Since 1991 this team has had:

10 Starting QBs

5 Head Coaches

1 Owner

0 Playoff victories in 7 attempts

You figure out the common denominator and stop blaming Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis!

We all know who the problem is, it just happens to be the one person who can't be replaced. Why even complain or worry about it anymore? It won't change.

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(09-12-2017, 12:42 AM)Storer50 Wrote: We all know who the problem is, it just happens to be the one person who can't be replaced. Why even complain or worry about it anymore? It won't change.

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Pretty much the point S.  I just get so weary hearing the same old same old pretending something different will happen 'if only' so and so was playing instead of so and so.

(09-12-2017, 12:37 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Since 1991 this team has had:

10 Starting QBs

5 Head Coaches

1 Owner

0 Playoff victories in 7 attempts

You figure out the common denominator and stop blaming Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis!

Marvin should get plenty of the blame. Mike Brown has given him teams capable of winning. 

(09-12-2017, 12:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Marvin should get plenty of the blame. Mike Brown has given him teams capable of winning. 

I agree.  

Lack of discipline has cost us, including the playoff game two seasons ago with Hill fumbling and then Jones getting the personal foul that made it a lot easier of a field goal.

Lack of discipline also cost us with lots of mistakes against Baltimore yesterday.

Don't get me wrong because Mike Brown could do a hell of a lot more as owner to give us better teams that are better able to compete (practice facility, medical facility, etc), but we should have been able to win with the talent we've had over the years.

I think you see it like I do. Marvin is done after this year. It's not the fans who get him out, it's the media and sponsors. They will get a new coach from some scrap heap somewhere, and try to convince us all that he is the savior of Bengals football. They did it with Shula, same name must be great. Lebeau, genius of the steelers defense. Marvin Lewis, leader of the greatest d in history. What is the excuse next? Tommy Tubberville, can actually coach and doesn't have to recruit? Brian Kelly, the feel good "homecoming" story? Maybe Jim tressel just for funsies.

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(09-12-2017, 12:56 AM)Storer50 Wrote: I think you see it like I do. Marvin is done after this year. It's not the fans who get him out, it's the media and sponsors. They will get a new coach from some scrap heap somewhere, and try to convince us all that he is the savior of Bengals football. They did it with Shula, same name must be great. Lebeau, genius of the steelers defense. Marvin Lewis, leader of the greatest d in history. What is the excuse next? Tommy Tubberville, can actually coach and doesn't have to recruit? Brian Kelly, the feel good "homecoming" story? Maybe Jim tressel just for funsies.

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We are waiting for one Bill Belichick's sons to be old enough to take over the team...that's all.

(09-12-2017, 12:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Marvin should get plenty of the blame. Mike Brown has given him teams capable of winning. 

Who is the one hiring him?  MB gives him the wheel, and he fails, he gives him the wheel, and he fails, year after year after year.  Yet it's Marvin's fault for accepting the wheel each time it's 'handed' to him?

Stop and realize how stupid that is.

I'm not even sure MB exist anymore, if he does he has to be tied up in Marvins closet.

(09-12-2017, 01:03 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Who is the one hiring him?  MB gives him the wheel, and he fails, he gives him the wheel, and he fails, year after year after year.  Yet it's Marvin's fault for accepting the wheel each time it's 'handed' to him?

Stop and realize how stupid that is.

Of course Mike Brown should have canned him by now, I never said it's 100% on Marvin Lewis, but let's not act like Brown has given him a bunch of scrubs year after year. A better coach would have at least been able to win a couple playoff games with some of those teams. Mike Brown is loyal to a fault if he likes you though,  Piano Man, Marvin, Pacman, etc.

We'll never know, of course, but I certainly wonder if Mike Brown didn't have a big hand in losing Whitworth. He's good at setting a limit and stubbornly clinging to it, without negotiating beyond it.

To me, with the offensive line in trouble, we should have had enough give to retain the best left tackle we've had since Munoz.

Also, what would you expect to happen when you have an offensive line that struggled all last season, and then let your two best guys leave in free agency, with no effort to bring in new talent.

That's where I wonder if Mike still hurts us.

(09-12-2017, 03:18 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Of course Mike Brown should have canned him by now, I never said it's 100% on Marvin Lewis, but let's not act like Brown has given him a bunch of scrubs year after year. A better coach would have at least been able to win a couple playoff games with some of those teams. Mike Brown is loyal to a fault if he likes you though,  Piano Man, Marvin, Pacman, etc.

MB will not hire the kind of coach with the fire and intensity folks clamor for.

In fact he fired the ONLY coach like that he's had since he took over. (Wyche)

It was funny that when we had 2 great drafts in a row with Dalton/Green and Atkins/Dunlap that people speculated that Katie was running things or Marvin or Duke Tobin, etc.

We all say the draft is a crapshoot. AJ Green was a no-brainer pick. It was either Dalton, Kaepernick, or Mallet with that pick as Palmer left and we needed a QB. Dunlap was projected to be a 1st Round pick so he was kind of a no-brainer. Atkins was a find.

Perhaps we just got lucky? As I detailed, was drafting Green luck? The best thing we did with him was not trade the pick to Atlanta for a bunch of picks. As I said at the time we needed an impact player.

(09-12-2017, 12:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Marvin should get plenty of the blame. Mike Brown has given him teams capable of winning. 

To some extent, but it's also Brown's responsibility to hold Marvin and the other coaches/players accountable when they continue to falter over long stretches of time.

(09-12-2017, 01:03 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Who is the one hiring him?  MB gives him the wheel, and he fails, he gives him the wheel, and he fails, year after year after year.  Yet it's Marvin's fault for accepting the wheel each time it's 'handed' to him?

Stop and realize how stupid that is.

PLUS, IF Marvin is to blame...it's ultimately the Owner's responsibility to remove him. Not too many coaches would be 0-7 in the playoffs and retain their job.

But then again, our owner and de facto GM hasn't won a playoff game in 26 years.

(09-12-2017, 09:31 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: MB will not hire the kind of coach with the fire and intensity folks clamor for.

In fact he fired the ONLY coach like that he's had since he took over. (Wyche)

Not sure about that. Tom Coughlin was really close to getting the job here, and he's exactly the kind of couch people are clamoring for. I've heard Marvin was more Katie's guy, but I have no idea if there's any truth to that or not. 

You make it to the playoffs 7 times and lose every single time, you can't blame the Owner. That's just not being fair at all.

Here's an honest question for you. Could a coach like Belicheck, Reid, Garrett, McCarthy take this 2017 Bengals team past the first round of the playoffs?

I'm saying yes.

Do I think this team makes the playoffs this year? Not a chance.

But yes, MB is to blame for keeping Marvin. Actually, I wish Marvin would've just quit so MB wouldn't have to find the balls to fire him.

(09-12-2017, 12:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Marvin should get plenty of the blame. Mike Brown has given him teams capable of winning. 

True that....but then again, it's Mike who keeps this bunch as the staff.....

Marv has proven that he is a mediocre head coach. No other organization would have kept someone for 15 years having lost 7 playoff games and regularly losing twice a year to our biggest rival.

No other NFL team would have kept Marv with his coaching record after the 2015 Steeler meltdown

But it is not just Marv.

Marv needs to go and Mike Brown needs to hire a new head coach who can hire his own staff, bring in new ideas, put everyone's job in jeopardy, hold everyone accountable, and demand excellence.

No other organization in pro sports, major college sports, or even a big company in the private sector would have come close to accepting the mediocrity we have seen for 15 years ( and how many years before that after Paul Brown died) without bringing in a new leader , with new ideas, and the authority to hire his own managers.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but the Brown family is never going to take the steps needed to clean house, fans will continue to be alienated , and the team will go for the money and greener financial pastures when the stadium lease is up.

(09-12-2017, 10:57 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: You make it to the playoffs 7 times and lose every single time, you can't blame the Owner.  That's just not being fair at all.

Here's an honest question for you.  Could a coach like Belicheck, Reid, Garrett, McCarthy take this 2017 Bengals team past the first round of the playoffs?

I'm saying yes.

Do I think this team makes the playoffs this year?  Not a chance.

But yes, MB is to blame for keeping Marvin.  Actually, I wish Marvin would've just quit so MB wouldn't have to find the balls to fire him.

Mike Brown has the final say as GM. So if his team loses a playoff game because your fat slow MLB can't cover (Maualuga and those like 7 straight completions in his coverage that one year) then it's partially on him.

If his team loses a playoff game because he drafted a RB who couldn't hold onto the football when it mattered most (Hill), that's partially on him.

I mean, Mike Brown started his career as Owner/GM by getting rid of Sam Wyche and Boomer Esiason, and going on a 14 season streak of no winning seasons. He'll have been Owner/GM for 27 years once this year has passed, and his team has never won a playoff game, the only team to not do that in that time span. Let me remind you that the team won a playoff game the year before Mike Brown took over, and was in the SB 3 years before Mike Brown took over.

You want to say it's Marvin's fault? Sure, it is his fault that he couldn't coach a team out of a wet paper bag when the pressure is on, but guess who hired Marvin, and keeps re-signing Marvin? That's right, Mike Brown.

You can blame Mike Brown all you want and it'll always be fair, because when it comes down to it, he's got the final say in everything.