Andy Dalton Deserves Some Credit

[Stonyhands]

Andy spread the ball around more and used the TE like a TE is supposed to be used. Let’s not kid ourselves though, whether or not you are a Dalton hater or apologist, we all know Dalton has shown he can have great games. He’s also shown that when he’s off, he’s really really off. His entire professional career his biggest complaint is his consistency. Can he string enough good games in a row to take us to the show and win it all? Color me not impressed that Dalton lit up a team that has 1 win in the last 20 regular season games...the only team the NFL shits on more than us. But I guess if Joe Flaaco can win a Super Bowl anybody can.

[The Caped Crusader]

(10-03-2017, 03:06 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Andy spread the ball around more and used the TE like a TE is supposed to be used.  Let’s not kid ourselves though, whether or not you are a Dalton hater or apologist, we all know Dalton has shown he can have great games.  He’s also shown that when he’s off, he’s really really off.  His entire professional career his biggest complaint is his consistency.  Can he string enough good games in a row to take us to the show and win it all?  Color me not impressed that Dalton lit up a team that has 1 win in the last 20 regular season games...the only team the NFL shits on more than us.  But I guess if Joe Flaaco can win a Super Bowl anybody can.

His MVP season I don't think he had a 'bad bad game'. The last two years can easily be attributed to Zampese. The guy is massively at fault.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-02-2017, 05:51 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You're very observant.  It's a totally different technique taught in Pittsburgh which includes lots of uncalled holding.

Pats and Packers, too...when you are a face of the NFL QB, you get that help because, as AJ said: "It is a star-driven league".  I don't agree with it, but I understand it. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-02-2017, 06:57 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I only watched the highlites lastnight and I was thinking, look at Bodine and Johnson out front of Gio. Then I saw the defender coming and Bodine grab him and swing him down. I was laughing hard because I couldn't believe we did get flagged for it!! Only in Cleveland!!

I just wondered what kind of technique that was that he tried on that guy.  Piano man must be really burning the midnight oil with these guys.

[Stonyhands]

(10-03-2017, 05:09 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: His MVP season I don't think he had a 'bad bad game'. The last two years can easily be attributed to Zampese. The guy is massively at fault.

He had a bad game against Houston. He had another bad game against Pittsburgh even though we won and he was most likely headed for a bad second game against Pittsburgh as the interception he was hurt on he threw right to the defender on a screen play down by the goal line.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2017, 02:28 AM)CanadianBengal Wrote: He struggles with the deep ball 

Why is this still a thing? Yeah, ok, this year, he's struggled with it, but most of his career Dalton has been one of the best in throwing the deep ball.

(10-03-2017, 03:06 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Andy spread the ball around more and used the TE like a TE is supposed to be used.  Let’s not kid ourselves though, whether or not you are a Dalton hater or apologist, we all know Dalton has shown he can have great games.  He’s also shown that when he’s off, he’s really really off.  His entire professional career his biggest complaint is his consistency.  Can he string enough good games in a row to take us to the show and win it all?  Color me not impressed that Dalton lit up a team that has 1 win in the last 20 regular season games...the only team the NFL shits on more than us.  But I guess if Joe Flaaco can win a Super Bowl anybody can.

Your opinion might have more merit if you didn't bash Dalton with unreasonable and unfactual claims every chance you get.

[WiregrassBenGal]

Andy is a tough kid and I have always liked him. He needs some protection like what you guys were talking about because he can shred the other teams when he does. The other point is I worry about him getting hurt.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-03-2017, 03:06 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Andy spread the ball around more and used the TE like a TE is supposed to be used.  Let’s not kid ourselves though, whether or not you are a Dalton hater or apologist, we all know Dalton has shown he can have great games.  He’s also shown that when he’s off, he’s really really off.  His entire professional career his biggest complaint is his consistency.  Can he string enough good games in a row to take us to the show and win it all?  Color me not impressed that Dalton lit up a team that has 1 win in the last 20 regular season games...the only team the NFL shits on more than us.  But I guess if Joe Flaaco can win a Super Bowl anybody can.

When you have a QB in the 12-16 range of QB's in the NFL that's what you get.

He'll have a couple great games. A couple bad games. And a bunch of average to above average games.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-03-2017, 01:05 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: He had a bad game against Houston.  He had another bad game against Pittsburgh even though we won and he was most likely headed for a bad second game against Pittsburgh as the interception he was hurt on he threw right to the defender on a screen play down by the goal line.

Yeah we look at Palmer's 2005 season as the Bengals gold standard of QB play, yet...

vs Steelers: 21-36-227-0-2 (53.8 passer rating)
vs Browns: 13-27-93-1-1 (53.5 passer rating)

Both worse than the 2 games that you mention with Dalton.

Or what about possibly the best season by any QB in NFL history? Tom Brady in 2007:

@Ravens: 18-38-257-2-1 (76.3 passer rating)
vs Jets: 14-27-140-0-1 (51.5 passer rating)
vs Chargers: 22-33-209-2-3 (66.4 passer rating) *playoffs

Or what about Big Ben last year? Everyone has been slurping on that dude:

vs Bengals: 19-37-259-3-2 (78.5 passer rating)
@ Eagles: 24-44-257-0-1 (62.4 passer rating)
@ Dolphins: 19-34-189-1-2 (57.1 passer rating)
@ Ravens: 23-45-264-1-1 (67.3 passer rating)
@ Browns: 23-36-167-0-0 (74.7 passer rating)
@ Bills: 17-31-220-0-3 (37.8 passer rating)
@Chiefs: 20-31-224-0-1 (72.5 passer rating) *playoffs

Damn. Maybe people should be calling him "Good Ben/Bad Ben". 7 bad games in 1 season.

Seriously though, this is easy. Just pick a QB, pick a year and look for the bad games. They all have them, yet folks act like it's an Andy Dalton exclusive.

(10-03-2017, 01:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Why is this still a thing? Yeah, ok, this year, he's struggled with it, but most of his career Dalton has been one of the best in throwing the deep ball.


Your opinion might have more merit if you didn't bash Dalton with unreasonable and unfactual claims every chance you get.

And even now, he's been the best deep passer in the AFCN by a wide margin, according to PFF.

[XenoMorph]

Dalton nominated for the FedEx AIR player of the week

[XenoMorph]

(10-03-2017, 01:17 PM)WiregrassBenGal Wrote: Andy is a tough kid and I have always liked him. He needs some protection like what you guys were talking about because he can shred the other teams when he does. The other point is I worry about him getting hurt.

Not much injury concern when it comes to Dalton.. Other than the thumb break on a tackle  hes been really healthy for us.

But if he keeps getting sacked at record levels (record for Dalton)    it wont be good for him psychically or mentally.    

But every additional week in Lazor's Offense should open up more of the game plan and help protect him more.   (plus we have been shuffling that ol a lot so far  don't think we have had the same 5 starters in the same spots for 2 games in a row yet.)

[muskiesfan]

Dalton has deserved credit for 6 seasons. He's a lot better than a lot of his OWN fans give him credit for. Since he came into the league, he's got more 100 or better passer rating games than any other AFCN QB. No, I'm not saying he's better than Ben, but he's better than Flacco and anyone the Browns have trotted out since then. Ben and Flacco have benefited from solid defenses and better run games than Dalton. I know, I know, postseason success. While Dalton has not done himself a lot of favors there, he's still a good QB.

Even after his rough start to the season, he's 15th in passing yards, tied fro 14th in passing TDs, and has a 90.6 passer rating. Yes, he's middle of the road right now, but after the way the season started I'd say he's back on track to being himself. Fans like to act like he's garbage, but he's a pretty damn good QB. If he had half the support that Burfict gets, it'd be amazing.

[Devils Advocate]

Andy’s a fine QB. I’ve supported him since he was drafted. I liked him before we drafted him & was ecstatic we landed him. He continues to prove the haters wrong.

I like gunslingers. While he may not be a prototypical gunslinger, he does have some of it in him.

My only real complaint about him, and I’ve been saying this for three or four seasons now, is that he tends to bail on his protection prematurely as well as lacks pocket presence ie doesn’t re establish the pocket or move it around.

Most of the haters have no idea what they’re talking about. They think he can’t throw deep when in reality he’s one of the best. He’s also as good as Rodgers in Hail Mary plays, but often is omitted from the discussion (AJ could be the factor here, of course). Nevertheless, he’s completed a fair amount of HM’s. He’s also one of the better running QB’s in the league but gets over looked. Even one of the announcers mentioned his lack of running ability, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

He may not be able to carry a team on his own, but very few have.

Andy doesn’t deserve much of the criticism he receives.

[Joelist]

He does have pocket presence; the problem is the OL is so bad that he either bails fast or gets hit. Lazor has helped but his clock is still running fast from the beating over the last roughly 20 games.

[Stonyhands]

Ok, so for people who think Andy is not the problem....let’s make a wager. I’ll disappear off these boards forever if/when Dalton wins a playoff game...anywhere, doesn’t even have to be in Cincinnati. If he doesn’t bring us a playoff win by the time we start a new QB you have to acknowledge you were wrong and I was right in your sig for the rest of the time that you post on this forum.

[Devils Advocate]

(10-03-2017, 09:37 PM)Joelist Wrote: He does have pocket presence; the problem is the OL is so bad that he either bails fast or gets hit. Lazor has helped but his clock is still running fast from the beating over the last roughly 20 games.

Remember, I like & support Andy, but I don’t recall ever seeing him reset the pocket. Not one time. I can recall him bailing more times than I’d like. I’ve seen Ben, Rodgers, Brady & Brees do it countless times & I don’t even watch those guys play, for the most part. Preemptively, I’m not comparing Andy to those players. I’m just saying, to my eyes, Andy doesn’t move the pocket.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-03-2017, 09:39 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Ok, so for people who think Andy is not the problem....let’s make a wager.  I’ll disappear off these boards forever if/when Dalton wins a playoff game...anywhere, doesn’t even have to be in Cincinnati.  If he doesn’t bring us a playoff win by the time we start a new QB you have to acknowledge you were wrong and I was right in your sig for the rest of the time that you post on this forum.

How about this. I'll bet that if Marvin and Dalton part ways, Dalton will win a playoff game before Marvin.

Heck, I'd bet Dalton will win a playoff game before any Bengals QB regardless of who the coach is. So long as Dalton doesn't go to a team like the Browns or Jaguars.

[Devils Advocate]

(10-03-2017, 09:39 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Ok, so for people who think Andy is not the problem....let’s make a wager. I’ll disappear off these boards forever if/when Dalton wins a playoff game...anywhere, doesn’t even have to be in Cincinnati. If he doesn’t bring us a playoff win by the time we start a new QB you have to acknowledge you were wrong and I was right in your sig for the rest of the time that you post on this forum.

Andy is not the problem. I don’t think it’s coincidence that he suffers the same plight as his predecessor. It’s uncanny.

(No, I’m not making a bet. I don’t want anyone to leave this board).

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-03-2017, 09:26 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Andy’s a fine QB. I’ve supported him since he was drafted. I liked him before we drafted him & was ecstatic we landed him. He continues to prove the haters wrong.

I like gunslingers. While he may not be a prototypical gunslinger, he does have some of it in him.

My only real complaint about him, and I’ve been saying this for three or four seasons now, is that he tends to bail on his protection prematurely as well as lacks pocket presence ie doesn’t re establish the pocket or move it around.

Most of the haters have no idea what they’re talking about. They think he can’t throw deep when in reality he’s one of the best. He’s also as good as Rodgers in Hail Mary plays, but often is omitted from the discussion (AJ could be the factor here, of course). Nevertheless, he’s completed a fair amount of HM’s. He’s also one of the better running QB’s in the league but gets over looked. Even one of the announcers mentioned his lack of running ability, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

He may not be able to carry a team on his own, but very few have.

Andy doesn’t deserve much of the criticism he receives.

Dalton is the exact opposite of a gunslinger. He's too careful most of the time. I don't think I've ever seen a QB throw it away as much as him. I wish he would give AJ (and others) a chance to make a play once in awhile instead of atomically throwing it out of bounds if the play breaks down. 

[Shake n Blake]

(10-03-2017, 10:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Dalton is the exact opposite of a gunslinger. He's too careful most of the time. I don't think I've ever seen a QB throw it away as much as him. I wish he would give AJ (and others) a chance to make a play once in awhile instead of atomically throwing it out of bounds if the play breaks down. 

Honestly, you're both kinda right. 

2011 - Dalton threw it away a ton
2012 - Marv wanted more "unscripted plays", and Dalton started opening it up
2013 - This is when people were calling Dalton a gunslinger. He took plenty of risks. Made a lot of big plays, but also threw 20 picks
2014 - He reeled it in some under Hue, but was still taking chances
2015 - Dalton slung it around plenty and had the most success with it. He looked phenomenal.
2016 - Zampese kinda took Dalton back to his rookie ways of throwing it away at first sign of danger.
2017 - More of the same so far, kinda feel it has to do with the line at least somewhat.