Yes, our OL is that bad - It's not your imagination

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-16-2017, 11:01 AM)Wyche Wrote: You mean like when some of us thought Zampese should have never been promoted to OC in the first place?  Or that he should have been fired after last season?  Or how about those of us that said Ced O and Fish were not ready?  Or maybe the ones calling out Alexander for wanting them, and Blodine, and then not coaching any of the three up were the fickle idiots?

Now come on Wyche, you do have to watch a lot of practice to understand fully what happens in live games.

I mean when you see our line on running plays and 3 or 4 defenders meet the running back in the back field way more often than not how would you ever be able to figure out our O-line sucks without watching practice ?

[Shake n Blake]

(10-16-2017, 11:01 AM)Wyche Wrote: You mean like when some of us thought Zampese should have never been promoted to OC in the first place?  Or that he should have been fired after last season?  Or how about those of us that said Ced O and Fish were not ready?  Or maybe the ones calling out Alexander for wanting them, and Blodine, and then not coaching any of the three up were the fickle idiots?

From the Zampese hiring thread:

Quote:Shake n Blake

Don't love it, don't hate it. It does feel like settling though. If Zampese were a good candidate, why wasn't he hired instead of Jay or Hue?

At least it's not Paul Alexander or Bratkowski.

Quote:Wyche

Swell.....one of the Merry Band of Tenured Bums. 

Quote:Wes Mantooth

I find it a bit odd that in 12 years of being a QB coach he was never lured away to be an OC.  And 2e had an opportunity to promote him both in 2010 and 2014.  Yet we passed him over.  Why?  

I'm guessing this hire was based more on the idea that this franchise is run like a Mom and Pop hardware store than them actually reviewing all the potential candidates, and determining that Ken Zampese has the most potential for success.

Quote:GodFather

You read everywhere how Tom House really helped Andy in the offseason with his mechanics, etc. I never hear how great of a job Zampese is doing. This is another classic example of laziness in the front office

Quote:GreenCornBengal

I've always thought he was a POS, so it will be interesting to see if my opinion translates onto the field.

Not happy about this hire.

Plus all the other things you mention. Plus being right about Marvin and Mike all these years. Plus being right about "model model" being a load of horse ****. I'm not much for gloating, but in all my years on these boards, I've been right FAR more often than I've been wrong.

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2017, 12:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Wasn't he injured? Or never recovered after an injury?

Nope.

He was injured in '12 and missed the first of the year. Came back to play on last 4. We did that crazy Center rotation thing for a couple games then Kyle took back the starting role.

He played and started all 16 games in '13, we cut him before the '14 season. 

[TheUberHuber]

(10-16-2017, 04:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope.

He was injured in '12 and missed the first of the year. Came back to play on last 4. We did that crazy Center rotation thing for a couple games then Kyle took back the starting role.

He played and started all 16 games in '13, we cut him before the '14 season. 

We cut him in March which is odd. Maybe they already knew they were going to draft bodine idk. Either way, bodine was definitely NOT an upgrade from cook who was undrafted and mediocre. 

[Beaker]

(10-15-2017, 08:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How did I know that you'd take the easy way out and pick something that wasn't discussed in this thread.

Let's re-ask: What specifically IN THIS THREAD have people whined about that has proven not true.

Let me sum some of it:

1 ) The Bengals draft guys that don't play Year 1 which doesn't help us.
2 ) The line is bad.
3 ) The Bengals shouldn't have let Zeitler and Whitworth walk.
4 ) The Bengals need to use free agency
5 ) The Bengals are complacent and see positions that need upgraded and do nothing.
6 ) Ross was a bad pick because he is small and had a lot of injury red flags
7 ) Letting guys walk and citing compensatory picks is stupid

First, my assertion that fans are fixated on instant gratification is a general statement which applies to more than this thread. So applying that logic over more than a few issues in this thread is valid. Second, it is a trend I have noticed over years of watching our team, and then being on here reading the posts. I will try in the future to write down or remember examples as they come up to be able to provide you with more evidence. But addressing your points above:

1) The only guy the Bengals drafted that they knew would not likely play year 1 was Ogbuehi due to his injury. Most other recent cases have been due to the luxury of having good players already in place which the new guys could watch and learn.
2) The OL is below par....but improving. The 2 young tackles have been having a harder time than anticipated. But bad OL has become a problem for more teams in the NFL than just the Bengals. Lap was commenting on how colleges have gotten away from asking their OTs to do the things they will be expected to do in the NFL. Many recent OL picks have performed below expectations. OL used to be the safest draft pick, and has now become one of the biggest crapshoots.
3) The Bengals made a comparable offer to Whit, although it was one year instead of 2. And there is no way they should have paid Zeitler $12M per year like the browns did. 
4) When you say the Bengals need to use FA, I am guessing you mean paying for "big name" FAs early in the game. You and I will have to disagree on this one. I don't think too many highly paid FAs have made the difference on their new teams. Sure, there are examples, but for the most part, FA has been a risky proposition, and costs you a lot more in cap room and salary than a draft pick bust.
5) The Bengals D was old and slow. They went out and got faster more athletic guys over the past two years...and they are playing them. That is not complacency.
6) We won't know if Ross was a bad pick for 2 or 3 years. That's your opinion at this point.
7) Letting guys walk is not stupid, overpaying and getting into cap trouble is stupid. It is easy for fans to scream "pay him" since it isn't their money.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-16-2017, 04:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope.

He was injured in '12 and missed the first of the year. Came back to play on last 4. We did that crazy Center rotation thing for a couple games then Kyle took back the starting role.

He played and started all 16 games in '13, we cut him before the '14 season. 

I seem to recall a major drop off in play after he came back from that injury, but maybe that's just me.

[Joelist]

Cook was barely average before the injury and well below average after it. But Bodine is actually worse - in Eric Ghiacuc territory.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Kyle Cook was god awful. was a slight upgrade over Eric Guiachec which is still bad.

[*bfine32*]

The debate over who is better Cook or Bodine is moot; as the the reason we cut him.

I merely pointed out we cut our most recent ex-center in response to a post stating we never do so.

Bengals took a shot. Cut an underperforming vet to sign a high draft choice rookie.

[Housh]

(10-14-2017, 07:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Depending on where we draft we may actually be active in Free agency this year to fix this group.

Lol!!

[The Caped Crusader]

(10-16-2017, 11:17 AM)PV Bengal Wrote: If Shitsburg plays us like they did KC, we are f-in DOOMED next Sunday.

Agreed. KC looked helpless most of the game...sad thing is? They could've won that game too. They won on a fluke tip ball. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-17-2017, 07:57 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Agreed. KC looked helpless most of the game...sad thing is? They could've won that game too. They won on a fluke tip ball. 

I think 80% of NFL games you can look at them and say either team could have won had 1-3 plays went differently. That's just how it is.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-16-2017, 11:17 AM)PV Bengal Wrote: If Shitsburg plays us like they did KC, we are f-in DOOMED next Sunday.

Not true at all.  The Bengals have a better defense than KC, and the Chiefs were living on an excellent rushing attack that pitt geared their defense to stuff.  Forced Alex Smith to beat them....and he struggled for most of the game.  

Dalton has beat pitt before.  Knocked their ass out of the playoff race, in pitt, no less.  

Even if pitt gives their best game, it is going to be a slug fest.  

No one....no one puts up 30 points on this defense.  If they win, it will be something like 20-17.  

[THE PISTONS]

(10-16-2017, 07:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The debate over who is better Cook or Bodine is moot; as the the reason we cut him.

I merely pointed out we cut our most recent ex-center in response to a post stating we never do so.

Bengals took a shot. Cut an underperforming vet to sign a high draft choice rookie.

I don't consider a 4th Round pick to be a 'high draft choice' rookie.

The odds of a 4th Rounder coming in Year 1 and starting and being an upgrade at Center are low.

[Derrick]

(10-14-2017, 03:49 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ran across this article today and it confirms that our OL just plain sucks.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/10/13/16462840/pff-ranks-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-bengals-30th

Here are some interesting quotes:



Russell Bodine 43.3, 28th ranked Center

Jake Fisher 42.6, 58th ranked Tackle
Cedric Ogbuehi 40.6, 60th ranked Tackle

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/10/19/16488670/bye-week-ly-lineman-quantifying-every-bengals-offensive-linemans-performance-so-far

Here is the Bengals Oline Stats By the Numbers thru week 6..

[THE PISTONS]

(10-19-2017, 09:37 PM)Derrick Wrote: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/10/19/16488670/bye-week-ly-lineman-quantifying-every-bengals-offensive-linemans-performance-so-far

Here is the Bengals Oline Stats By the Numbers thru week 6..

Andre Smith is nearly just as bad as Ced and Fisher.

[Derrick]

(10-14-2017, 07:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Depending on where we draft we may actually be active in Free agency this year to fix this group.

We can only hope!

[THE PISTONS]

(10-17-2017, 10:17 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Not true at all.  The Bengals have a better defense than KC, and the Chiefs were living on an excellent rushing attack that pitt geared their defense to stuff.  Forced Alex Smith to beat them....and he struggled for most of the game.  

Dalton has beat pitt before.  Knocked their ass out of the playoff race, in pitt, no less.  

Even if pitt gives their best game, it is going to be a slug fest.  

No one....no one puts up 30 points on this defense.  If they win, it will be something like 20-17.  

Yeah...I think the only way that we'll give up 30 points is if our offense turns the ball over a lot.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-20-2017, 09:49 PM)Derrick Wrote: We can only hope!

I don't see us spending a lot in free agency on the offensive line. You may see them bring in a Travelle Wharton type Guard for $4-5 million a year. They'll likely draft a Center.

You won't see them spend a lot though with Dunlap, Atkins, Dennard set to be free agents after the following season. They'll keep a reserve to keep those guys.

[McC]

(10-20-2017, 11:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't see us spending a lot in free agency on the offensive line. You may see them bring in a Travelle Wharton type Guard for $4-5 million a year. They'll likely draft a Center.

You won't see them spend a lot though with Dunlap, Atkins, Dennard set to be free agents after the following season. They'll keep a reserve to keep those guys.

Yeah.  Won't go first round on a C, though, even if one is worthy and sitting there. 

A lot probably depends on what happens the rest of the year and Lazor's ability to work around the problem.  We'll get a real good look at that come Sunday.

But, either way, there won't be any Pro Bowler types signed.  On that you can be sure.  But there is a lot between PBer and what we have that would be an upgrade.

As others have mentioned, it seems like shitty lines are more the norm and good lines are rare any more.  If BL can steer this offense into the playoffs, which is what it comes down to, since we know the D is worthy, he is genius.  And if that happens, maybe not much changes up front. 

Of course if he does get us to the playoffs, somebody gonna come steal him away.

So, to make a long story short(IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT!), yes, I agree.