Just Being Real!

[Nicomo Cosca]

Personally, I'm going to cling to the hope that things might get better when Marvin's gone (hopefully after this year). We can't do anything about the owners, and I kind of doubt Katie will be radically different than her dad. A better HC however might be able to get us over the hump that Marvin never could. I'd like to see him move into the FO.

[Bengalholic]

(09-12-2017, 01:03 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Who is the one hiring him?  MB gives him the wheel, and he fails, he gives him the wheel, and he fails, year after year after year.  Yet it's Marvin's fault for accepting the wheel each time it's 'handed' to him?

Stop and realize how stupid that is.

I agree that Mike is, and always has been, the root of the problem. 

However, once Marvin takes the 'wheel' and continues taking the 'wheel'...for 15 years, he also has to accept his role and responsibility in the failures that have taken place. 

[2MinutesHate]

(09-12-2017, 11:33 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You can blame Mike Brown all you want and it'll always be fair, because when it comes down to it, he's got the final say in everything.

Everything except for getting those players ready to play and calling the plays in those playoff games.  Has MB been a crappy GM in the past?  Sure.  Has he helped put together some very capable, star-studded teams?  Definitely.

Trust me.  I hate MB for the 90's and I also hate him for keeping Marvin way, way too long.  That being said, I do believe he should get some credit for the good teams that we did have and of course the blame for the shitty teams as well.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-12-2017, 11:59 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree that Mike is, and always has been, the root of the problem. 

However, once Marvin takes the 'wheel' and continues taking the 'wheel'...for 15 years, he also has to accept his role and responsibility in the failures that have taken place. 

Exactly. That's all I was saying. 

[bengalguy71]

(09-12-2017, 11:59 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree that Mike is, and always has been, the root of the problem. 

However, once Marvin takes the 'wheel' and continues taking the 'wheel'...for 15 years, he also has to accept his role and responsibility in the failures that have taken place. 

That's just it.  He's coaching with the personality and approach that he was given.  Don't think for one second he doesn't believe he's doing everything in his power to win a title.  Once the owner sees that philosophy isn't working, he has to make a change.

MB likes ML and, ML has produced teams that have had more winning seasons than losing (W-7, L-4, .500-3)


Because of that, he's afraid to make a change back to the 90s, and besides, that, MB will never hire a Sam Wyche type coach, and the only other HC that has a similar 'personality' as Lewis is Bill B. (I said 'personality', not preparation and coaching abilities)

[bengalguy71]

(09-12-2017, 10:57 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: You make it to the playoffs 7 times and lose every single time, you can't blame the Owner.  That's just not being fair at all.

Here's an honest question for you.  Could a coach like Belicheck, Reid, Garrett, McCarthy take this 2017 Bengals team past the first round of the playoffs?

I'm saying yes.

Do I think this team makes the playoffs this year?  Not a chance.

But yes, MB is to blame for keeping Marvin.  Actually, I wish Marvin would've just quit so MB wouldn't have to find the balls to fire him.

Posts like these talk in circles.  Could those coaches win with the Bengals?  OF COURSE!!!  But guess what????  MB didn't hire those guys and holds on to one that fails and continues to fail.  You don't think Lewis is doing everything he can (IN HIS MIND) to win??  Of course he is!!  

[bengalguy71]

(09-12-2017, 11:33 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mike Brown has the final say as GM. So if his team loses a playoff game because your fat slow MLB can't cover (Maualuga and those like 7 straight completions in his coverage that one year) then it's partially on him.

If his team loses a playoff game because he drafted a RB who couldn't hold onto the football when it mattered most (Hill), that's partially on him.

I mean, Mike Brown started his career as Owner/GM by getting rid of Sam Wyche and Boomer Esiason, and going on a 14 season streak of no winning seasons. He'll have been Owner/GM for 27 years once this year has passed, and his team has never won a playoff game, the only team to not do that in that time span. Let me remind you that the team won a playoff game the year before Mike Brown took over, and was in the SB 3 years before Mike Brown took over.

You want to say it's Marvin's fault? Sure, it is his fault that he couldn't coach a team out of a wet paper bag when the pressure is on, but guess who hired Marvin, and keeps re-signing Marvin? That's right, Mike Brown.

You can blame Mike Brown all you want and it'll always be fair, because when it comes down to it, he's got the final say in everything.

This logic is so easy to understand TLL, and I can't see why most in here can't see and agree???

[Shake n Blake]

The Brown family will always be running things, but there is hope. Mike is 82 years old and won't live forever. I would never wish death upon the man, just saying there will come a time when he won't be at the top.

Marvin Lewis and Paul A won't last forever in their jobs. It may not seem that way now, but within the next 20 years, a lot could be different. After reboot 7.0, I think Marv and Paul will head off into the sunset.

I have zero animosity towards Andy though. The dude has balled out for us over 6 years. Broken numerous records and been a huge part of the most successful regular-season run in Bengals history. He's been sacked 47 times in his last 17 games. He's never had a run game worth a shit. His o-coordinator is in over his head. What do people expect? At this point, I hope Andy gets out and goes to New Orleans, Houston or Denver and makes everyone that blamed him look stupid.

[Bengalholic]

(09-12-2017, 12:29 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: That's just it.  He's coaching with the personality and approach that he was given.  Don't think for one second he doesn't believe he's doing everything in his power to win a title.  Once the owner sees that philosophy isn't working, he has to make a change.

MB likes ML and, ML has produced teams that have had more winning seasons than losing (W-7, L-4, .500-3)


Because of that, he's afraid to make a change back to the 90s, and besides, that, MB will never hire a Sam Wyche type coach, and the only other HC that has a similar 'personality' as Lewis is Bill B. (I said 'personality', not preparation and coaching abilities)

I absolutely believe that Marvin thinks he's doing everything he can to win a title. However, it hasn't worked out. Not only has he not won a title, he hasn't even won a single playoff game. He's failed at winning a title 14 different times.

To try to limit or excuse his part in those failures is silly at this point. He knew exactly what he was getting into, who Mike was, and what his circumstance entailed when he re-signed in 2011, after already being here for 8 years...and each time he has signed an extension since. Not only that, but he is as ingrained and involved in this franchise as it gets, and in his own words, 'works closely with Mike and Katie' in the day to day operations and decision making. Hell, he's practically part of the family at this point.

Marvin is putting these rosters and coaching staffs together, and they are failing to get the job done, as far as end results. While Mike deserves plenty of blame for the overall failures and shortcomings of this franchise over the past 26+ years...Marvin deserves his fair share of criticism for the 14+ years that he's been a part of it...especially since 2011, when he became much more involved from an organizational standpoint.

The fact that Mike keeps rewarding Marvin with extensions, regardless of the postseason failures, doesn't excuse Marvin for the postseason failures. Two separate problems, that produce the same result. A head coach that can't get the job done + an owner that won't do anything about it = no accountability.

[Hammerstripes]

I would have blamed the owner for a long time, but now it's kinda tough.

For a couple of years we had one of the best and deepest rosters in the league. We still couldn't win. It's all on the coaches at this point.

[bengalguy71]

(09-12-2017, 02:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I would have blamed the owner for a long time, but now it's kinda tough.

For a couple of years we had one of the best and deepest rosters in the league.  We still couldn't win.  It's all on the coaches at this point.

   UNBELIEVABLE!!

[bengalguy71]

(09-12-2017, 02:24 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I absolutely believe that Marvin thinks he's doing everything he can to win a title. However, it hasn't worked out. Not only has he not won a title, he hasn't even won a single playoff game. He's failed at winning a title 14 different times.

 This goes beyond unbelievable!  Your post should top right here.
The rest is redundant because every other owner in the NFL would not keep riding a worthless horse.
Marvin believes he is doing everything to win, but it ain't happening, but yet you blame Lewis because Brown continues to hire and ride the nag, and then blame the nag because's he's a nag and isn't winning??????
I am a race car driver (MB) and I like my VW bug (ML)!  I want to win a racing title (SB) but don't want to get rid of my VW so I will put the best engine, suspension, tires, and design (players) I can in it.  It's the VWs fault that I can't win a racing title, because it has the best design money can buy, but I like the VW so I will keep it and hope it does better race after race, and year after year!!

[Bengalholic]

(09-12-2017, 02:51 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote:  This goes beyond unbelievable!  Your post should top right here.
The rest is redundant because every other owner in the NFL would not keep riding a worthless horse.
Marvin believes he is doing everything to win, but it ain't happening, but yet you blame Lewis because Brown continues to hire and ride the nag, and then blame the nag because's he's a nag and isn't winning??????
I am a race car driver (MB) and I like my VW bug (ML)!  I want to win a racing title (SB) but don't want to get rid of my VW so I will put the best engine, suspension, tires, and design (players) I can in it.  It's the VWs fault that I can't win a racing title, because it has the best design money can buy, but I like the VW so I will keep it and hope it does better race after race, and year after year!!

Yeah brother, you're race car analogy doesn't really hold up. Marvin is not an inanimate object, incapable of making decisions.

Marvin chose to re-sign here in 2011, and has chosen to sign every extension since then. He knew exactly what he was getting into and decided he was, and continues to be, the man for the job. Unfortunately, he hasn't gotten the job done as far as the postseason is concerned.

If you knowingly go to work for, and continue to re-up with, a crappy boss...and you do a crappy job for that crappy boss, and he refuses to fire you...it still doesn't excuse the fact that you did a crappy job. It means you're both doing a crappy job.

Like I said, it definitely starts with Mike, but Marvin continues to choose to be the HC of this franchise. With that choice, comes fair (and deserving) criticism. The fact that Mike is too stubborn, or clueless, to fire Marvin...doesn't mitigate Marvin's own failures.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-12-2017, 02:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I would have blamed the owner for a long time, but now it's kinda tough.

For a couple of years we had one of the best and deepest rosters in the league.  We still couldn't win.  It's all on the coaches at this point.

And WHO is responsible for retaining a coach that is 0-5, 0-6, then 0-7 in the playoffs???

Hint: The Owner.

No matter how you look at this, it falls on the Owner even if Marvin Lewis is the problem.

[GodFather]

(09-12-2017, 12:37 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Since 1991 this team has had:

10 Starting QBs

5 Head Coaches

1 Owner

0 Playoff victories in 7 attempts

You figure out the common denominator and stop blaming Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis!

I hate when people post their fears that the 90's Bengals will come back if Marvin leaves. Look at the other side of it, we could actually be viable and be a team that could be a contender. You have to try to better the team. We've been down the Marvin road for years, its a dead end. 

Cause at the end of the day Marvin Lewis hasn't gotten any further in the playoffs then the worst Bengal teams of the 90's.

You also can't blame Mike Brown for the playoff loses Marvin had. It was all on Marvin and being outreached and lack of prepping his team.

[Bengalholic]

For clarification on what I'm trying to say in my responses here:

Mike and Marvin both need to go. They are both part of the problem, and neither is accountable.

Bottom line, for now - we're stuck with both.

[bengalguy71]

(09-12-2017, 03:38 PM)GodFather Wrote: I hate when people post their fears that the 90's Bengals will come back if Marvin leaves. Look at the other side of it, we could actually be viable and be a team that could be a contender. You have to try to better the team. We've been down the Marvin road for years, its a dead end. 

Cause at the end of the day Marvin Lewis hasn't gotten any further in the playoffs then the worst Bengal teams of the 90's.

You also can't blame Mike Brown for the playoff loses Marvin had. It was all on Marvin and being outreached and lack of prepping his team.

Come on GF!  What in this post suggests that I am afraid of the 90s reappearing??  You're smarter than this!!  The only one afraid of the 90s is MB, which is WHY he's held on to Marvin for so long!!

AGAIN, I will say, you can't keep riding a nag who's doing the best he is capable of doing and expect different results.

[bengalguy71]

(09-12-2017, 03:12 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah brother, you're race car analogy doesn't really hold up. Marvin is not an inanimate object, incapable of making decisions.

Marvin chose to re-sign here in 2011, and has chosen to sign every extension since then. He knew exactly what he was getting into and decided he was, and continues to be, the man for the job. Unfortunately, he hasn't gotten the job done as far as the postseason is concerned.

If you knowingly go to work for, and continue to re-up with, a crappy boss...and you do a crappy job for that crappy boss, and he refuses to fire you...it still doesn't excuse the fact that you did a crappy job. It means you're both doing a crappy job.

Like I said, it definitely starts with Mike, but Marvin continues to choose to be the HC of this franchise. With that choice, comes fair (and deserving) criticism. The fact that Mike is too stubborn, or clueless, to fire Marvin...doesn't mitigate Marvin's own failures.

I'm done with this nonsense because it's become foolishness.  I'm going to take the high road like Wyche's Warriors and so many else have done and know who has control of this team and leave it at that!  

[Pat5775]

So... What exactly is the argument here? I'm seeing a lot of talking in circles here...

Bottom line is, does anybody really think Marvin isn't a huge part of the problem here? Nobody can be that blind.

Honestly, they both deserve to be fired. But obviously, one can't be fired. We're stuck with Mike in some capacity for the rest of his life. Marvin has proven countless times on gameday that he's a mediocre-at-best coach. Mike is certainly not holding him back when it comes to performances on the field. Marv has had plenty of teams loaded with talent and still has failing grades all over the place when it counts (playoff, Primetime and Steeler games). That's 14 years worth of head coaching, with lots of roster turnover, plenty of different coordinators, but the same shit in the same scenarios countless times.

If I had my choice and I could only part ways with one of them, I'd honestly get rid of Marv before Mike. Mike has undoubtedly taken a step back. How much of a step back he's taken is debatable, but he's stepped away enough for us to have acquired plenty of talent on the field (something that was sorely lacking in the 90's). We have acquired plenty of pieces to the puzzle under Mike, but coaching is obviously unable to put the pieces together. I'd LOVE to see what just about anyone else could do with this roster (and an improved oline, of course).

[Bengalholic]

(09-12-2017, 03:59 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: I'm done with this nonsense because it's become foolishness.  I'm going to take the high road like Wyche's Warriors and so many else have done and know who has control of this team and leave it at that!  

Yes, 'The Family' - Mike, Katie, Troy, Pete, Paul Jr...and Marvin.