It's almost Halloween- We need Chuckie

[Shake n Blake]

(10-30-2017, 03:10 PM)WiregrassBenGal Wrote: The thing is;

Jon Gruden wasn't that good of a coach. I lived in central Florida from 1994 through 2006. Tony Dungy and the owners built a team around defense and the offense wasn't getting good until 2001 or so. Then Tony got fired, Jon came in an inherited the team with the ferocious defense and better offense to get them into the super bowl and beat the tar out of the team he had coached the year before.

Then in 2003, they "defended" their SB title by going 7-9. Oh yeah, one of the losses was to the Tony Dungy-led Colts who, on a Monday night game put up 21 points in five minutes or something like that to beat the Bucs in overtime. That must have felt really good to Tony.

The year after the Bucs were even worse, going 5-11 or something. In 2005 they did manage to win the division (lost in the first round) and then they nosedived again to 4-12 before scraping another winning season together in 2007 and again losing as a wild card in the first round. He was drummed out of Tampa shortly after and has been in the broadcast booth ever since. Does that sound good to anybody?

I've never understood some of these anti-Gruden arguments.

1. Dungy didn't build that Bucs team. Sam Wyche did. It was Wyche that drafted Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch and Chidi Ahanotu...staples of the defense.

2. Gruden didn't really inherit an improving offense. The Bucs were 26th in total offense in 2001 and scored only 9 points in their playoff game that year. They had no QB (Shaun King wasn't the answer). Gruden landed them a QB (Brad Johnson) and while they didn't improve much in regular season (24th in yards), they averaged 35.3 points on their SuperBowl run.

3. People for some reason forget that Gruden was very successful in Oakland, going to an AFC title game and losing to the Pats the following year thanks to the dumb tuck rule. They were considered SB contenders. He turned Rich Gannon from an unheralded backup into an MVP candidate. 

4. If Gruden doesn't get credit for the championship with "Dungy's team", why does Dungy always get credit for winning one with the Colts? Didn't Dungy inherit Peyton Manning? Do we give Gruden SB credit for the Raiders making it there after he left?
 
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Bottom line is Dungy went 2-4 in the playoffs with that great defense, averaging 9.8 PPG in those games. They clearly needed an offensive mind to change that around. Gruden was able to get 48 points in the SuperBowl, when Dungy only got 59 points in all 6 of his playoff games combined.

(10-30-2017, 03:20 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I have been hearing that Washington has been getting frustrated by Gruden. Especially this year. I don't know why they are, but I know a few Redskins fans that are saying that. I don't know how accurate it all is, but that's just the rumor I have been hearing.

Well he is hovering around .500. I'd still take him though, and he now has experience working for 2 dumb owners.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-23-2017, 04:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Fire Marvin and Hire John Gruden. Word is, Gruden has been preparing to return to coaching, so why not here. People say he only won the SB in Tampa because the team was built before he got there. Well, this team is a couple of olinemen from being built. I'd like for them to bring him in...Do I think it will happen, no, but one can hope.

I am actually behind this 100%.  I would like to see this if for no other reason than it would be interesting.  The stands will be virtually empty if they do the internal promotion and I don't really see anything that will get fans to attend games other than a big name like him.  

Last Sunday's game was the quietest I have EVER heard that stadium in the 18 years we have been going to games there.  It was like a morgue.  Good analogy, X, as the players largely looked like corpses. 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-30-2017, 05:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've never understood some of these anti-Gruden arguments.

1. Dungy didn't build that Bucs team. Sam Wyche did. It was Wyche that drafted Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch and Chidi Ahanotu...staples of the defense.

2. Gruden didn't really inherit an improving offense. The Bucs were 26th in total offense in 2001 and scored only 9 points in their playoff game that year. They had no QB (Shaun King wasn't the answer). Gruden landed them a QB (Brad Johnson) and while they didn't improve much in regular season (24th in yards), they averaged 35.3 points on their SuperBowl run.

3. People for some reason forget that Gruden was very successful in Oakland, going to an AFC title game and losing to the Pats the following year thanks to the dumb tuck rule. They were considered SB contenders. He turned Rich Gannon from an unheralded backup into an MVP candidate. 

4. If Gruden doesn't get credit for the championship with "Dungy's team", why does Dungy always get credit for winning one with the Colts? Didn't Dungy inherit Peyton Manning? Do we give Gruden SB credit for the Raiders making it there after he left?
 
___________________

Bottom line is Dungy went 2-4 in the playoffs with that great defense, averaging 9.8 PPG in those games. They clearly needed an offensive mind to change that around. Gruden was able to get 48 points in the SuperBowl, when Dungy only got 59 points in all 6 of his playoff games combined.



Well he is hovering around .500. I'd still take him though, and he now has experience working for 2 dumb owners.

I thought it was widely known that Jon Gruden was a big factor in taking that Bucs team to the SB because of how much he influenced that offense.
Prior to Jon Gruden, that offense was rather stagnant.