Andy Dalton Deserves Some Credit

[Devils Advocate]

(10-03-2017, 10:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Dalton is the exact opposite of a gunslinger. He's too careful most of the time. I don't think I've ever seen a QB throw it away as much as him. I wish he would give AJ (and others) a chance to make a play once in awhile instead of atomically throwing it out of bounds if the play breaks down. 

I did say he wasn’t the typical gunslinger. Still, he does sling it around a bit. Look no further than the TD to AJ against GB & then the second TD to Kroft against Cleveland. But I would agree with Shake, in that he hasn’t been one so much recently, which is also why I said ‘he does have it in him’.

For the most part however, this post doesn’t make much sense to me. If anything, Andy relies on AJ too much, meaning he’s always giving AJ a chance to make a play or, looking to make a play with AJ. It’s one of the biggest gripes I’ve read on these boards.

Throwing the ball away isn’t a bad thing. I disagree that he does it too much. That’s not to say he doesn’t do it often, but those instances were implied when I mentioned him leaving the pocket too soon.

Perhaps he leaves some plays out on the field when there’s a breakdown, but typically when he scrambles, or any QB scrambles, the routes are broken as well & while it’d be awesome to make plays here or there when this happens, & let’s not pretend that he never does, any coach worth their weight will tell you it’s better to throw it away than to force something & turn it over.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-03-2017, 09:26 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Andy’s a fine QB. I’ve supported him since he was drafted. I liked him before we drafted him & was ecstatic we landed him. He continues to prove the haters wrong.

I like gunslingers. While he may not be a prototypical gunslinger, he does have some of it in him.

My only real complaint about him, and I’ve been saying this for three or four seasons now, is that he tends to bail on his protection prematurely as well as lacks pocket presence ie doesn’t re establish the pocket or move it around.

Most of the haters have no idea what they’re talking about. They think he can’t throw deep when in reality he’s one of the best. He’s also as good as Rodgers in Hail Mary plays, but often is omitted from the discussion (AJ could be the factor here, of course). Nevertheless, he’s completed a fair amount of HM’s. He’s also one of the better running QB’s in the league but gets over looked. Even one of the announcers mentioned his lack of running ability, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

He may not be able to carry a team on his own, but very few have.

Andy doesn’t deserve much of the criticism he receives.

I heard this, too.  I was like "way to do your homework, dude, what's next....the number of recent (2006) Bengal arrests?"

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2017, 06:31 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Even after his rough start to the season, he ... has a 90.6 passer rating.

Honestly, this needs to be highlighted more. Dude, had a truly horrible game 1. Game 2, not as bad, but still bad. And yet, that's how good Games 3 & 4 were that his QB rating for the SEASON is now at a 90.6. Truly remarkable.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-03-2017, 09:39 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Ok, so for people who think Andy is not the problem....let’s make a wager.  I’ll disappear off these boards forever if/when Dalton wins a playoff game...anywhere, doesn’t even have to be in Cincinnati.  If he doesn’t bring us a playoff win by the time we start a new QB you have to acknowledge you were wrong and I was right in your sig for the rest of the time that you post on this forum.

Here's a novel idea: why not PROVE that Andy is the problem. Shouldn't be too hard is you're so sure of it.

I don't think he's a problem at all and I have loads of evidence to back up that claim. So instead of some bet that proves nothing, why not back up your claim with facts and evidence?

[Shake n Blake]

(10-04-2017, 12:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Honestly, this needs to be highlighted more. Dude, had a truly horrible game 1. Game 2, not as bad, but still bad. And yet, that's how good Games 3 & 4 were that his QB rating for the SEASON is now at a 90.6. Truly remarkable.

Had the same thought when I checked the stats the other day and saw his rating at 90.6.

IIRC, it was at 47.2 after 2 weeks.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-04-2017, 12:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Had the same thought when I checked the stats the other day and saw his rating at 90.6.

IIRC, it was at 47.2 after 2 weeks.

Yep, he also was the 32nd ranked QB after 2 weeks in terms of QB rating.

[Stonyhands]

(10-04-2017, 12:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's a novel idea: why not PROVE that Andy is the problem. Shouldn't be too hard is you're so sure of it.

I don't think he's a problem at all and I have loads of evidence to back up that claim. So instead of some bet that proves nothing, why not back up your claim with facts and evidence?

Andy Dalton Playoff stats:
Record 0-4
TDs 1
Ints 6
Completion % 55.7

But hey that’s probably the playcaller’s fault, or the o-line, or maybe he didn’t have any weapons. You see I have history to back me up and all you have is a raging case of Homerism. Truth is that nobody outside of Cincinnati mentions the name Andy Dalton when the topic of good QBs come up. Word is out that in order for Andy to “excel,” and I use that term very loosely, coordinators have to really simplify and decisions Andy has to make by using three step drops/ one read pass plays. Hence why when we go to the playoffs and face teams with good coaching they very easily shut him down.

Andy’s playoff stats are all the facts and evidence I need. You keep clinging to Andy’s regular season accolades and feel free to think Andy’s brought success to this franchise and you’d be right if your definition of success is the same as Mike Browns. I’m sorry but I’ve set the bar higher than merely making the playoffs.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-05-2017, 04:02 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Andy Dalton Playoff stats:
Record 0-4
TDs 1
Ints 6
Completion % 55.7

But hey that’s probably the playcaller’s fault, or the o-line, or maybe he didn’t have any weapons.  You see I have history to back me up and all you have is a raging case of Homerism.  Truth is that nobody outside of Cincinnati mentions the name Andy Dalton when the topic of good QBs come up.  Word is out that in order for Andy to “excel,” and I use that term very loosely, coordinators have to really simplify and decisions Andy has to make by using three step drops/ one read pass plays.  Hence why when we go to the playoffs and face teams with good coaching they very easily shut him down.  

Andy’s playoff stats are all the facts and evidence I need.  You keep clinging to Andy’s regular season accolades and feel free to think Andy’s brought success to this franchise and you’d be right if your definition of success is the same as Mike Browns.  I’m sorry but I’ve set the bar higher than merely making the playoffs.

I hate to say it but this is absolutely true. And it's not just playing in a small market. Palmer got a lot of love from the national media when he was in his prime here. Hell, my first thread here was actually me looking for validation after arguing with some football fans on another site over Dalton being as good, or better than Andrew Luck. I'm pretty embarrassed about making such a claim now, but I really thought he had taken the next step in 2015.