End the rb trio committee for Mixon

[Millhouse]

I wasn't the biggest fan of the Mixon selection in the draft.
I have been a Gio advocate for years to get more playing time.
I thought Hill should have been let go after he fumbled away the win against Pitt in the playoff game.

Going into week three with a 0-2 start, I am now in the opinion that it is time to start Mixon and give him the bulk of the carries making him the new workhorse. Let him have 20-30 carries, bring Gio in on 3rd and longs, then maybe use Hill if there is a short yardage situation.

A running back needs consistent touches to get a feel for the guys up front blocking for them. And though I was hesitant to want Mixon to start early on the year due to his inexperience, I'm not anymore. Let the kid play and see what he has. And using Gio more sparingly with fresher legs will maximize his runs as well.

[Marlon23]

(09-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I wasn't the biggest fan of the Mixon selection in the draft.
I have been a Gio advocate for years to get more playing time.
I thought Hill should have been let go after he fumbled away the win against Pitt in the playoff game.

Going into week three with a 0-2 start, I am now in the opinion that it is time to start Mixon and give him the bulk of the carries making him the new workhorse. Let him have 20-30 carries, bring Gio in on 3rd and longs, then maybe use Hill if there is a short yardage situation.

A running back needs consistent touches to get a feel for the guys up front blocking for them. And though I was hesitant to want Mixon to start early on the year due to his inexperience, i'n mot anymore. Let the kid play and see what he has. And using Gio more sparingly with fresher legs will maximize his runs as well.

I agree, they must get a feel for the game 100% correct.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

He can't get 20-30 carries if he's not productive enough to get first downs. The Bengals RBs had 20 carries Week 2. Those 20 RB carries went for 63 yards, or 3.15 YPC.

Mixon has had 17 carries this season so far...
-7 have gone for 4 or more yards (long of 8)
-2 have gone for 3 yards
-2 have gone for 2 yards
-6 have gone for 1 or less yards

That's 7 successful carries (4+ yards) vs 10 unsuccessful carries (3- yards). He's sitting on a 2.6 YPC right now and he's not really doing well in the passing game either with 4 catches for 20 yards (5.0 AVG).

Keep in mind that Giovani Bernard has 4.2 YPC and 18.3 AVG right now.

- - - - - - - - - -

That said, I do agree with you that there needs to be a lot more focus of touches on one RB. I think RB by committee rarely ever works. The part where we disagree though is who should get the increase in touches. I am not so sure that it's Mixon. He's honestly not shown much yet. He has 0 plays of 10+ yards in 21 touches.

[THE PISTONS]

You guys must really want to ruin Mixons career. We have a TERRIBLE run blocking offensive line. He's going to develop bad habits and become tentative running behind this line.

[Millhouse]

(09-18-2017, 03:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That said, I do agree with you that there needs to be a lot more focus of touches on one RB. I think RB by committee rarely ever works. The part where we disagree though is who should get the increase in touches.  I am not so sure that it's Mixon. He's honestly not shown much yet. He has 0 plays of 10+ yards in 21 touches.

Then go with Gio as the primary back, let Mixon learn nothing sitting on the bench, and use Hill sparingly then. 

The committee approach, I just dont get it because a running back needs to get more touches as the game goes on to learn the nuances of the oline and the d they are blocking. I know its a pretty generic argument to make to end the committee, but this is one of those things where a more simple, old fashioned approach so to speak, is the right way to go imo.

[Millhouse]

(09-18-2017, 03:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You guys must really want to ruin Mixons career. We have a TERRIBLE run blocking offensive line. He's going to develop bad habits and become tentative running behind this line.

Sitting him on the bench waiting for a good o-line can also ruin his career. 

IF he is as good as a lot of people make him out to be, then he will learn even with this line and will be able to make plays. Do a 6 lineman approach at times, run screens with him, run plays to help reduce more defense in the box.  

Last but not least, if he doesn't do that well behind this line, it should cause major changes on the o-line from firing PA to getting better lineman. 

Overall though my overall point is ending this committee approach. But I am in favor of giving the load to Mixon as well. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-18-2017, 04:03 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Then go with Gio as the primary back, let Mixon learn nothing sitting on the bench, and use Hill sparingly then. 

The committee approach, I just dont get it because a running back needs to get more touches as the game goes on to learn the nuances of the oline and the d they are blocking. I know its a pretty generic argument to make to end the committee, but this is one of those things where a more simple, old fashioned approach so to speak, is the right way to go imo.

I mean, do RBs really have anything they can learn during games? In the offseason they can learn better pass protection and such, but for the most part RBs are what they are when drafted. They're one of the most Day 1-ready position in the league. They either have good vision, or don't. They can either make people miss, or they can't. Either they can outrun the LB or they can't. Either they have good hands, or they don't. Etc.. not much of that really seems teachable/learnable.

The only exception I can think of for a big change from what they are is if they change body types after being drafted. Like how Ray Rice and Giovani Bernard both put on 10lbs of muscle after their rookie years, and Le'Veon Bell slimmed down by losing some weight and getting some leaner muscles.

I'd go Gio for 80% of the touches, Mixon for 15% as a breather, and Hill on the 5% that are &1s and goal line situations. Gio's got the best hands and pass blocking/blitz pickup of the group so he was always going to be out there on most 3rd downs, hurry up offense drives, and drives at the end of the half and the end of the game. If Gio scuffles and Mixon makes the most of his touches, then maybe consider switching them at some time... but that's how I would start.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I wasn't the biggest fan of the Mixon selection in the draft.
I have been a Gio advocate for years to get more playing time.
I thought Hill should have been let go after he fumbled away the win against Pitt in the playoff game.

Going into week three with a 0-2 start, I am now in the opinion that it is time to start Mixon and give him the bulk of the carries making him the new workhorse. Let him have 20-30 carries, bring Gio in on 3rd and longs, then maybe use Hill if there is a short yardage situation.

A running back needs consistent touches to get a feel for the guys up front blocking for them. And though I was hesitant to want Mixon to start early on the year due to his inexperience, I'm not anymore. Let the kid play and see what he has. And using Gio more sparingly with fresher legs will maximize his runs as well.

Maybe not near that 30 mark, but 15-25 should be good. Totally agree with the usage of Gio and Hill.

[Millhouse]

(09-18-2017, 04:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean, do RBs really have anything they can learn during games? 

Yes. They learn the speed of a NFL defense, something that can't be replicated in practice with modern day rules. And it is nothing like he faced in college. 

[BengalsBong]

To use three running backs at the same time you need a real good oline. Which we don't have the only way to improve that is bring in guys sitting on the couch. I don't think they will bring in anyone new to play so we must go with what we got till the end of the year personal wise. I don't think we have better options on the team to replace the oline coach so that must wait till the end of the year also as well as head coach if that change happens. Our only option is to simplify the blocking scheme don't pull your oline players letting JJ Watt go unblocked to the QB. Every time Dalton gets pressure in his face he throws the ball away teach him to throw Screen passes or quit using them.

[Joelist]

Both RBs and QBs share a need to get into a rhythm to be effective. RBs get into it by having carries and blocking so they can at least get to the LOS before encountering defenders. . QBs need reps and blocking so they can get properly synced with their receivers.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-18-2017, 04:26 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Yes. They learn the speed of a NFL defense, something that can't be replicated in practice with modern day rules. And it is nothing like he faced in college. 

Ehhh.. I just look at all the successful RBs rookie season and it doesn't seem like any of them had to learn anything their rookie year.

Jim Brown: 4.7 YPC
Adrian Peterson: 5.6 YPC
Steven Jackson: 5.0 YPC
Eric Dickerson: 4.6 YPC
Frank Gore: 4.8 YPC
Jamaal Charles: 5.3 YPC
Barry Sanders: 5.3 YPC
Earl Campbell: 4.8 YPC
Corey Dillon: 4.8 YPC
Terrell Davis: 4.7 YPC
Bo Jackson: 6.8 YPC (and he was also busy learning baseball)
Chris Johnson: 4.9 YPC



Only two I can really think of off the top of my head is Tomlinson who had 3.6 YPC his rookie year, and OJ Simpson who had 3.9 YPC his rookie year. The vast majority step out of the gate already as great RBs. You see that with the latest group of good young RBs in the league with their rookie seasons Ezekiel Elliott (5.1 YPC), David Johnson (4.6 YPC), Jordan Howard (5.2 YPC), Todd Gurley (4.8 YPC). Gurley, Doug Martin (4.6 YPC).

Then the rookie RBs tearing it up so far this year... Dalvin Cook (5.6 YPC) and Kareem Hunt (7.6 YPC).

I can't help but think that outside of realizing you need to add or lose weight, or a few notable exceptions, the majority come into the NFL with nothing to learn that would keep them from immediately being good. I do believe in Sophomore Slumps, for RB, though. I just think that the first move is theirs, and the defenses can use the offseason to change things on them and THEN it's a matter of learning.

[Millhouse]

(09-18-2017, 04:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ehhh.. I just look at all the successful RBs rookie season and it doesn't seem like any of them had to learn anything their rookie year.

Jim Brown: 4.7 YPC
Adrian Peterson: 5.6 YPC
Steven Jackson: 5.0 YPC
Eric Dickerson: 4.6 YPC
Frank Gore: 4.8 YPC
Jamaal Charles: 5.3 YPC
Barry Sanders: 5.3 YPC
Earl Campbell: 4.8 YPC
Corey Dillon: 4.8 YPC
Terrell Davis: 4.7 YPC
Bo Jackson: 6.8 YPC (and he was also busy learning baseball)
Chris Johnson: 4.9 YPC



Only two I can really think of off the top of my head is Tomlinson who had 3.6 YPC his rookie year, and OJ Simpson who had 3.9 YPC his rookie year. The vast majority step out of the gate already as great RBs. You see that with the latest group of good young RBs in the league with their rookie seasons Ezekiel Elliott (5.1 YPC), David Johnson (4.6 YPC), Jordan Howard (5.2 YPC), Todd Gurley (4.8 YPC). Gurley, Doug Martin (4.6 YPC).  

Then the rookie RBs tearing it up so far this year... Dalvin Cook (5.6 YPC) and Kareem Hunt (7.6 YPC).

I can't help but think that outside of realizing you need to add or lose weight, or a few notable exceptions, the majority come into the NFL with nothing to learn that would keep them from immediately being good. I do believe in Sophomore Slumps, for RB, though. I just think that the first move is theirs, and the defenses can use the offseason to change things on them and THEN it's a matter of learning.

Yet they all played their rookie year and learned the NFL game right out of the gate, and not on the bench (Im assuming they did).

And if the Bengals had anyone of those running backs right now as a rookie, would you or anyone sit them behind Gio or Hill? Heck no. As I mentioned earlier, IF Mixon is as good as many touted him to be, as the best all-around back in the class, then why bench him when two other rookies are tearing it up? 

Regardless, they just need to stick with either Mixon or Gio as the primary back. But based on various coordinators under Marvin, I'm not holding my breath.

[THE PISTONS]

IF Mixon plays a lot of snaps...he's going to have a really low YPC this year. Possibly below 3.5 ypc.

[corpjet]

I dont care which one (I prefer Mixon) but give one RB the bulk of the carries...........what we are doing now isn't working........and is adding to our ineptitude on offense.......

[*Nately120*]

Well, we are 0-2 so I wonder what would happen if we listened to the message board and kept the kicker who can't make field goals and forced our entire offense around a RB who is good for 2.6 yards per carry. If Marvin Lewis has an aversion to rookies people around here just can't get enough of 'em.

Is the guy a rookie? Play him. NOW. NOW NOW NOW!!!!!

[McC]

Right now, if you're looking to go with the hot hand, you have to go with Gio.

[RoyleRedlegs]

RB carousel might be one of the biggest reasons Zamp was canned.
A RB needs to build momentum and get in a rhythm. Can't do that rotating every other play.
Plays also get more predictable when you do this when you have a Jeremy Hill, who is vastly inferior talent-wise in the pass game

[Millhouse]

(09-18-2017, 07:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well, we are 0-2 so I wonder what would happen if we listened to the message board and kept the kicker who can't make field goals and forced our entire offense around a RB who is good for 2.6 yards per carry.  If Marvin Lewis has an aversion to rookies people around here just can't get enough of 'em.

Is the guy a rookie?  Play him.  NOW.  NOW NOW NOW!!!!!

Yeah, how awful it is to discuss starting Mixon, who many touted as the next great running back for the Bengals after Dillon.

[Millhouse]

(09-18-2017, 07:24 PM)McC Wrote: Right now, if you're looking to go with the hot hand, you have to go with Gio.

Hmmm yeah I guess, I dont know. Gio was the best back against the Ravens, no doubt there. But this last game he had 5 carries for 10 yards, and 2 catches for 16 yards. Mixon wasnt good obviously in his stats vs the Ravens. But the other night he had 9 carries for 36 yards, and a catch for 5 yards. Granted that isnt world beater stuff, but for as bad as they were he was technically the best back in that game.