Bodine

[SunsetBengal]

(09-11-2017, 11:09 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Uh, just a few years ago we "fixed" the O-line with picks in rounds 1 and 2.

Don't say that it doesn't happen, because the Bengals have done it in the past.

That being said, I still wouldn't have drafted an OT at #9.  I still wouldn't have passed on Mixon in the 2nd round or Willis in 3 or Lawson in 4.

Couple of freakin' "bargain" picks.  Look at them now, playing like crap.  I was angry the night they drafted that duo.  Would have much rather seen them take one guy that panned out, and signed a reliable, proven guy in free agency.

This team's management needs to get that "bargain" idea out of their head.  Just because they struck gold with Dunlap, Atkins and Burfict, who all fell for various reasons, does not negate the fact that most guys fall for very good reasons.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-12-2017, 09:13 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Couple of freakin' "bargain" picks.  Look at them now, playing like crap.  I was angry the night they drafted that duo.  Would have much rather seen them take one guy that panned out, and signed a reliable, proven guy in free agency.

This team's management needs to get that "bargain" idea out of their head.  Just because they struck gold with Dunlap, Atkins and Burfict, who all fell for various reasons, does not negate the fact that most guys fall for very good reasons.

Margus Hunt and Devon Still are great examples. People were shocked to see them fall to the back end of the second round, and they both turned out to be duds.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-12-2017, 09:54 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Margus Hunt and Devon Still are great examples. People were shocked to see them fall to the back end of the second round, and they both turned out to be duds.

I'd be interested in taking a look at the Bengals scouting department notes on some of these guys.  I'd like to have some insight into what they are seeing in some of these players, and what they are not seeing.  I also often wonder if they are just not that great at evaluating talent, or if the scouts' input is pushed aside come draft day?  Take OL for example.  They haven't really hit on an OL pick since Zeitler, and they took him in the 1st round.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-12-2017, 10:25 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'd be interested in taking a look at the Bengals scouting department notes on some of these guys.  I'd like to have some insight into what they are seeing in some of these players, and what they are not seeing.  I also often wonder if they are just not that great at evaluating talent, or if the scouts' input is pushed aside come draft day?  Take OL for example.  They haven't really hit on an OL pick since Zeitler, and they took him in the 1st round.

I would love to be a fly on the wall during a team's scouting process. That'd be awesome.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-12-2017, 10:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I would love to be a fly on the wall during a team's scouting process. That'd be awesome.

Yes, we know that because they have a limited scouting dept., that the coaches also act as scouts.  Are the scouts designated to particular regions of the country, and look at all players of every position in their region?  Or, are the scouts specialized by position group?  

That would actually be a great topic/question for Jim O to look into.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-12-2017, 10:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, we know that because they have a limited scouting dept., that the coaches also act as scouts.  Are the scouts designated to particular regions of the country, and look at all players of every position in their region?  Or, are the scouts specialized by position group?  

That would actually be a great topic/question for Jim O to look into.

I highly doubt the Bengals look at all players at a certain position in a particular region. There are quite a few under-the-radar players that us fans scout ourselves but hear nothing about the Bengals visiting/scouting. Now, of course they keep some stuff secret, but I think they also just simply don't have enough scouts/coaches to cover enough players.

Related note - I'm sure the Bengals could employ some of the fans on this board on the cheap (or even voluntary) to help scout prospects for them.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-12-2017, 10:38 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I highly doubt the Bengals look at all players at a certain position in a particular region. There are quite a few under-the-radar players that us fans scout ourselves but hear nothing about the Bengals visiting/scouting. Now, of course they keep some stuff secret, but I think they also just simply don't have enough scouts/coaches to cover enough players.

Related note - I'm sure the Bengals could employ some of the fans on this board on the cheap (or even voluntary) to help scout prospects for them.

Yeah, I sort of take issue with the coaches acting as scouts.  I feel like they should be more concerned with improving the talent already on their hands, and not have their attention divided by trying to identify prospective talent.  I mean, think about it.  The college season is now, the NFL season is also now.  So many players, so many games, and films don't show everything that a person would notice in live attendance.  Going to combine, orchestrated pro days, and Senior Bowl week, in my opinion, don't give as true of an insight into players as actually watching them in live games with their team.  

[*ochocincos*]

(09-12-2017, 10:50 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I sort of take issue with the coaches acting as scouts.  I feel like they should be more concerned with improving the talent already on their hands, and not have their attention divided by trying to identify prospective talent.  I mean, think about it.  The college season is now, the NFL season is also now.  So many players, so many games, and films don't show everything that a person would notice in live attendance.  Going to combine, orchestrated pro days, and Senior Bowl week, in my opinion, don't give as true of an insight into players as actually watching them in live games with their team.  

Exactly! If the Bengals had more actual scouts, they'd be able to scout college games during the regular season rather than have to do all their scouting after the fact.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-12-2017, 10:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly! If the Bengals had more actual scouts, they'd be able to scout college games during the regular season rather than have to do all their scouting after the fact.

Yes!  That is the inspiration behind all of the questions I have.  The team is going to be forthcoming, and give any real insight into how their scouting process works.  That is why I thought it might be a good topic for Jim O to look into.  It's becoming obvious that whatever methods that the Bengals are using to identify talent aren't working very well.

Of course, many fans have complained about the Bengals employing a rather abbreviated scouting department for years.  It's like they are still using a rotary desk phone, when the rest of the world is on smart phones.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2017, 07:41 AM)Bengalboy Wrote: Interesting. I haven't watched that game yet, but PFF didn't rate him very high at all.

They had him at 33.9 overall with a Pass block of 68.7 and a Run Block of 29.5. That's worse than Bodine for week 1. But in fairness other players on that Minnesota line got much better ratings so perhaps he was masked somewhat. Will have to watch that game tonight if i can.


Looking at Bodine's Rank though he was 36.2 but he was 15.5 on Pass Block and 48.9 on Run Block. 15.5 on pass block !!! that's some kind of special. And watching the game its spot on as to how bad Bodine was in pass blocking.

Eiflin had a VERY nice pull and block on a screen to Cook....and he even got some mentions from Gruden during the broadcast.  I'm sure he whiffed some being a rookie, but he looked pretty decent out there anyway.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-11-2017, 03:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: TJ Johnson isn't better than that?

He is.

[Hammerstripes]

(09-12-2017, 09:13 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Couple of freakin' "bargain" picks.  Look at them now, playing like crap.  I was angry the night they drafted that duo.  Would have much rather seen them take one guy that panned out, and signed a reliable, proven guy in free agency.

This team's management needs to get that "bargain" idea out of their head.  Just because they struck gold with Dunlap, Atkins and Burfict, who all fell for various reasons, does not negate the fact that most guys fall for very good reasons.

That's not my point (I do agree with you - I was livid when they burned a first rounder on Ced.)

The point was made that this team wouldn't draft O-line the first couple of picks.  They've done it before and I think they do it again this year.

[3wt]

(09-11-2017, 08:39 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Was just watching the Vikings on a drive and paying particular attention to their rookie center Elflein. Night and day difference compared to our 4th year center ! Tune in and watch, you'll be amazed by watching actual blocking.

I wanted that guy SO bad.   But we would have had to take him in the 2nd round instead of Mixon.  Does make you wonder if we really needed another good running back or needed to start anchoring our line...

[Bengal Dude]

I feel bad for Boling. He's basically going to go through what Bobbie Williams did in 08. A good guard put in between a terrible tackle and terrible center. He'll wind up looking really bad in the process and fans will want him gone. 

[3wt]

(09-12-2017, 04:12 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I feel bad for Boling. He's basically going to go through what Bobbie Williams did in 08. A good guard put in between a terrible tackle and terrible center. He'll wind up looking really bad in the process and fans will want him gone. 

I don't really know what to think about Boling.  He's athletic, seems to have good technique and can pull like a champ.   But he has trouble anchoring and does not seem to get a lot of push.  Kind of like Steinbach was (though not quite as good an athlete)

[3wt]

(09-11-2017, 03:23 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Depending on the draft class, this is where I'm going:

1st round:  Left Tackle
2nd round:  Center
2nd round (trade up): OG

I didn't think things would possibly be this bad, but they are.  I think we can live with Fisher and Boling on this line.  I'll hold off judgement on Fisher until the year is over, since he seems to have some promise.

I just don't think Ced is physically cut out to play in the NFL.

He doesn't seem as strong as you would like.  But I think he is not mentally cut out to play in the NFL.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-12-2017, 10:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, we know that because they have a limited scouting dept., that the coaches also act as scouts.  Are the scouts designated to particular regions of the country, and look at all players of every position in their region?  Or, are the scouts specialized by position group?  

That would actually be a great topic/question for Jim O to look into.

Yeah...and then the coaches have to develop an offense and playbook to utilize the new players. And scout. It's kind of hard to be a jack of all trades. That's why other teams have scouts.

I don't think we have enough to be Regional. Here is our Player Personnel Dept:

Duke Tobin - Director of Player Personnel
Mike Potts
Steven Radicevic
Bill Tobin
Geoff Smith
John Cooper
Andrew Johnson
Debbie LaRocco - Personnel Assistant

[Bengal Dude]

(09-12-2017, 04:19 PM)3wt Wrote: I don't really know what to think about Boling.  He's athletic, seems to have good technique and can pull like a champ.   But he has trouble anchoring and does not seem to get a lot of push.  Kind of like Steinbach was (though not quite as good an athlete)

He's definitely a poor man's Steinbach, but these kinds of players aren't a bad thing to happen. The problem is that he's arguably the best OL we have right now. He's basically in between being a role player and a star of the team.

[3wt]

(09-12-2017, 04:35 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: He's definitely a poor man's Steinbach, but these kinds of players aren't a bad thing to happen. The problem is that he's arguably the best OL we have right now. He's basically in between being a role player and a star of the team.

Yeah, sort of comforting and disturbing at the same time.

[THE PISTONS]

A role player offensive lineman is our best lineman. That says a lot.