The difference is apparent...

[*Nately120*]

(09-24-2017, 11:38 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: True, but winning the 2005 playoff game very well would have changed the narrative here.

Much like Dalton he got one legit shot at doing anything thanks to our franchise.  Yay.  One chance.  

[THE PISTONS]

(09-24-2017, 11:38 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: True, but winning the 2005 playoff game very well would have changed the narrative here.

I started a thread suggesting that and got blasted. I do think we would have won more playoff games had we got the 1st out of the way.

[TKUHL]

(09-24-2017, 11:05 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Take away Andy Dalton....where would Marvin Lewis be?

Take away Dalton, insert Brady, Rodgers, Staffird, Rapliburger, Bree's, Ryan, Carr, Eli, I can go on. Where would Green be? Easily would be the best in the game. I Couldn't resist and just stay away damnit.

[J24]

Lets be real Andy isn't elite yes that is true but he is pretty good and pretty good can win championship if there surrounded by real good talent. Look at Eli, Big Ben, Flaco, and Russell. Are all those guys elite no but they won the titles. Why because they had great pieces around them and that's what wins championships.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-25-2017, 12:23 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Take away Dalton, insert Brady, Rodgers, Staffird, Rapliburger, Bree's, Ryan, Carr, Eli, I can go on. Where would Green be? Easily would be the best in the game. I Couldn't resist and just stay away damnit.

I'm not taking up for Dalton as much as I'm indicting our scrub staff that has now Bungalized not one, but two QBs now.

[Pat5775]

Yes. It's time.

With QB talent in this upcoming draft and maybe, possibly, hopefully getting a new head coach... Add in our likely horrific record it seems like it may be a real possibility. My wish list:

1. Darnold
2. Rosen
3. Mayfield

Just please stay the hell away from Lamar Jackson. Don't fall for the hype, he is not an NFL caliber QB

[Shake n Blake]

I'm at the point where if they replace Dalton, I won't care.

I'm also at the point where if we get an outstanding QB prospect, I won't care.

Sam Darnold (or fill in the blank) isn't going to fix this team. Dalton was good enough to win with, and the Bengals broke him. Same as Palmer. Last time I was excited to move on to a new QB. I learned my lesson. So go ahead and dump Dalton and hopefully he balls out in Houston. Don't expect me to get excited about the next victim though. I somehow have a feeling that if Aaron Rodgers had been selected by the Bengals, he wouldn't be the Rodgers we know now.

This franchise &$@#ing blows.

[treee]

Some QBs can make plays under pressure. Andy can't, and our Oline isn't good. Simple as that.

[Von Cichlid]

(09-24-2017, 11:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That sums it up best. And once we do fix the line...some other leak will spring up.

You just can't fill all your needs through the draft. You can't...because you never know which players you draft will turn out good. Like if your line is bad and you draft 4 lineman to fill those spots...There's a 50% chance your 1st round pick will EVER be starting quality. The odds go down as the rounds get later.

But the Bengals make us think that free agency is really risk and the draft isn't. Well free agents atleast have played against NFL players. Then, it's up to your scouting to know if they'll fit in your system.

I think free agency is riskiest at skill positions like WR.  You never know if they will develop chemistry with your QB and learn the play book for your team like they did with the previous team.  O-line, otoh, has to be the safest.  If a lineman is good at one place, then he will be good at another as well.  Essentially, there was no excuse to not try and upgrade this line through FA this last year.

[Von Cichlid]

(09-25-2017, 01:37 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Yes. It's time.

With QB talent in this upcoming draft and maybe, possibly, hopefully getting a new head coach... Add in our likely horrific record it seems like it may be a real possibility. My wish list:

1. Darnold
2. Rosen
3. Mayfield

Just please stay the hell away from Lamar Jackson. Don't fall for the hype, he is not an NFL caliber QB

Trust me, you don't want Mayfield either.  He used to play for my alma mater and left on pretty bad terms.  I will admit, he has been coached up at OU, but this guy still has some very serious maturity issues.  Like the PI this last summer, planting the flag at tOSU field, and just this last week he talked trash to the BU sideline before their game and got the opposing team so riled up that his team almost had a major upset.  

[Pat5775]

(09-25-2017, 01:47 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm at the point where if they replace Dalton, I won't care.

I'm also at the point where if we get an outstanding QB prospect, I won't care.

Sam Darnold (or fill in the blank) isn't going to fix this team. Dalton was good enough to win with, and the Bengals broke him. Same as Palmer. Last time I was excited to move on to a new QB. I learned my lesson. So go ahead and dump Dalton and hopefully he balls out in Houston. Don't expect me to get excited about the next victim though. I somehow have a feeling that if Aaron Rodgers had been selected by the Bengals, he wouldn't be the Rodgers we know now.

This franchise &$@#ing blows.

The next QB we get hopefully won't have to suffer under the reign of Marvin Lewis. I'd say he is far and away the biggest problem with this organization. Yes, more so than Mike Brown. I believe Mike has taken a significant enough of a step back that he's almost a non-factor. However, the biggest thing Mike has been guilty of recently is blind/moronic loyalty to certain coaches. That's a pretty big negative but Mike has nothing to do with the mental lapses we see on game day. 

If I had my choice, and I could only get rid of one of them at the moment... Buh bye Marv. 

[Pat5775]

(09-25-2017, 03:05 AM)Von Cichlid Wrote: Trust me, you don't want Mayfield either.  He used to play for my alma mater and left on pretty bad terms.  I will admit, he has been coached up at OU, but this guy still has some very serious maturity issues.  Like the PI this last summer, planting the flag at tOSU field, and just this last week he talked trash to the BU sideline before their game and got the opposing team so riled up that his team almost had a major upset.  

Jeesh! Good to know... I thought the flag thing was overblown but the other stuff sounds like Chad Kelly 2.0

[The Caped Crusader]

(09-24-2017, 11:00 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Dalton's stats today look nice on paper, but when he needed to make plays at crucial moments, he didn't.  Any competent QB can complete dink-and-dunk passes.  But things like navigating the pocket, avoiding pressure, looking past your first read, turning nothing into something, and making the throws you need to make.  That's where it really counts.  And on almost all of these fronts, Dalton seems to have regressed these last two years.  And I'm not about to place ALL of the blame on the offensive line.  

I like Dalton, and I've stuck by him for the most part, but he just doesn't look like a guy that's going to take us the distance.

Have...have have to disagree here. Dalton made some excellent throws in tight spaces...so much so Romo made notice.


You have to hit on Marvin Lewis for letting up the gas. We threw deep what, once? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-24-2017, 11:32 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: To be fair, the injuries killed his career here.

.....which were caused by a shitty o line letting him get the shit beat out of him.

[muskiesfan]

I'd like to say I'm surprised by this thread, but I'm not.

Dalton played well yesterday. Yes, he made some mistakes still but so did Rodgers. I'm not saying Dalton is as good as Rodgers, I'm just saying every QB makes mistakes. Brady and Rodgers both threw pick 6's yesterday. Dalton didn't turn the ball over. Things happen.

Dalton is good enough for us to win with. Our head coach is not, our OLine coach is not, and our owner/GM is not. That's why I'm getting to the point of not really caring about it any more. Until the Brown family no longer runs things, we have no real chance of winning it all. Insert whatever head coach you want, position coaches and coordinators you want, players you want, scapegoat QB you want, and it's all for naught as long as the Brown family is in charge.

Dalton has never had a huge fan base here. For some, he's never been the QB they wanted so he never got a fair chance with them. He's played well and has deserved a lot better than he's received. With everything falling apart, he's the scapegoat. At this point, the fan base just wants to cut off their nose to spite their face. As long as a member of the Brown family runs this organization, nothing else matters.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-24-2017, 11:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Who headed down the Dillon and Pickens route.

Who headed down the Boomer Esiason route.....the beat goes on.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-25-2017, 03:17 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: The next QB we get hopefully won't have to suffer under the reign of Marvin Lewis. I'd say he is far and away the biggest problem with this organization. Yes, more so than Mike Brown. I believe Mike has taken a significant enough of a step back that he's almost a non-factor. However, the biggest thing Mike has been guilty of recently is blind/moronic loyalty to certain coaches. That's a pretty big negative but Mike has nothing to do with the mental lapses we see on game day. 

If I had my choice, and I could only get rid of one of them at the moment... Buh bye Marv. 

I feel ya on Marv, although the scouting department won't get any bigger, certain coaches will be kept for life, no practice facility will be built, no free agents will be signed, and we still won't value linemen (especially interior). The choking is mostly on Marv, but the Brown family will be worn like an anchor for anyone that coaches the Bengals.

(09-25-2017, 08:58 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'd like to say I'm surprised by this thread, but I'm not.

Dalton played well yesterday. Yes, he made some mistakes still but so did Rodgers. I'm not saying Dalton is as good as Rodgers, I'm just saying every QB makes mistakes. Brady and Rodgers both threw pick 6's yesterday. Dalton didn't turn the ball over. Things happen.

Dalton is good enough for us to win with. Our head coach is not, our OLine coach is not, and our owner/GM is not. That's why I'm getting to the point of not really caring about it any more. Until the Brown family no longer runs things, we have no real chance of winning it all. Insert whatever head coach you want, position coaches and coordinators you want, players you want, scapegoat QB you want, and it's all for naught as long as the Brown family is in charge.

Dalton has never had a huge fan base here. For some, he's never been the QB they wanted so he never got a fair chance with them. He's played well and has deserved a lot better than he's received. With everything falling apart, he's the scapegoat. At this point, the fan base just wants to cut off their nose to spite their face. As long as a member of the Brown family runs this organization, nothing else matters.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2017, 01:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I feel ya on Marv, although the scouting department won't get any bigger, certain coaches will be kept for life, no practice facility will be built, no free agents will be signed, and we still won't value linemen (especially interior). The choking is mostly on Marv, but the Brown family will be worn like an anchor for anyone that coaches the Bengals.

I read an article on Dave Shula. How essentially he was surprised that the Bengals fired Wyche and offered him the job after 1 meeting. He knew he wasn't ready.

They won like 5 games his 1st year, then 3-13, 3-13...and he got a contract extension. He talked about how guys didn't get better. Draft picks failed.

He thought he was the problem...until he kept seeing it happen long after he left then he knew it wasn't him.

[*psychdoctor*]

I'm usually a Dalton supporter but the guy just doesn't have it

He just doesn't have the equanimity to make place under pressure.

His movement in the pocket sucks.

[Rhinocero23]

(09-25-2017, 07:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....which were caused by a shitty o line letting him get the shit beat out of him.

simple but true statement.