Monday morning QB analysis once you know the outcome, but you have no idea if that was the play call or if AD changed it or changed the number 1 target?

So you base your opinion on no facts?????????????? Makes no sense.

[Pat5775]

(08-20-2017, 02:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've often felt the playcalling (both offense and defense) had been (somewhat) dictated by someone other than the respective coordinators. No way to prove it, though.

Nope. Not really. I do remember a clip during the 2009 Hard Knocks where Marvin told brat on the headset, "Alright, I want to see 3 runs up the middle here"... From that I gathered that maybe the OC (or DC) does call the actual plays, but Marv tells them what type of play to run. Of course, that could have just been some fluky scenario where Marv was trying to kill the clock but still, I've wondered just how much control our coordinators have ever since.

[HarleyDog]

I never thought in a million years I would read any Bengals fan post in support of Brat's coaching/calling. And there you have it. We are really that bad!

[impactplaya]

(08-20-2017, 02:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Can I get your method so I can know every play call Zampese makes and know immediately if the QB called an audible? 

I understand the Monday morning QB analysis once you know the outcome, but you have no idea if that was the play call or if AD changed it or changed the number 1 target?

So you base your opinion on no facts?????????????? Makes no sense.

Here's a fact for you .no tds in 2 games for the offense 
Same skill players same qb .
Same lackluster OC. 
Meanwhile a Chiefs team with not quite the offensive skill sets we have were unstoppable on 4 straight drives last night 

[THE PISTONS]

You are kind of limited in what plays you can call when the offensive line is bad.

[Whatever]

(08-20-2017, 01:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: 3rd and 2 from the Chiefs 14
Incomplete pass to AJ Green on a route that is always a 50/50 proposition.
You got to be kidding me.Right?
I need 2 yards to convert yet I'm going all or nothing to the end zone
Meanwhile I have 2 TES that I have yet to target or a hybrid TE/FB with really good hands
Funny how the Chiefs used 6'7 Demrtrious Harris all night inside the 15 and it resulted in 2 TDS vs our smaller DBs.
3 step drop hit Eifert or Kroft on quick button hook or Boyd on a slant
Heck Josh Malone is a match-up in our advantage
Spread the Chiefs and run a delay draw For Petes sake
That one play tells me Zampese is clueless on using his own talent
I'd take Brat any day over him

Playcalling in the preseason is rarely about getting W/L's, because the win means very little.  It's more about seeing certain plays against certain looks.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-20-2017, 02:54 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I never thought in a million years I would read any Bengals fan post in support of Brat's coaching/calling. And there you have it. We are really that bad!

Mike Zimmer
Hue Jackson
Reggie Nelson
Kevin Zeitler
Andrew Whitworth
Vance Joseph
Marvin Jones
Mohamed Sanu

...have all left the building.

[McC]

Pretty big assumption to think you know what play was called. Most pass plays have more than one route in them.

I realize we're in a giant pity party at the moment but there's no need to just assume things.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2017, 01:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: 3rd and 2 from the Chiefs 14
Incomplete pass to AJ Green on a route that is always a 50/50 proposition.
You got to be kidding me.Right?
I need 2 yards to convert yet I'm going all or nothing to the end zone
Meanwhile I have 2 TES that I have yet to target or a hybrid TE/FB with really good hands
Funny how the Chiefs used 6'7 Demrtrious Harris all night inside the 15 and it resulted in 2 TDS vs our smaller DBs.
3 step drop hit Eifert or Kroft on quick button hook or Boyd on a slant
Heck Josh Malone is a match-up in our advantage
Spread the Chiefs and run a delay draw For Petes sake
That one play tells me Zampese is clueless on using his own talent
I'd take Brat any day over him

You do realize the point of pre season games it to practice things on other teams, not to win, right?

[THE PISTONS]

(08-20-2017, 03:16 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You do realize the point of pre season games it to practice things on other teams, not to win, right?

Winning and losing don't matter...but we did look terrible in this game. That matters. Things we did...did not work.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2017, 03:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Winning and losing don't matter...but we did look terrible in this game. That matters. Things we did...did not work.

Yes, but running the ball 2 yards doesn't really need practiced.  They just wanted to run a pass play....

[Derrick]

(08-20-2017, 02:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Can I get your method so I can know every play call Zampese makes and know immediately if the QB called an audible? 

I understand the Monday morning QB analysis once you know the outcome, but you have no idea if that was the play call or if AD changed it or changed the number 1 target?

So you base your opinion on no facts?????????????? Makes no sense.

What is your problem, Luvnot? You come across a bit snarky. The fact is the play did NOT work.  You might check with Zampese or Dalton and let us know the rest of the facts. Thanks.

[hoosierbengal]

(08-20-2017, 01:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: 3rd and 2 from the Chiefs 14
Incomplete pass to AJ Green on a route that is always a 50/50 proposition.
You got to be kidding me.Right?
I need 2 yards to convert yet I'm going all or nothing to the end zone
Meanwhile I have 2 TES that I have yet to target or a hybrid TE/FB with really good hands
Funny how the Chiefs used 6'7 Demrtrious Harris all night inside the 15 and it resulted in 2 TDS vs our smaller DBs.
3 step drop hit Eifert or Kroft on quick button hook or Boyd on a slant
Heck Josh Malone is a match-up in our advantage
Spread the Chiefs and run a delay draw For Petes sake
That one play tells me Zampese is clueless on using his own talent
I'd take Brat any day over him

I hate that play as well. The sidelines act as an extra defender. 1st or 2nd down maybe but not on 3rd down. I guess it's acceptable if it's like the 3rd read and nothing else is there but otherwise that type of a play drives me insane.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-20-2017, 01:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: 3rd and 2 from the Chiefs 14
Incomplete pass to AJ Green on a route that is always a 50/50 proposition.
You got to be kidding me.Right?
I need 2 yards to convert yet I'm going all or nothing to the end zone
Meanwhile I have 2 TES that I have yet to target or a hybrid TE/FB with really good hands
Funny how the Chiefs used 6'7 Demrtrious Harris all night inside the 15 and it resulted in 2 TDS vs our smaller DBs.
3 step drop hit Eifert or Kroft on quick button hook or Boyd on a slant
Heck Josh Malone is a match-up in our advantage
Spread the Chiefs and run a delay draw For Petes sake
That one play tells me Zampese is clueless on using his own talent
I'd take Brat any day over him

You are kidding right.. one play like that has you on the ledge.. have you seen other team playing calling.. Steelers are totally known for going to broke in that type of situation.. besides you are most likely wrong.. the person to be mad at would be Andy.. unless something like a screen etc.. the QB has more than one option and will sometimes read the coverage and make a decision to take a shot in end zone...