Guards and Centers

[THE PISTONS]

On the Sunday Night Broadcast last night they talked about how Thomas Dmitrof who is Atlanta's GM never saw value in spending money on Guards and Centers. Then he signed Alex Mack who is a Top 5 Center and maybe the best Center in the NFL...and how that totally changed their offense and opened things up that they didn't know was possible.

He totally changed his philosophy of how valuable those positions are.

Until the Bengals start investing in those positions...we aren't going to be able to run the ball consistently. Investing only in Tackles is antiquated as defenses move around Ends and Rushers to send pressure inside. You don't just have to protect your QB's blindside.

Having a great line is a gamechanger...look at Dallas.

Our offensive line has to have the lowest salary invested in it of any team in the NFL. If not the lowest, we have to be at the bottom.

The result: A Terrible offense that has good skill players. A poor offensive line was the hallmark of the 90's for the Bengals.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(09-18-2017, 10:46 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: On the Sunday Night Broadcast last night they talked about how Thomas Dmitrof who is Atlanta's GM never saw value in spending money on Guards and Centers. Then he signed Alex Mack who is a Top 5 Center and maybe the best Center in the NFL...and how that totally changed their offense and opened things up that they didn't know was possible.

He totally changed his philosophy of how valuable those positions are.

Until the Bengals start investing in those positions...we aren't going to be able to run the ball consistently. Investing only in Tackles is antiquated as defenses move around Ends and Rushers to send pressure inside. You don't just have to protect your QB's blindside.

Having a great line is a gamechanger...look at Dallas.

Our offensive line has to have the lowest salary invested in it of any team in the NFL. If not the lowest, we have to be at the bottom.

The result: A Terrible offense that has good skill players. A poor offensive line was the hallmark of the 90's for the Bengals.

Mike Brown will never get it. Too stubborn in his ways to see this. You dont draft a RG like Zeitler develop him into a damn fine RG only to let him slip away in free agency.

[THE PISTONS]

Yes...I still believe tagging 1 of Whitworth or Zeitler was the move.

We had the cap space to do it.

And with the salary cap rising $10 million a year EACH YEAR in the NFL...$12 million this year is like $8 million in 2012. IF I told you in 2012 that we could sign a borderline All-Pro Guard for $8 million...would you do it? Probably.

[packerbacker]

Man we got our butts whipped last night. I'm not too positive going forward about the Packers either.

[Yojimbo]

(09-18-2017, 11:15 AM)packerbacker Wrote: Man we got our butts whipped last night. I'm not too positive going forward about the Packers either.

Well their Oline was in shambles, on the road, against a great pass rushing team.

If it had been in GB with both starting tackles out there and a healthy Nelson and Cobb things could have gone differently.

[*Go Cards*]

(09-18-2017, 10:46 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: On the Sunday Night Broadcast last night they talked about how Thomas Dmitrof who is Atlanta's GM never saw value in spending money on Guards and Centers. Then he signed Alex Mack who is a Top 5 Center and maybe the best Center in the NFL...and how that totally changed their offense and opened things up that they didn't know was possible.

He totally changed his philosophy of how valuable those positions are.

Until the Bengals start investing in those positions...we aren't going to be able to run the ball consistently. Investing only in Tackles is antiquated as defenses move around Ends and Rushers to send pressure inside. You don't just have to protect your QB's blindside.

Having a great line is a gamechanger...look at Dallas.

Our offensive line has to have the lowest salary invested in it of any team in the NFL. If not the lowest, we have to be at the bottom.

The result: A Terrible offense that has good skill players. A poor offensive line was the hallmark of the 90's for the Bengals.

Agree 100%

But interior OL players do not sell jerseys for MB. In his mind this is business. 

In reality a great OL leads to solid seasons and deep post season runs possibly ending with SB. 

Flash works early in the year, get to the frigid weather that comes playoff time and you need an OL and DL the can force your will on the other team. 

Which brings way more revenue in long run than what those few jerseys will bring. Plus respect which one would think would be priceless to him. 

[packerbacker]

(09-18-2017, 11:47 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Well their Oline was in shambles, on the road, against a great pass rushing team.

If it had been in GB with both starting tackles out there and a healthy Nelson and Cobb things could have gone differently.

I don't know. Last year they beat us 33-32 in the regular season by 1 point in Atlanta then blew us out in the Championship game 44-21 in Atlanta again. I'm starting to hate those guys lol.

[lone bengal]

We could have signed decent guards like Chance Warmack ( Eagles) or Ronald Leary ( Broncos) for way less money then Zeitler. Instead of signing Smith who 1. Hasn't played guard since high school 2. Is fat and out of shape 3. Injury Prone 4. Been on the decline for 3 plus years 5. Never wanted to play guard in the first place and hasn't since he arrived here.

[THE PISTONS]

I'd love for us to sign Rodger Saffold. I think that would REALLY help us.

Maybe drafting Price signals a philosophy shift for the Bengals.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Mike Brown might not have understood the value of acquiring great offensive linemen but his father Paul Brown certainly did. Paul Brown and Vince Lombardi basically invented modern blocking techniques. Remember how Paul used to draft offensive linemen first in Cleveland and then in Cincinnati? First, he valued intellect above all because line play is hard! Blocking is intellectual, not just physical. Timing is part of it too.

If Zac Taylor wants to run any variation of the Rams' playbook, he'll need a much better -- and smarter -- offensive line.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 05:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Mike Brown might not have understood the value of acquiring great offensive linemen but his father Paul Brown certainly did.  Paul Brown and Vince Lombardi basically invented modern blocking techniques.  Remember how Paul used to draft offensive linemen first in Cleveland and then in Cincinnati?  First, he valued intellect above all because line play is hard!  Blocking is intellectual, not just physical.  Timing is part of it too.  

If Zac Taylor wants to run any variation of the Rams' playbook, he'll need a much better -- and smarter -- offensive line.

Yep. The Rams have a Top 5 line. The Bengals have a bottom 5 line.

People bash Cleveland for signing Zeitler, but they have a Top 5-10 offensive line. That's going to help them win.

[t3r3e3]

(03-03-2019, 05:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd love for us to sign Rodger Saffold. I think that would REALLY help us.

Maybe drafting Price signals a philosophy shift for the Bengals.

Bengals aren’t likely to pay the average salary that Saffold will command. It’s possible, just not likely given the team’s history.

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2017, 10:46 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our offensive line has to have the lowest salary invested in it of any team in the NFL. If not the lowest, we have to be at the bottom.

Mike Brown is willing to spend money on the O-line.  Here is where the Bengals rank in cap space used on O-line since 2013 (as far back as spotrac goes)

'13.....11th
'14.....17th
'15..... 7th
'16..... 9th
'17.....31st
'18.....20th

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 09:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown is willing to spend money on the O-line.  Here is where the Bengals rank in cap space used on O-line since 2013 (as far back as spotrac goes)

'13.....11th
'14.....17th
'15..... 7th
'16..... 9th
'17.....31st
'18.....20th

You responded to a post from 2017. My statement would have been correct then.

But, yes when we had Whitworth were did spend more on line. For some reason in 2017, they reversed that trent.

[BengalChris]

(03-03-2019, 09:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown is willing to spend money on the O-line.  Here is where the Bengals rank in cap space used on O-line since 2013 (as far back as spotrac goes)

'13.....11th
'14.....17th
'15..... 7th
'16..... 9th
'17.....31st
'18.....20th

31st in the league in 2017. Wow! That's some big spending on the OL.

Then in 2018 the team wastes money on the OL by keeping Ogbuehi and Fisher on the roster. Does wasting money on players who aren't worth a turd count as spending? It shouldn't cause those two eat roster spots that could have gone to players who actually contributed to the team's play on the field. Plus, we had to bring in Andre off the street because of the turds.

 

[Joelist]

If we think we are getting our RT in the draft then Saffold by all means. Yes he's a LG and Boling is there but either he or Boling would go to RG and then we draft a RT.

[Hammerstripes]

With all of the shotgun offenses that teams run now, the interior pass rush is the most important thing in the game.

You have to have it on defense to get consistent pressure and you have to have the interior linemen to stop it. It's more important now than it ever has been. The teams that don't value the interior line will always struggle.

[fredtoast]

(03-03-2019, 10:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You responded to a post from 2017. My statement would have been correct then.

Then you should not have brought it back up.

My point is that Mike Brown is willing to spend on the O-line.  He just does not always spend it properly.  When Levi Jones and Willie Anderson got their new contracts in '05 they were the highest paid team of tackles in the league.  He also paid Bobbie Williams, Whitworth, and Boling well.

Ob the other hand he gave a franchise tag contract to Stacy Andrews and kept Ogbuehi around a year too long.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-04-2019, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then you should not have brought it back up.

My point is that Mike Brown is willing to spend on the O-line.  He just does not always spend it properly.  When Levi Jones and Willie Anderson got their new contracts in '05 they were the highest paid team of tackles in the league.  He also paid Bobbie Williams, Whitworth, and Boling well.

Ob the other hand he gave a franchise tag contract to Stacy Andrews and kept Ogbuehi around a year too long.

He didn't spend on Zeitler or Whitworth.

[*ochocincos*]

Not to mention that a really good IOL can allow the QB to step up in the pocket if/when pressure comes from the outside.