Offense still has room to grow and concerns

[impactplaya]

Trust me I'm thrilled over the fact the offense has found the end zone and a kind of rhythm under Lazor.
He's been instrumental in getting Dalton settled and some poised has returned
Now that I've took a step back
Here's my concerns
The Browns were missing Danny Shelton and Myles Garrett.2 cornerstones if their defense.
Williams has their safeties playing 7 miles back
Yet the Bengals has issues running the ball.
3 backs gained less than 100 yds combined
Yes Dalton was able to dink dunk his way to a 146 rating
But the Browns Lbers are really bad in coverage
You can live with underneath stuff and screens for so long before defenses sit on it and compress everything
At some point the running game has to get on track and Lazor needs to dial up some vertical stuff
The Steelers will be a good test coming up
Heyward and Tuitt collaspe a pocket and they piling up sacks at a record rate
Dalton got away with 2 bad throws when the game was out of reach
But he can't be telegraphing throws

[*ochocincos*]

(10-02-2017, 01:04 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Trust me I'm thrilled over the fact the offense has found the end zone and a kind of rhythm under Lazor.
He's been instrumental in getting Dalton settled and some poised has returned
Now that I've took a step back
Here's my concerns
The Browns were missing Danny Shelton and Myles Garrett.2 cornerstones if their defense.
Williams has their safeties playing 7 miles back
Yet the Bengals has issues running the ball.
3 backs gained less than 100 yds combined
Yes Dalton was able to dink dunk his way to a 146 rating
But the Browns Lbers are really bad in coverage
You can live with underneath stuff and screens for so long before defenses sit on it and compress everything
At some point the running game has to get on track and Lazor needs to dial up some vertical stuff
The Steelers will be a good test coming up
Heyward and Tuitt collaspe a pocket and they piling up sacks at a record rate
Dalton got away with 2 bad throws when the game was out of reach
But he can't be telegraphing throws

Buffalo has the best scoring defense in the NFL. If the offense can put up points against them, that's a good indication of how improved it has been over Lazor.

[CJD]

It all comes down to our Oline.

If we can fix it in the off season, we can be really good next year.

But if they continue to completely fail at run blocking as well as allowing early pressures that cause Andy to "Dalton out" in critical scenarios, then it doesn't matter how many great weapons we have.

We may be able to be competitive this year down the stretch, but if we want to be super bowl contenders, we need to upgrade just about every Oline starter.

[*Go Cards*]

Yes they do and especially the OL.

Lazor's play calling is dictated per our OL and the how often the Browns blitz.

But things are certainly looking up.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-02-2017, 01:04 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Trust me I'm thrilled over the fact the offense has found the end zone and a kind of rhythm under Lazor.
He's been instrumental in getting Dalton settled and some poised has returned
Now that I've took a step back
Here's my concerns
The Browns were missing Danny Shelton and Myles Garrett.2 cornerstones if their defense.
Williams has their safeties playing 7 miles back
Yet the Bengals has issues running the ball.
3 backs gained less than 100 yds combined
Yes Dalton was able to dink dunk his way to a 146 rating
But the Browns Lbers are really bad in coverage
You can live with underneath stuff and screens for so long before defenses sit on it and compress everything
At some point the running game has to get on track and Lazor needs to dial up some vertical stuff
The Steelers will be a good test coming up
Heyward and Tuitt collaspe a pocket and they piling up sacks at a record rate
Dalton got away with 2 bad throws when the game was out of reach
But he can't be telegraphing throws

2 things;

1. Shelton is easily the most overrated defensive lineman in the league; just like BJ Raji, who was always a POS. Shelton's a bit better, but he too is very POSty.
2. Kirksey is decent in coverage and so is Collins, though the latter did not play yesterday.

Otherwise, I agree for the most part.

Regarding the dink and dunk though, Joe Montana made a living off of it and it has been working for us (very well, at that) in the past 2 games.

Andy has shown he can do the vertical fairly well, but if something is working and working well, don't shy away from it too much.

[Shake n Blake]

If the safeties are playing back, that makes it really hard to go deep. Teams don't respect our ability to run, which will make it harder to open up the pass. We are currently 28th in yards per carry. Once again, it's an o-line problem.

Because we can't run block and also can't pass block longer than 2 seconds, it's forcing us to use the short passing game as basically a substitute for the run game...and to protect the QB from being sacked 8 times.

Lazor has done a fine job getting Dalton back on track and getting back in the EZ, but the run game has to get fixed. We have to figure something out to make this o-line something better than "abysmal". Start Andre Smith. Make a trade for a Center, Tackles or RG. Lazor can only use smoke and mirrors for so long. At some point, you have to be able to do better than 26 carries for 57 yards (2.19 YPC). Seriously...is that the best we can do against the Browns with their safeties playing back? I can't emphasize enough how bad that is.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-02-2017, 02:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If the safeties are playing back, that makes it really hard to go deep. Teams don't respect our ability to run, which will make it harder to open up the pass. We are currently 28th in yards per carry. Once again, it's an o-line problem.

Because we can't run block and also can't pass block longer than 2 seconds, it's forcing us to use the short passing game as basically a substitute for the run game...and to protect the QB from being sacked 8 times.

Lazor has done a fine job getting Dalton back on track and getting back in the EZ, but the run game has to get fixed. We have to figure something out to make this o-line something better than "abysmal". Start Andre Smith. Make a trade for a Center, Tackles or RG. Lazor can only use smoke and mirrors for so long. At some point, you have to be able to do better than 26 carries for 57 yards (2.19 YPC). Seriously...is that the best we can do against the Browns with their safeties playing back? I can't emphasize enough how bad that is.

Good points, all, but for the immediate future they should use quick, misdirection bootleg passes as an extension of the running game to get the ball in the hands of Mixon and Gio in space.  The straight up rushing attack up the middle is worse than taking a knee.  

Andre Smith did start at LT for, I believe, the first three series.  

[Joelist]

Actually we didn't dink and dunk. At 11 yards per completion and nearly 10 per attempt we were much more into intermediate plays. Only one try at a long pass, and I think that goes back to the OL not providing a clean pocket.

[*bengalfan74*]

Like others have said Lazor has thus far been able to mask our shortcomings to a degree. I'd guess he will be able to continue and perhaps get even a little better at it as chemistry builds.

But at the end of the day if we're only able to average 2.5 yards a carry we're going to really, really struggle down the road ! And I don't pretend to have any kind of answer for this with this O-line.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Every single one of our offensive concerns will always come down to one thing: How out offensive line plays.

Give Dalton time and he'll score points.

We haven't had a good rushing attack in like 3 years. Honestly I put most of the blame on Bodine, I don't believe he should be our center after this year.

I don't think any of our offensive lineman should be back next year, but we'll probably keep Boling, fisher and Ogbuehi still. Ogybogy is pretty athletic after all.

[muskiesfan]

You lost me at dink and dunk. I love all of the excuses on why Dalton's GREAT game yesterday should be disregarded. Garrett hasn't played all season, right? So everyone who has played Cleveland has benefited from that. If their LBs are bad at coverage, that didn't just magically happen this week.

Week 1 Ben went 24/36 (67%) for 263 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT and a passer rating of 95; best game of the year in completions, completion %, yards, and TDs, 2nd highest passer rating on the season
Week 2 Flacco went 25/34 (74%) for 217 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT and a passer rating of 97.3; best game of the year in completion %, TDs, and passer rating, second best game in yards, completions
Week 3 Brissett went 17/24 (71%) for 259 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT and a passer rating of 120; best game of the year in completion %, yards, TDs, passer rating, second best game in completions
Week 4 Dalton went 25/30 (83.3%) for 286 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INT and a passer rating of 146; best game of the year in completions, completion %, yards, TDs, and passer rating

I know the answer, but why are we only discrediting 1 of these QBs performance?