Dalton haters?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-09-2017, 11:25 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The thing is you get labeled a "Dalton hater" when you try to blame Andy for anything he does bad.

This is simply not true. You get labeled a 'Dalton hater' when you don't give Andy credit for the good things he has done and/or criticize him for things that aren't his fault and/or criticize for him things that are simply just not true.

People STILL think Dalton can't throw deep passes and that he has a weak arm when that's just not true.

[*psychdoctor*]

I am not an Andy Dalton hater. But he is inconsistent especially under pressure.

I think the new offensive coordinator has helped Andy Dalton and the offense.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-09-2017, 02:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Eli Manning, and he has two Super Bowl rings.

Fair enough, but he plays in New York. Plus the criticism dropped quite a bit when he got a ring.

I was thinking about Cincinnati sports figures though. Dalton certainly has to be at or near the top.

Dude got boo'd at a charity game for pete's sake. He's still been getting boo'd during wins. The fan base hates the guy.

If he has a good game, we're dissecting a bad throw on 2nd down from the 3rd quarter.

[Daddy-O]

(10-09-2017, 10:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton is an above average QB at his best. He'll have 2-3 really good games. 2-3 really bad games. And a bunch of average to above average games.

This game fits in the above average category.

You just pretty much provided an example of every QB in the league not name Rodgers or Brady.  

[Daddy-O]

(10-09-2017, 02:19 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Would love to see a little more urgency.

When its 3rd and 2. Dont throw the ball 10 yards out of bounds. Why not at least give someone a chance?

With a really good defense, which the Bengals have, a punt is not a bad play whereas a risking a turnover is.  Football is about field position.  Punt the ball, try to get a 3 and out and go back on the offensive.

[sandwedge]

(10-09-2017, 02:58 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: With a really good defense, which the Bengals have, a punt is not a bad play whereas a risking a turnover is.  Football is about field position.  Punt the ball, try to get a 3 and out and go back on the offensive.

Exactly proves the point of this thread. Dalton is damn if he does or doesn't. You are absolutely right Daddy-o, nobody open you toss it away and punt. Let our D stop them.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-09-2017, 02:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fair enough, but he plays in New York. Plus the criticism dropped quite a bit when he got a ring.

I was thinking about Cincinnati sports figures though. Dalton certainly has to be at or near the top.

Dude got boo'd at a charity game for pete's sake. He's still been getting boo'd during wins. The fan base hates the guy.

If he has a good game, we're dissecting a bad throw on 2nd down from the 3rd quarter.

I don’t disagree that people are over the top. I don’t care if he’s the worst QB in NFL history, you don’t boo him at a charity event or anywhere else outside of the stadium.

[sandwedge]

(10-09-2017, 02:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fair enough, but he plays in New York. Plus the criticism dropped quite a bit when he got a ring.

I was thinking about Cincinnati sports figures though. Dalton certainly has to be at or near the top.

Dude got boo'd at a charity game for pete's sake. He's still been getting boo'd during wins. The fan base hates the guy.

If he has a good game, we're dissecting a bad throw on 2nd down from the 3rd quarter.

So true! Not every pass Brady, Brees or Rodgers throws is on target. Even the great ones have a clunker of a game.... 

[bengalsfansince93]

(10-09-2017, 02:40 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This is simply not true. You get labeled a 'Dalton hater' when you don't give Andy credit for the good things he has done and/or criticize him for things that aren't his fault and/or criticize for him things that are simply just not true.

People STILL think Dalton can't throw deep passes and that he has a weak arm when that's just not true.

It is true Andy does have a weak arm compared to others.  You don't judge arm strength on deep throws that have air under it.  All NFL QBs can throw the ball 60-70 yards with enough arc .  Where you judge arm strength is on passes 20-30 yards and the zip that is on the ball. Andy is fine throwing 10 to 15 yards with zip/strength but beyond that its noticeable to me that his balls lose steam.   Don't take this as be bashing AD I'm just stating the obvious.

[The Real Deal]

(10-09-2017, 11:25 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The thing is you get labeled a "Dalton hater" when you try to blame Andy for anything he does bad. That first INT was on Andy Dalton and anyone who thinks otherwise immediately has their ability to make a sound decision called into question. The ball was high and behind AJ. He and the ball were going opposite directions and it had heat on it in the rain. Bottom line: I was a poorly thrown ball that got intercepted. All AJ did was to try to make a play.



While we are on the subject of should have caught. The Bills' defender should have caught that last throw Andy put right in his breadbasket. That happens and there's a very good chance yesterday's game has a different outcome.

These two paragraphs by you are:

laughable.

Are you trying to say that the defender that should have intercepted the pass was not going in the opppsite direction of the ball just as you say AJ was? Because if my memory serves me correctly, and it does, the defender was going across the screen Left to right pretty quickly. However the ball hit him in his left shoulder pad. Bad decision to throw that pass from Andy? No doubt about it. But to imply that he should have absolutely caught that INT, but at the same time place full blame on dalton and let AJ off the hook for not catching the pass intended for him that was a little off the mark?

Laughable.

[firstand10]

My,My,how things have changed! A week ago everybody seemed to be on Daltons case about his QB performance. Now a few of you seem to be backing up a little. What happened? My take on this is, let's see how the season unfolds and where the team ends up. If it turns around, then I'll be one of the first to eat "Crow"

[The Real Deal]

(10-09-2017, 03:33 PM)firstand10 Wrote: My,My,how things have changed! A week ago everybody seemed to be on Daltons case about his QB performance. Now a few of you seem to be backing up a little. What happened? My take on this is, let's see how the season unfolds and where the team ends up. If it turns around, then I'll be one of the first to eat "Crow"

Does anyone care if a waffler eats crow?

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 03:22 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: These two paragraphs by you are:

laughable.

Are you trying to say that the defender that should have intercepted the pass was not going in the opppsite direction of the ball just as you say AJ was? Because if my memory serves me correctly, and it does, the defender was going across the screen right to left pretty quickly. However the ball hit him in his left shoulder pad. Bad decision to throw that pass from Andy? No doubt about it. But to imply that he should have absolutely caught that INT, but at the same time place full blame on dalton and let AJ off the hook for not catching the pass intended for him that was a little off the mark?

Laughable.

I am saying the first INT was the result of  poorly thrown ball by Andy Dalton. Feel free to laugh if you want. 

I am saying the final throw by Andy Dalton could have easily been intercepted. Once again feel free to laugh.

The second INT was completely on AJ. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 03:13 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: It is true Andy does have a weak arm compared to others.  You don't judge arm strength on deep throws that have air under it.  All NFL QBs can throw the ball 60-70 yards with enough arc .  Where you judge arm strength is on passes 20-30 yards and the zip that is on the ball. Andy is fine throwing 10 to 15 yards with zip/strength but beyond that its noticeable to me that his balls lose steam.   Don't take this as be bashing AD I'm just stating the obvious.

I cannot speak of Andy's arm strength; I can only go by what those paid to assess such things claim.

I will say that the weakest arm in the NFL is most likely the strongest arm any of us have seen in real life. I served with a guy that played at a small school college program. The guy's arm was incredible, he would wow folks with his throws. 

Now this was a nobody from nowhere. I'm sure a player such as Andy would amaze layman that witnessed it. I will agree that the ability to throw a long ball is no indicator of arm strength. How much zip can you put on that 10 yard out throwing off your back foot or on the move. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-09-2017, 03:13 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: It is true Andy does have a weak arm compared to others.  You don't judge arm strength on deep throws that have air under it.  All NFL QBs can throw the ball 60-70 yards with enough arc .  Where you judge arm strength is on passes 20-30 yards and the zip that is on the ball. Andy is fine throwing 10 to 15 yards with zip/strength but beyond that its noticeable to me that his balls lose steam.   Don't take this as be bashing AD I'm just stating the obvious.

Weak arm compared to WHICH others? Yeah, he doesn't have the arm strength of a Favre or Jamarcus Russell, but he's no Chad Pennington either. ESPN's Sport Science did a show during his draft year, with a segment and compared the QBs velocity (the velocity of their passes) with each other. Dalton's was exactly the same as Cam Newton's. I've never heard anyone say Cam lacked arm strength.

In any event, what you have said, I would not call you a Dalton hater because you've at least attempted to be reasonable and rational with your reasoning, but I would not also necessarily call it "stating the obvious".

[*michaelsean*]

(10-09-2017, 03:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am saying the first INT was the result of  poorly thrown ball by Andy Dalton. Feel free to laugh if you want. 

I am saying the final throw by Andy Dalton could have easily been intercepted. Once again feel free to laugh.

The second INT was completely on AJ. 

The first was was definitely on Andy.  

[Bengalbug]

(10-09-2017, 03:13 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: It is true Andy does have a weak arm compared to others.  You don't judge arm strength on deep throws that have air under it.  All NFL QBs can throw the ball 60-70 yards with enough arc .  Where you judge arm strength is on passes 20-30 yards and the zip that is on the ball. Andy is fine throwing 10 to 15 yards with zip/strength but beyond that its noticeable to me that his balls lose steam.   Don't take this as be bashing AD I'm just stating the obvious.

Eh, I'm not sure what to believe.tom house recently said Andy has dramatically increased his arm strength.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000812303/article/qb-guru-dalton-seeing-big-jump-in-his-arm-strength

[*PhilHos*]

(10-09-2017, 03:13 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: You don't judge arm strength on deep throws that have air under it. 

(10-09-2017, 03:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I cannot speak of Andy's arm strength; I can only go by what those paid to assess such things claim.

I will say that the weakest arm in the NFL is most likely the strongest arm any of us have seen in real life. I served with a guy that played at a small school college program. The guy's arm was incredible, he would wow folks with his throws. 

Now this was a nobody from nowhere. I'm sure a player such as Andy would amaze layman that witnessed it. I will agree that the ability to throw a long ball is no indicator of arm strength. How much zip can you put on that 10 yard out throwing off your back foot or on the move. 

Forgot to add, I wasn't saying deep passes mean arm strength hence why I separated the 2:
People STILL think Dalton can't throw deep passes and that he has a weak arm when that's just not true.


The fact remains that Dalton CAN throw deep passes - better than most QBs in the league today - AND he doesn't have a weak arm (or the more poplular vernacular of "noodle arm").

[THE PISTONS]

(10-09-2017, 03:10 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Exactly proves the point of this thread. Dalton is damn if he does or doesn't. You are absolutely right Daddy-o, nobody open you toss it away and punt. Let our D stop them.

Aren't all great players who play for the Bengals on offense?

Palmer? Pickens? Dillon? All villainized.

IF the team actually had a Center that could run block and could run the ball, there would be less pressure on Dalton.

[PDub80]

(10-09-2017, 02:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Dalton has always been a good QB, period. Better since 2015 of course, but he's always been good. 

Good QB's have bad days. People just need to come to grips with that. You name me any QB in any season, and I'll show you at least a couple bad games. Possibly 3-4 or more depending on the season. There is no QB who is always good, all the time. 

I just wish people would accept Dalton as what he is. Not elite (top 5) but very good (top 12ish). Stop redefining his legacy with every throw, every game. If he throws a 50 yard rope on the run, it doesn't make him Aaron Rodgers. If he tosses a few high and has an off game, it doesn't mean he's a scrub. Ever since we drafted this guy, literally everything has been overreaction city. I've never seen a more scrutinized player in my entire life.

Being good every single game time and being a good or great QB do not go hand in hand. I get it that AD is going to have some bad games. All players do.

Andy was horrific the first 2 games of this season and it cost the team 2 wins. Andy has had horrifically... catastrophically... historically bad games. Not every Qb has games that are THAT bad THAT often. Hes been inconsistent with wild swings in performance like this every season he's been in the league with the EXCEPTION of 2015. 2015 is NOT the RULE it's the EXCEPTION. This season and last clearly prove that. He was the iceberg into the Titanic the first 2 games, okay in the 2nd (1 good half, 1 crap half), and great against the Browns and Bills. That's really easy to understand.

I think your last statement is sensationalizing. There have been a lot of players more scrutinized than Andy Dalton. That's incredibly sensitive. Some people have an ax to grind, yes, but others have an ax they keep trying to polish. It goes both ways.

Hell, just in Cincinnati, Joey Votto is a MUCH better baseball player than Andy Dalton is a QB and a lot of the fans here have spent most of his career crapping all over the guy.

Personally, I would NEVER boo Andy Dalton. I think he's an awesome person and a really good, but inconsistent QB. Besides, I don't see how booing him helps him to play any better. I feel like he's just going to keep getting better and break through, but that doesn't mean I'm going to talk as if he has. He's just now in his prime. He can improve.