PFF Highlights, Bengals vs. Bills

[THE PISTONS]

(10-10-2017, 10:44 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Did anyone see the rookie center from Ohio State get pushed violently back into Bradford last night? Eiflein was manhandled. My point is they all get beat by good DL's at times.Yet many will say how great Eiflein is when in reality he looked good pulling, but sucked on one on one DL blocking.

Elflein grades out at 55.6 by PFF which is Poor.

Bodine grades out at 43.3 which is also Poor.

Elflein would still be a considerable upgrade. Neither are even Average.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-10-2017, 01:34 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: How is this man not employed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Mangold

Is he hurt? Too old?(33) Washed up? Wants too much money?

I can't believe he's not on a roster somewhere. I wonder what the problem is? If he's healthy and has anything left in the tank, the Bengals sure could use his services. Does Marvin still think the line will be fine?

He was starting to decline and be injured all the time. He'd still be an upgrade to Bodine.

From PFF in March: Nick Mangold’s decline is definitely underway, but he is coming down from a point of being the unquestioned best center in the league, so even now, he should still be able to start and perform well for a team for at least a season as a stopgap at center. Mangold isn’t the run blocker he once was, but he hasn’t allowed a sack in his last 33 games, and has surrendered just one in the past four seasons. A strong, experienced center can anchor and transform an offensive line, so Mangold could provide some short-term stability to a unit in need of an interior presence.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-10-veteran-free-agents-worth-a-one-year-contract

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2017, 12:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: ML has stated over and over again he does not agree with PFF rankings and they don't use them to evaluate performance. So whatever they use, they must disagree with PFF unless we think they Bengals coaching staff wants to lose. I don't buy that narrative. Again, I am not defending Bodine but using PFF as a sole source to evaluate performance and ignoring the coaches who evaluate every play made and understood 100% the player's responsibility is short sided in my opinion. People in this forum hated Peko, called him a POS players so the best defense in the NFL signs him to his biggest contract yet (even though he has aged) so again are the fans the dummies or are John Elway and Tobin the dummies?

People down on Peko were down primarily on his (lack of) ability to rush the passer. Also, the Bengals were 23rd in rush yards allowed per attempt (4.4) and 21st in rushing yards per game (113.3) last year, so he didn't seem to be making much of an impact.

Fast forward to 2017 where the Bengals are now 12th in rush yards allowed per attempt (3.8) and 15th in rushing yards allowed per game (103.2).
Denver is #1 both, and Peko has been a valuable part of that.

Both teams have improved in their run defense compared to last year. Also worth noting that Bengals were 19th in sacks last year at 33, and this year they are 2nd at 18. So not only has the run defense improved some but the pass rush has improved a ton. Peko has 0 sacks this year too, showing that he is still a liability as a pass rusher. Sometimes it does benefit both teams for a veteran to move on.

[Hoofhearted]

(10-10-2017, 12:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: ML has stated over and over again he does not agree with PFF rankings and they don't use them to evaluate performance. So whatever they use, they must disagree with PFF unless we think they Bengals coaching staff wants to lose. I don't buy that narrative. Again, I am not defending Bodine but using PFF as a sole source to evaluate performance and ignoring the coaches who evaluate every play made and understood 100% the player's responsibility is short sided in my opinion. People in this forum hated Peko, called him a POS players so the best defense in the NFL signs him to his biggest contract yet (even though he has aged) so again are the fans the dummies or are John Elway and Tobin the dummies?

Or they're complacent? 

[Hoofhearted]

(10-10-2017, 02:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: People down on Peko were down primarily on his (lack of) ability to rush the passer. Also, the Bengals were 23rd in rush yards allowed per attempt (4.4) and 21st in rushing yards per game (113.3) last year, so he didn't seem to be making much of an impact.

Fast forward to 2017 where the Bengals are now 12th in rush yards allowed per attempt (3.8) and 15th in rushing yards allowed per game (103.2).
Denver is #1 both, and Peko has been a valuable part of that.

Both teams have improved in their run defense compared to last year. Also worth noting that Bengals were 19th in sacks last year at 33, and this year they are 2nd at 18. So not only has the run defense improved some but the pass rush has improved a ton. Peko has 0 sacks this year too, showing that he is still a liability as a pass rusher. Sometimes it does benefit both teams for a veteran to move on.

It also doesn't hurt his playing time was pretty much cut in half there. 

[XenoMorph]

(10-10-2017, 01:34 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: How is this man not employed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Mangold

Is he hurt? Too old?(33) Washed up? Wants too much money?

I can't believe he's not on a roster somewhere. I wonder what the problem is? If he's healthy and has anything left in the tank, the Bengals sure could use his services. Does Marvin still think the line will be fine?

Mangold recently said something about his foot not letting him play right now.

[XenoMorph]

(10-10-2017, 02:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: People down on Peko were down primarily on his (lack of) ability to rush the passer. Also, the Bengals were 23rd in rush yards allowed per attempt (4.4) and 21st in rushing yards per game (113.3) last year, so he didn't seem to be making much of an impact.

Fast forward to 2017 where the Bengals are now 12th in rush yards allowed per attempt (3.8) and 15th in rushing yards allowed per game (103.2).
Denver is #1 both, and Peko has been a valuable part of that.

Both teams have improved in their run defense compared to last year. Also worth noting that Bengals were 19th in sacks last year at 33, and this year they are 2nd at 18. So not only has the run defense improved some but the pass rush has improved a ton. Peko has 0 sacks this year too, showing that he is still a liability as a pass rusher. Sometimes it does benefit both teams for a veteran to move on.

Maybe peko is a part of that but he wasn't doing that good of a job of it here.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2017, 02:28 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It also doesn't hurt his playing time was pretty much cut in half there. 

Somewhat yes.
He played 54.5% of the defensive snaps for the Bengals last year.
This year with Denver, he's played 41% of the defensive snaps.
So not quite half, but a noticeable reduction.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2017, 02:49 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Maybe peko is a part of that but he wasn't doing that good of a job of it here.

That's kind of what I was trying to get at. Just because he was/is good one place doesn't mean he would be good somewhere else.

[TheUberHuber]

(10-10-2017, 02:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: People down on Peko were down primarily on his (lack of) ability to rush the passer. Also, the Bengals were 23rd in rush yards allowed per attempt (4.4) and 21st in rushing yards per game (113.3) last year, so he didn't seem to be making much of an impact.

Fast forward to 2017 where the Bengals are now 12th in rush yards allowed per attempt (3.8) and 15th in rushing yards allowed per game (103.2).
Denver is #1 both, and Peko has been a valuable part of that.

Both teams have improved in their run defense compared to last year. Also worth noting that Bengals were 19th in sacks last year at 33, and this year they are 2nd at 18. So not only has the run defense improved some but the pass rush has improved a ton. Peko has 0 sacks this year too, showing that he is still a liability as a pass rusher. Sometimes it does benefit both teams for a veteran to move on.

I think this a tiny bit misleading. 

1st, peko is run stopping nose tackle type where getting tackles and sacks is not his primary job. His primary job is to plug the gap creating no space for the runner to run through.  This can make grading using a site like pff difficult. He was never going to be a sack machine either he weighs like a million pounds lol.

2nd, being a nose tackle type makes it also difficult to judge his effect on the run game by using overall ypc. He wouldn't have an impact on counter run plays and pitches to the outside. I would be interested to see if they have a stat on just runs up the middle when he was in the game. Also, I think overall ypc has more to do with linebacking corp which ours it seems is playing at a higher level this year.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2017, 04:58 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I think this a tiny bit misleading. 

1st, peko is run stopping nose tackle type where getting tackles and sacks is not his primary job. His primary job is to plug the gap creating no space for the runner to run through.  This can make grading using a site like pff difficult. He was never going to be a sack machine either he weighs like a million pounds lol.

2nd, being a nose tackle type makes it also difficult to judge his effect on the run game by using overall ypc. He wouldn't have an impact on counter run plays and pitches to the outside. I would be interested to see if they have a stat on just runs up the middle when he was in the game. Also, I think overall ypc has more to do with linebacking corp which ours it seems is playing at a higher level this year.

Fair enough, but I'm not going to go watch every single snap of every game that NTs play in to determine who is better or not. I don't have the interest nor time to do so. So I'm going to use statistics to help determine that much faster, even if they are slightly misleading.

Bottom line: Bengals run defense and pass rush are both better this year and Peko is not on the team. As long as it's better, I don't care who is here and who is not.

[Brimey]

I have noticed a noticeable improvement when Glasgow is in vs last year with Peko. The D line is not getting pushed back like they used to

[McC]

(10-10-2017, 12:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: ML has stated over and over again he does not agree with PFF rankings and they don't use them to evaluate performance. So whatever they use, they must disagree with PFF unless we think they Bengals coaching staff wants to lose. I don't buy that narrative. Again, I am not defending Bodine but using PFF as a sole source to evaluate performance and ignoring the coaches who evaluate every play made and understood 100% the player's responsibility is short sided in my opinion. People in this forum hated Peko, called him a POS players so the best defense in the NFL signs him to his biggest contract yet (even though he has aged) so again are the fans the dummies or are John Elway and Tobin the dummies?

Don't need no stinking numbers.  Just watch Jeffro play and the truth is evident. 

[*Synric*]

Peko play definitely declined in Cincinnati over the last couple of seasons.

Maybe switching from a 4-3 single gap pentrating defense scheme to a 3-4 two game scheme plus in a heavier rotation has helped revitalize the end of career.

[Joelist]

Peko is prospering in Denver in part because he is ideal for a 3-4 two gap NT position. Add in Denver having more depth there and he is in a good place. I'm glad for him.

[Joelist]

As to our OL, do we have complete line rankings? I know Bodine was epically bad and TJ Johnson was having issues too (remember who got Andy injured by rolling his ankle).