Don't be surprised if the Bengals make Dalton the scapegoat

[bengal kitten uk]

At the very least, if you have to play the quick passing game due to a porous OL, wouldn't you want the tallest QB you can find so that you don't get all these batted balls every week?

[TKUHL]

(09-11-2017, 12:27 AM)Joelist Wrote: With the OL this bad and the coaching this bad it doesn't matter who is under Center. The "savior" illusion will quickly disperse as whoever the new QB is gets pummeled just like his predecessor.

Exactly! The only way another QB comes in and looks better is if he's a running QB cause that's what he's going to be doing.

[grampahol]

This game wasn't all on Andy. A lot of it was, but the Oline did little to nothing to help with allowing 5 sacks in the game or at least that's what Laph said..I didn't keep count.
No, Andy's fine and he'll rebound IF THE oline ever gives him the chance. I'm not convinced that they're even capable at this point. 
It's REALLY time to move on from the current coaching staff at least on the O side of things and the chief giggler.. 
I wouldn't be too shocked if Andy pulled a Palmer move and either demand to be traded or sit out the season , but I don't see him having that type of personality. 
I'd love to see the players as a whole demand a new coaching staff, but again, some of these guys really do owe their careers to Lewis and probably feel too much loyalty to him especially VB.. 
I'm probably misreading the entire situation, but the coaching staff is simply incapable of producing a long term winning team. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-10-2017, 08:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If they win 4-5 games...don't be surprised if the go with McCarron and get rid of Dalton.

There were some hushed rumblings that they were keeping AJ around because they weren't confident that Dalton could win the big games.

Well...they are always looking for ways to take the onus off of poor management and not spending in free agency.

Enter Andy Dalton the villain...And AJ McCarron the savior of the Bengals.

If they do this with the QB, we will also get a new HC and OC at the very least, so I would at least approve of that maneuver. 

Folks are going to kill him for this for some time, but he is our QB and he is a good one.  Russell Wilson stunk yesterday against a lesser defense.  Think the Seahawks will get rid of him?  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-11-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If they do this with the QB, we will also get a new HC and OC at the very least, so I would at least approve of that maneuver. 

Folks are going to kill him for this for some time, but he is our QB and he is a good one.  Russell Wilson stunk yesterday against a lesser defense.  Think the Seahawks will get rid of him?  

Idk did he have 0.6 QBR?

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-11-2017, 08:52 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Idk did he have 0.6 QBR?

You can pile on all you like, but it was one loss...that is all it counts for.

He had two tipped passes for INTs, one was horrible luck, the other a great play.  The end of the game pick was just that....forcing it in to try and get something.  The horrible play by Dalton was the INT in the end zone where he threw to a completely unopen Lafell.  He should know better.  The rest of the day had dropped passes and pressure in his face.  

His QBR could have been 100 and if they lost, it would still be just a loss.

We knew it would be tougher without Burfict and the one positive is that the defense played very well.  

[rezolve11]

(09-10-2017, 08:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If they win 4-5 games...don't be surprised if the go with McCarron and get rid of Dalton.

There were some hushed rumblings that they were keeping AJ around because they weren't confident that Dalton could win the big games.

Well...they are always looking for ways to take the onus off of poor management and not spending in free agency.

Enter Andy Dalton the villain...And AJ McCarron the savior of the Bengals.

Where were these hushed rumblings?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-11-2017, 04:10 AM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: At the very least, if you have to play the quick passing game due to a porous OL, wouldn't you want the tallest QB you can find so that you don't get all these batted balls every week?

Good point.....but the playcalling isn't much better.  Like someone said in another thread, we totally ignored the weakness of the Ravens D.....slants, seams, etc over the middle.  Zampese is worse than amateur night at the Apollo.  Even if Dalton doesn't stink up the joint, I'd be willing to wager this team wouldn't have scored more than 17.  With this much alleged firepower on offense, that's totally inexcusable.

[WeezyBengal]

(09-10-2017, 08:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If they win 4-5 games...don't be surprised if the go with McCarron and get rid of Dalton.

There were some hushed rumblings that they were keeping AJ around because they weren't confident that Dalton could win the big games.

Well...they are always looking for ways to take the onus off of poor management and not spending in free agency.

Enter Andy Dalton the villain...And AJ McCarron the savior of the Bengals.

I dont know how Andy isnt upset with this organization. They know their offensive line is terrible, they then lose their two best offensive lineman and do nothing else to replace the guys they lost or help protected him. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-11-2017, 09:20 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I dont know how Andy isnt upset with this organization. They know their offensive line is terrible, they then lose their two best offensive lineman and do nothing else to replace the guys they lost or help protected him. 

I think another guy felt this way several years back....

[Au165]

Assuming Marvin is fired, the new coach will pick the QB. Dalton, McCaron, or someone in the draft/FA a new coach normally makes sure during the hiring process he has full control over his QB since it is so closely tied to his success. You never know, if we hired an offensive minded QB he could look at Andy and think he can work with him or maybe he thinks he is tapped out. It'll all come down to who ( please for the love of god let their be a who) replaces Marvin.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-11-2017, 08:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You can pile on all you like, but it was one loss...that is all it counts for.

He had two tipped passes for INTs, one was horrible luck, the other a great play.  The end of the game pick was just that....forcing it in to try and get something.  The horrible play by Dalton was the INT in the end zone where he threw to a completely unopen Lafell.  He should know better.  The rest of the day had dropped passes and pressure in his face.  

His QBR could have been 100 and if they lost, it would still be just a loss.

We knew it would be tougher without Burfict and the one positive is that the defense played very well.  

Dropped passes? The only one I even remember was Core getting his fingertips on a ball Andy overthrew. Who else dropped a good catchable ball? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-11-2017, 10:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Dropped passes? The only one I even remember was Core getting his fingertips on a ball Andy overthrew. Who else dropped a good catchable ball? 

I think Marv Jones catches that ball.....but yeah....bad day for 14.

[Marlon23]

Good Chance AJ McCarron becomes our QB.

[*ochocincos*]

I decided to look back at Dalton's scouting report when coming out of TCU. Interesting that it was pretty spot on...

Quote: Strengths: Dalton is a well prepared player that scans the whole field and makes solid decisions. Has a quick release, a strong arm and is an accurate passer, especially on the run. Has great mobility in the pocket and shows very good instincts as a runner. Extremely productive collegiate career.

Weaknesses: On the shorter side and has a three-quarter delivery which will likely result in a lot of batted passes. Deeper throws will float at times when he does not set his feet. Played in a spread offense and will have to learn a pro style system. Does not always feel pressure in the pocket which nullifies his good mobility.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andrew-dalton?id=2495143

Andy has always needed a solid offensive line to keep him protected in order to do well. It's pretty clear he's not confident in his OL and it seems that in turn causes him to make mistakes.

Dalton is the type of QB that cannot succeed without a good OL, so until that can be acquired/developed, Dalton will struggle (like we saw Sunday).

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2017, 04:55 AM)grampahol Wrote: This game wasn't all on Andy. A lot of it was, but the Oline did little to nothing to help with allowing 5 sacks in the game or at least that's what Laph said..I didn't keep count.
No, Andy's fine and he'll rebound IF THE oline ever gives him the chance. I'm not convinced that they're even capable at this point. 
It's REALLY time to move on from the current coaching staff at least on the O side of things and the chief giggler.. 
I wouldn't be too shocked if Andy pulled a Palmer move and either demand to be traded or sit out the season , but I don't see him having that type of personality. 
I'd love to see the players as a whole demand a new coaching staff, but again, some of these guys really do owe their careers to Lewis and probably feel too much loyalty to him especially VB.. 
I'm probably misreading the entire situation, but the coaching staff is simply incapable of producing a long term winning team. 

The point of the thread wasn't to blame Andy. The point of the thread is that instead of the Bengals management saying they fielded a team with the worst offensive line in the NFL and made mistakes...they'd trade Dalton and play McCarron...making Dalton the scapegoat.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If they do this with the QB, we will also get a new HC and OC at the very least, so I would at least approve of that maneuver. 

Folks are going to kill him for this for some time, but he is our QB and he is a good one.  Russell Wilson stunk yesterday against a lesser defense.  Think the Seahawks will get rid of him?  

The new HC thing is tricky. Marvin absolutely needs to go.

But, we're rebuilding and Mike Brown and management is comfortable working with Marvin. IF they hire a new HC, they'll have to 'train' that guy to work under the constraints they put in place.

I'm not so sure that Bengals management wants to go through that.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2017, 08:59 AM)rezolve11 Wrote: Where were these hushed rumblings?

From Jason La Canfora on June 12, 2017:

"I could see the Bengals going in a very different direction moving forward should 2017 resemble 2016. And if they do, they could opt to move Dalton and move forward with AJ McCarron as their QB. He's younger and cheaper and while Dalton hasn't been a problem at QB by any stretch, they structured that deal with incredibly team-friendly, pay-as-you-go options throughout. For all the rumblings about them dealing McCarron the past two offseasons, who's to say they don't let him be part of a rebuild and see what they could fetch in return for an established quarterback?"

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-qb-hot-seat-index-rating-the-14-starters-who-could-be-elsewhere-in-2018/

Furthermore Dalton is only a $2.4 million cap hit if they release or trade him after 2017.

[bengals67]

I have said this before and someone else on some other thread just said this recently.

Fans are fed up with bengals management. How in the world could they stick with Bodine and let the two best players on an average to below average o line walk in free agency.

 To win fans back, they need to fire Marvin and hire a very good new head coach with authority to pick his own staff. In short, they need to do what every other pro franchise and major college team would do under these circumstances. ( would have done at least two years ago after playoff meltdown in 2015)

The Bengals will never do this. If they ever fire Marv, they will promote from within and keep all the other coaches.

Team is going to go through another long down cycle.

Attendance will continue to dwindle.

 Bengals will take the money and move when the lease is up.

I truly wish AL and Geno could move to other teams. They do not deserve the commitment to mediocrity that is the culture of the Bengals.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2017, 10:01 AM)Au165 Wrote: Assuming Marvin is fired, the new coach will pick the QB. Dalton, McCaron, or someone in the draft/FA a new coach normally makes sure during the hiring process he has full control over his QB since it is so closely tied to his success. You never know, if we hired an offensive minded QB he could look at Andy and think he can work with him or maybe he thinks he is tapped out. It'll all come down to who ( please for the love of god let their be a who) replaces Marvin.

Dalton is what he is. He's somewhere between the 12-16th best QB in the NFL...when he has a good offensive line.

Without an offensive line and under pressure...he's going to be somewhere between the 20-25th best QB.

Really no QB is great when their line is terrible. And make no mistake, we start 4 guys who shouldn't start in the NFL on the offensive line.