Supposedly the Bengals Extension Offer to Zeitler was $5.5 Million

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-28-2017, 05:40 PM)Synric Wrote: Scouting is one of the reasons I thought letting Jay Gruden get away was a mistake. Alot of good offensive players were drafted in Cincy under his watch.

I think Hue was the better OC but Gruden may have had the better eye for talent

[snowy]

Spidey sense tells me Zeitler just didn't want to be in Cindy anymore, for whatever reason, even if the Bengals' offer/counteroffer was close to what he could get elsewhere.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-28-2017, 07:28 PM)snowy Wrote: Spidey sense tells me Zeitler just didn't want to be in Cindy anymore, for whatever reason, even if the Bengals' offer/counteroffer was close to what he could get elsewhere.

False. Absolutely false. 

Firstly, the Zeitlers really enjoyed it here.
Secondly, THERE WAS NO COUNTER OFFER. They made one offer, absurdly low at that, then never re-entered negotiations

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2017, 08:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Um, the term "water under the bridge" indicates that the subject in question is no longer of concern and/or has been circumnavigated by action (as in building a bridge over it).  In this case the water is our lousy o-line and the bridge is what, exactly?

Dalton is still getting ground into the turf on a weekly basis, so alas I see no bridge.

The Bengals new offensive line. It doesn't mover very well, but i bet no one pushes it back into Dalton's lap.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-28-2017, 12:10 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Was this before or after DeCastro?

The reason I ask is because if it was before, the Bengals were willing to negotiate and come to a decent deal setting the market value which is something the Bengals never ever do. If the offer was after, they were still willing to negotiate but were not going to pay what DeCastro received.

Zeitler's agent most likely told him to wait to see what DeCastro got and would want at least $250k more at least per year since Zeitler is the better guard.

The Bengals will never pay top $ for a guard and value tackles way more.

I just wish the Bengals were a little, just a little like the Cowboys when approaching the O Line.

It was AFTER.

We'll never know if his agent told him to wait. The Bengals could have offered him $8 million before DeCastro signed and set the market.

Of course you are correct that the Bengals will never pay top money for a Guard. You need good Guards and a Center to win in todays NFL.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2017, 07:28 PM)snowy Wrote: Spidey sense tells me Zeitler just didn't want to be in Cindy anymore, for whatever reason, even if the Bengals' offer/counteroffer was close to what he could get elsewhere.

Did she age badly?

[McC]

Mike to Katie--Go offer him slap in the face money.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-28-2017, 09:48 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The Bengals new offensive line. It doesn't mover very well, but i bet no one pushes it back into Dalton's lap.

If the Bengals' new offensive line was a bridge...

[THE PISTONS]

I had forgotten that the Bengals low-balled Zeitler too. Probably $7-8 million a year BEFORE he hit free agency and BEFORE DeCastro signed his extension and Z is still here.

[McC]

Why are we rehashing this shit? FFS. Too damn much looking back. This seems like the perfect time to start looking forward.

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-03-2019, 08:24 PM)McC Wrote: Why are we rehashing this shit?  FFS.  Too damn much looking back.  This seems like the perfect time to start looking forward.

Couldn't agree more  :andy:

[NKURyan]

(03-03-2019, 08:24 PM)McC Wrote: Why are we rehashing this shit?  FFS.  Too damn much looking back.  This seems like the perfect time to start looking forward.

Agreed. Just bring up the point in some other thread without necro-posting a bunch of stuff from 2017...

[fredtoast]

Some one is re-releasing his "Greatest whines" collection.

[BengalChris]

(09-27-2017, 04:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I keep hearing that Zeitler was overpaid with the Browns and not worth the money. While I agree that he was paid a lot, lets look at if the Bengals made a strong attempt at retaining him:

This was before Zeitler hit free agency:

“I don’t see it, I mean cause Kevin Zeitler turned down good money, turned down an offer that was something like $5.5 million per year average. But, you know, when you look at it, (Kelechi) Osemele got like $12 million bucks a year from the Oakland Raiders last year, as a guard. So Zeitler’s like, hmm. Osemele made the Pro Bowl team, Zeitler is second team. So Kevin Zeitler is thinking, I’ve gotta be eight, nine, 10, seven (million) worst case scenario. And not just Kevin, Kevin and his agents. But I don’t see the Bengals paying that kind of dollars to a guard when they have other guys they feel they can plug in and play,” Lapham said.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/3/14157272/dave-lapham-doesnt-see-bengals-re-signing-both-kevin-zeitler-and-andrew-whitworth

Then once he was a free agent:

And, they don't pay guards big money. Zeitler is at the top of his game. He was rated the best guard on the market after not missing a snap in 2017. That translated to $12 million per year, but the Bengals don't believe guards win enough games on their own to warrant top of the market money. The Bengals didn't offer a contract but told his agent, "If you don't get what you want, come back."

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Facelift/6f86968a-e26b-4fa0-95c3-75c043ecf393

Then they went out and gave Andre Smith $3.25 million to stay.

It was 2016 that was his last year here, BTW.

It is true that this is an old story it is an all too familiar story from the Bengals front office. Bengals claim they make competitive offers, but when you compare $5.5M to the $10M DeCastro got it's hard not to believe that the Bengals management are simply just fooling themselves.

Expect to see more of this in the next couple of years, if not this off season.

Dennard is a guy, who if the team doesn't re-sign, is going to leave a gaping hole in the secondary. We don't have anyone on the roster who can replace him at close to his level of play. And not re-signing him means we'll need to either use a high draft pick or just sort of throw darts at the draft board with our 5 6th round picks and hope to find a gem.

Then there's AJ Green. He's going into a contract year and is getting up there in age and was injured part of last year. The typical Mike Brown thinking is that he should be able to get Green relatively cheap because he was injured last year and he's getting older, so his value is diminished. Think Whitworth, except with an injury. The team spent a top 10 pick on Ross, therefore he should be as good as Green, in their minds, as they were the ones who made the pick against the coaches advice.

Why did the team keep Ogbuehi on the roster last year? He did nothing and the coaches knew he couldn't do anything to help the team and kept him inactive a lot. So why waste the roster spot? There's only 53 roster spots and they are valuable. Filling them with a bust isn't a good idea. But, the team parted with Whitworth and they spent a 1st round pick Ogbuehi.

The front office just cannot admit a mistake. Therefore they cannot fix a mistake. One has to know something is a mistake before one can even begin to fix it, if it's not a mistake why fix it?

My biggest fear with the Bengals is that Mike Brown has so poisoned thinking of the next generation of his family that the team will never be able to right itself. Mike Brown is the real life version of the scene from Scary Movie's bad decisions, Banana over the knife and Death/Safety, except in Mike Brown's case it's Extreme Gamble/Smart Move.





  

[fredtoast]

(03-04-2019, 02:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: It is true that this is an old story it is an all too familiar story from the Bengals front office. Bengals claim they make competitive offers, but when you compare $5.5M to the $10M DeCastro got it's hard not to believe that the Bengals management are simply just fooling themselves.

Actually it is not "all too familiar" a story from the Bengals front office.  In fact they have generally re-signed as many if no more of their top stars than other NFL teams.

Carson
Ocho
TJ
Rudi
Willie
Levi 
Rich Braham
Bobbie Williams
Whitworth
Leon Hall
Dunlap
Atkins
Boling
AJ
Burfict
Kirkpatrick

And many more.

Meanwhile every year there is a long list of top rated free agents that other NFL teams refuse to pay.  If the Bengals are the only team that does not re-sign all of their star players then where do all these free agents come from?

(03-04-2019, 02:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Expect to see more of this in the next couple of years, if not this off season.

Last off season we added the 8th highest paid OT and a LB that was paid in the top half of the league for his position.  I look for us to continue to spend money for talent either from our roster or others.

[BengalChris]

(03-04-2019, 03:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it is not "all too familiar" a story from the Bengals front office.  In fact they have generally re-signed as many if no more of their top stars than other NFL teams.

Carson
Ocho
TJ
Rudi
Willie
Levi 
Rich Braham
Bobbie Williams
Whitworth
Leon Hall
Dunlap
Atkins
Boling
AJ
Burfict
Kirkpatrick

And many more.

Meanwhile every year there is a long list of top rated free agents that other NFL teams refuse to pay.  If the Bengals are the only team that does not re-sign all of their star players then where do all these free agents come from?


Last off season we added the 8th highest paid OT and a LB that was paid in the top half of the league for his position.  I look for us to continue to spend money for talent either from our roster or others.

Funny how you bring up Whitworth. Mistake?

The amount paid on a position is not what is important, but rather the what are you getting for that money. There is smart use of money and not smart use of money.

Look for more of this in the next couple of years!!!

 

[THE PISTONS]

(03-04-2019, 03:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Funny how you bring up Whitworth. Mistake?

The amount paid on a position is not what is important, but rather the what are you getting for that money. There is smart use of money and not smart use of money.

Look for more of this in the next couple of years!!!

 

By losing free agents like Sanu, Jones, Whitworth, Smith, Peko, Zeitler, Joseph, Hall, etc...we've depleted our roster to the point where we have to spend now to upgrade.

We replaced most of the players we lost with inferior players.

[BengalChris]

(03-04-2019, 04:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: By losing free agents like Sanu, Jones, Whitworth, Smith, Peko, Zeitler, Joseph, Hall, etc...we've depleted our roster to the point where we have to spend now to upgrade.

We replaced most of the players we lost with inferior players.

And that's really the point isn't it? If the players drafted where as good it would not have been an issue. But, instead, somehow the team convinced itself that Ogbuehi and Fisher were going to replace Whitworth and Smith and they continued with that non-sense even after both proved they couldn't do the jobs.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-04-2019, 09:38 PM)BengalChris Wrote: And that's really the point isn't it? If the players drafted where as good it would not have been an issue. But, instead, somehow the team convinced itself that Ogbuehi and Fisher were going to replace Whitworth and Smith and they continued with that non-sense even after both proved they couldn't do the jobs.

EXACTLY! With the exception of Boyd. I'd say he adequately replaced Jones a few years later.

But isn't that the case with any draft pick? Out of 7 picks you may get 2 starters...so if you have a really good starter, that pick may not pan out and you regress.

We did have some really good drafts, but they were 7-8 years ago now and most of those guys are gone.

[CincinnatiKid]

(09-28-2017, 08:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Um, the term "water under the bridge" indicates that the subject in question is no longer of concern and/or has been circumnavigated by action (as in building a bridge over it).  In this case the water is our lousy o-line and the bridge is what, exactly?

Dalton is still getting ground into the turf on a weekly basis, so alas I see no bridge.

Well done