Posts: 5,548
Threads: 199
Reputation:
25210
Joined: May 2015
Location: Boise, ID
While the running game may not be putting up great numbers, they must be doing something right, because the play action game has been pretty substantial since Lazor has taken over.
I'm excited to see more use of play action, and excited to see how that effects the running game. Andy's play action passes from under center seem to be working wonders from what I've seen.
I feel that this teams use of the pass will eventually open up running lanes too.
Much to be excited for!
Posts: 14,997
Threads: 121
Reputation:
47901
Joined: May 2015
Location: Hyborea
I admit I'm surprised we can play action at all given our inability to run.
Posts: 1,606
Threads: 5
Reputation:
4560
Joined: Oct 2016
(10-10-2017, 04:30 PM)Joelist Wrote: I admit I'm surprised we can play action at all given our inability to run.
Yeah .. the only thing I can think of is the play calling is a little less predictable and teams are probably still like "Oh look, it's 1st down and Jeremy hill is in, they must be running it."
Posts: 15,754
Threads: 164
Reputation:
23107
Joined: May 2015
I wish Andy could perform a better fake, and try to pump fake too.
#FIRELOU
Posts: 14,997
Threads: 121
Reputation:
47901
Joined: May 2015
Location: Hyborea
His fakes are just fine. I guess you missed the play in the game where Andy faked out the entire Buffalo LB corps and hit Uzomah for 21 yards.
Posts: 15,754
Threads: 164
Reputation:
23107
Joined: May 2015
No, they're not. He probably pump fakes twice a year, and his play action passes are like 1 yard away from the RB. There are many QBs who perform play action fakes better (regardless if they have a running game or not). Andy's play action fake is just a waste of 0.5 seconds in his drop back, which counts for something because of the subpar offensive line. The only reason a defense would fall for one of his fakes is because the pre-snap formation looked like a run (or Jeremy Hill is in).
#FIRELOU
Posts: 15,754
Threads: 164
Reputation:
23107
Joined: May 2015
One type of pump that he doesn't fake out, is the gasoline pump.
Here, he drove away from a gas station with the pump still attached. "That's our quarter-back" *cry*
http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/andy-dalton-drove-gas-station-pump-connected
#FIRELOU
Posts: 8,491
Threads: 28
Reputation:
96580
Joined: May 2015
Boomer Esiason should give seminars on the play action fake.
He was the best at it.
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam.
Roam the Jungle !
Posts: 13,444
Threads: 132
Reputation:
89253
Joined: May 2015
(10-10-2017, 10:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: No, they're not. He probably pump fakes twice a year, and his play action passes are like 1 yard away from the RB. There are many QBs who perform play action fakes better (regardless if they have a running game or not). Andy's play action fake is just a waste of 0.5 seconds in his drop back, which counts for something because of the subpar offensive line. The only reason a defense would fall for one of his fakes is because the pre-snap formation looked like a run (or Jeremy Hill is in).
He had problems with his play action fake early in his career. The same with most QBs coming out of college because of the offenses they run. But Dalton has improved in this area for a few years now and actually looks decent doing it. If he had a run game that actually scared defenses it would look alot better...
As for pump fakes it takes large hands so you don't lose the football and they cause strip fumbles often...
Posts: 5,548
Threads: 199
Reputation:
25210
Joined: May 2015
Location: Boise, ID
(10-10-2017, 05:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I wish Andy could perform a better fake, and try to pump fake too.
Must have missed the Bills game, there were some great play action fakes in that game.
Part of Andy's play action issues is that they have recently run a lot of looks from the gun. I personally feel that PA works way better under center. Much more convincing as the QB's back is turned to the Defense. Riskier I suppose, but more effective.
Dalton had a fine pump action motion a few years back. However, I think the ball left his hand and counted as a fumble at one point. Ever since then, he hasn't attempted. I'm assuming the coaches said DONT DO THAT AGAIN EVEN IF IT WORKS MORE THAN IT FAILS!
Posts: 17,092
Threads: 237
Reputation:
133589
Joined: Oct 2015
(10-10-2017, 05:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I wish Andy could perform a better fake, and try to pump fake too.
(10-10-2017, 10:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: No, they're not. He probably pump fakes twice a year, and his play action passes are like 1 yard away from the RB. There are many QBs who perform play action fakes better (regardless if they have a running game or not). Andy's play action fake is just a waste of 0.5 seconds in his drop back, which counts for something because of the subpar offensive line. The only reason a defense would fall for one of his fakes is because the pre-snap formation looked like a run (or Jeremy Hill is in).
Ignoring your complaint on his play action fake, which is fine... you say .5 seconds counts for something, but then you also say you want him to try and pump fake more, which would have the same problem of using up time that the OL isn't giving him. You're counteracting your own complaints.
Maybe... just maybe, you're complaining about Dalton for the sake of complaining about Dalton.
____________________________________________________________
Posts: 889
Threads: 36
Reputation:
5042
Joined: May 2015
Location: California
(10-10-2017, 10:42 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Boomer Esiason should give seminars on the play action fake.
He was the best at it.
He was one of a kind....i don't get why it's so difficult to execute.
Posts: 208
Threads: 2
Reputation:
1307
Joined: May 2015
(10-11-2017, 02:00 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: He was one of a kind....i don't get why it's so difficult to execute.
It isn't difficult, but .... you've got to have a really good OL to make it work like Boomer did. Remember that he completely turned his back to the OL on every running play and on every play action pass.
He had complete confidence in his line and knew that they'd never let him be crushed by someone he couldn't see.
Dalton has never had the same quality of OL that Boomer did.
Posts: 15,754
Threads: 164
Reputation:
23107
Joined: May 2015
(10-11-2017, 12:37 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ignoring your complaint on his play action fake, which is fine... you say .5 seconds counts for something, but then you also say you want him to try and pump fake more, which would have the same problem of using up time that the OL isn't giving him. You're counteracting your own complaints.
Maybe... just maybe, you're complaining about Dalton for the sake of complaining about Dalton.
No, I like Dalton, and I'm saying a pump fake would be more rewarding than his poor playaction fake, it's compounded by a poor running game. Andy Dalton does not pump fake, if there was such a statistic he'd probably average 1 every 8 games. When you've got rookies guarding AJ Green and they fall for his in and out fakes, it works, but it would help if Andy faked or even looked another way. In college he'd at least twist his shoulders, so there's no reason to think it's because he can't hold the ball on a pump.
A high percentage of AJ's passes are stared down, there's no progression to AJ, defenders know the ball is coming (hence tighter coverage/picks).
Granted he barely has time to do anything (pump or even work a progression) behind that line, but even when he had a good line he rarely pumped. He's no Ben R. in that facet.
In regards to the play action fake, yeah Boomer was the best, but there are other QBs who at least complete the motion with an empty hand. I think a pump fake in that time would work better than his poorly performed playaction. You can tell he's performing it just because the play calls for it, not because he wants to do it to the best of his ability lol - he's afraid the defenders are right there.
We only need 17 points a game to make it competitive, so small things like that (not turning the ball over so much), and hitting FGs from distance matter. We need an automatic 45-50 yard FG kicker if Fat boy isn't that.
#FIRELOU
Posts: 1,309
Threads: 35
Reputation:
6617
Joined: May 2015
(10-10-2017, 10:42 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Boomer Esiason should give seminars on the play action fake.
He was the best at it.
Yes he was, would tuck that ball into his gut and the defense had no clue. But he also had a top notch running game to keep the LB's and safeties honest. We don't have that - yet.
Posts: 19,571
Threads: 629
Reputation:
84095
Joined: Oct 2016
The whole point of a playaction fake is to fake a run...we're TERRIBLE running the ball and TERRIBLE run blocking. It doesn't hold much weight.
Posts: 11,615
Threads: 131
Reputation:
59067
Joined: May 2015
A lot of times Qb's don't really put the ball in the pocket because of the look they see pre snap. So they know going to the line that pressure is coming so rather than selling the full fake they abort the fake for the most part and get into their drop. You see Andy do this from time to time, but it's not because he can't execute a fake it's because he is expecting someone to come in unblocked so he has to go quicker than expected. When he wants to he can sell it as good as anyone, see the play where he faked the zone read and through it behind the linebackers who bit up on the run action.
|
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: image.gif.f0c2fdfbee928741dbfa5ce1eccafe9a.gif]](https://dtb3yzl0vm3pr.cloudfront.net/monthly_2023_09/image.gif.f0c2fdfbee928741dbfa5ce1eccafe9a.gif)
