Hobson on Mike's reluctance to change

[*ochocincos*]

A risk taker Mike Brown is not.

Mike Brown is sitting here fearing of being the worst team in the league so his basis for current regime is that they are good enough.
Mike takes the approach of "good enough" like he's part of a different industry like software. Like comparing Apple to Google if the Bengals were Apple.
"Mike, why aren't you pushing to make Apple be more innovative and really drive up profits, like Google?"
"Well, you can't really compare us to Google because we do different things. We're still making good revenue and are coming up with some innovative things like the iPhone 8, so I think we're doing just fine. We're not just sitting around doing nothing. At least we aren't as bad as MySpace!"
That may be a fine strategy for a tech company to just be steady, solid, and reliable without having to always try to be the best at everything, but it's different in sports.

This just openly confirms what many of us have assumed for so many years. Mike Brown is afraid of change and being a bottom-tier team again, so he is satisfied with the way his team has been.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-26-2017, 02:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This just openly confirms what many of us have assumed for so many years. Mike Brown is afraid of change and being a bottom-tier team again, so he is satisfied with the way his team has been.

So to extrapolate that out...he must feel that Marvin is the reason for the success. Or a large portion of the success...and that when Marvin goes, the next guy will be worse.

That could very well be the case. Under the current management structure and cheap spending, we may have seen the max possible success this franchise can experience.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-26-2017, 02:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So to extrapolate that out...he must feel that Marvin is the reason for the success. Or a large portion of the success...and that when Marvin goes, the next guy will be worse.

That could very well be the case. Under the current management structure and cheap spending, we may have seen the max possible success this franchise can experience.

And here's why I believe Mike Brown feels this way...under Mike Brown's tenure as owner for the Bengals (August 1991), the Bengals have never had a winning season until Marvin Lewis came. When you've never had something from someone else besides one person, you fear losing that person.

[Derrick]

(10-26-2017, 01:15 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, changing the head coach after 15 years, 7 failed playoff opportunities, 8-23 against your main rival and 8-30 in prime time games ... it isn't exactly a knee jerk reaction. 

It's stats like these that make me want to scream at Mikey Brown, "WTF is wrong with you?"

[THE PISTONS]

(10-26-2017, 02:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And here's why I believe Mike Brown feels this way...under Mike Brown's tenure as owner for the Bengals (August 1991), the Bengals have never had a winning season until Marvin Lewis came. When you've never had something from someone else besides one person, you fear losing that person.

It's a total ego investment. By firing Marvin he will be admitting to doing things wrong for 26+ years.

The best we can hope for is Marvin moving on because Marvin wants to.

That said, I think Guenther will be like Marvin Jr.

[Hoofhearted]

(10-26-2017, 02:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. This sounds like Hobson prepping us for the bad news that's to come. (no change)

2. What a bunch of ____ing malarkey. "It's not the Patriots" - Yeah, no shit Sherlock. It's not the Chiefs, Steelers, Ravens, Packers, Seahawks, Broncos, or any other good franchise, either. Mike is hanging his hat on "we were sorta good recently". There's a huge gap between what we were and the Patriots. Speaking of "were"...

3. Why is he bringing up a string of regular season success that ended 2 years ago? Since starting 8-0 in 2015, the Bengals are 12-17-1. Why don't they acknowledge that instead of defending it? Only the Bengals would be so defiant and smug in the face of utter failure.


Ikr? Hobson sounds like a lot of posters we've had through the years. Take a valid argument and make it sound extreme. You want to be more active in free agency? Look at the Browns and Redskins. Ignoring all the successful teams that use FA, and that no one is asking for $100 million dollar guys. 

You want Marv or Ivory Tickler fired after 15/26 years? Clearly you haven't seen the Browns and Jags fire their coaches every year. Of course, this ignores the fact that (a) many teams turn it around under new coaches (think Rams this year), and (b) Marv is in his 15th year without a playoff win and is 8-13-1 since last year.

This is why I don't look at Bengals.com. Hobson echoes the thoughts of Mike Brown, and listening to Mike Brown makes my head hurt. The man is either a complete moron or he's only about making the Bengals profitable and thinks we're morons.

Rant over.

Yeah, moments like this make me question this as well. I have no idea what so ever why he continually says stuff like this. It really makes me think that he is so damn set in his ways, he just doesn't give a rats a$$ what we think. Here's the plan; no deviating, no altering, no tinkering... If you don't like it, to bad. It makes me even more depressed that this is how it will probably always be ran... If he's stuck with "his plan" this long, I have no hope at all that he will drastically change anything in his approach. 

[Benton]

Quote:"...He thinks he’s close and he thinks any kind of change is a setback. Agree with him or disagree with him, but franchises like Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Miami and others that keep changing coaches and quarterbacks like socks and cell phones reinforce his fears."

That excuse drives me crazy.

I don't like change, either. And I laugh at the Browns and Jags for their long history of torching everything they build every couple years (or in Cleveland's case, every year), regardless of what's working or not working. You don't build a championship team in one season.

On the flipside, you don't keep slamming your foot in the door and expect to get through to the other side.

For me, four years is the benchmark. If you feel like you're moving in the right direciton — players are developing, draft picks are developing, everybody in the locker room gets the scheme, you're picking up more mile markers — then give it another season or maybe tweak it some and reevaluate. If after four years you aren't getting the results you want... like no playoff wins and a laughably bad primetime game ratio .... then you've got to figure out what's not working. Head coach? Scouting? Positions? If you can't fix it in a fifth season, then you're guess was wrong and you need more drastic measures (like pulling a Browns and rebuild from a new HC down).

[Sled21]

(10-26-2017, 02:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And here's why I believe Mike Brown feels this way...under Mike Brown's tenure as owner for the Bengals (August 1991), the Bengals have never had a winning season until Marvin Lewis came. When you've never had something from someone else besides one person, you fear losing that person.

Yeah, but Mike was there with Paul for two trips to the Super Bowl, so he ought to realize he's not getting the best....

[Bengal Dude]

I tried reading through this Hobson's Choice, but it was too painful. It was so much fluffing of this team. No one is asking for this team to change coaches every two years. Seriously, if you see nothing after 3-4 years, then you need to change something. Marvin is here for his 15th freaking season and is STILL looking for his first playoff win.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-26-2017, 03:05 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, moments like this make me question this as well. I have no idea what so ever why he continually says stuff like this. It really makes me think that he is so damn set in his ways, he just doesn't give a rats a$$ what we think. Here's the plan; no deviating, no altering, no tinkering... If you don't like it, to bad. It makes me even more depressed that this is how it will probably always be ran... If he's stuck with "his plan" this long, I have no hope at all that he will drastically change anything in his approach. 

Mike Brown's business is the Cincinnati Bengals franchise. That's it. He's not like (nearly?) every other owner who has 1+ other companies and took on a NFL franchise as more of a profitable hobby. Maybe if Mike Brown has another good source of income outside of football he'd treat it more like a hobby and therefore be more passionate about winning it all?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-26-2017, 04:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mike Brown's business is the Cincinnati Bengals franchise. That's it. He's not like (nearly?) every other owner who has 1+ other companies and took on a NFL franchise as more of a profitable hobby. Maybe if Mike Brown has another good source of income outside of football he'd treat it more like a hobby and therefore be more passionate about winning it all?

I don't think it has to do with passion. I think Brown truly thinks the way he's done things is the best way to win a championship. I don't think he realizes that the thing that's ultimately holding us back is the way he does things, the way he runs this team. I also don't think he will ever realize this. Our only hope is that whomever takes over for him (Katie presumably) can recognize this and will bring the Bengals into the current NFL.

[*Go Cards*]

(10-26-2017, 12:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That has always been my problem with this line of thinking. 

He's looking at the worst examples and making that the basis for comparison - saying 'at least we're not them, but if we change things up, we could be'. 

Why not reverse the logic and use the best teams as the measuring stick - 'we want to be like them, and if we make some real changes, maybe we can be'. 

The thought process is frustrating to say the least. 

Exactly and believe we have been close during the Dalton/Green era as well.

But he will not pull the trigger on the moves to get us over the hump like other teams have done.

So frustrating but have way too many years invested in this team to walk away now. 

Still think it all boils down to not investing in the interior OL more. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-26-2017, 02:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is why I don't look at Bengals.com. Hobson echoes the thoughts of Mike Brown, and listening to Mike Brown makes my head hurt. The man is either a complete moron or he's only about making the Bengals profitable and thinks we're morons.

Oh I think he knows marketing. They let the best 2 offensive lineman from a bad team leave and then drafted a speedy WR and RB. They excessively tout draft picks. They know that the average fan things that all draft picks are going to be great starters. Reality is maybe 1 or 2 guys will pain out.

Same with comp picks. Most of our comp picks are horrible...but fans get excited about 'extra draft picks'.

I honestly don't think they know any better as they've been with the Bengals so long.

[J24]

They have gotten worse between 2015 and now. This team was a championship caliber team but mismanagement particularly from not resigning our one FA has killed us. That's what bothers me the most is they say they re sign their own guys but they really don't.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-26-2017, 02:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's a total ego investment. By firing Marvin he will be admitting to doing things wrong for 26+ years.

The best we can hope for is Marvin moving on because Marvin wants to.

That said, I think Guenther will be like Marvin Jr.

I think this is a major factor ! Like others have said MB really truly believes he's doing things right and he's not gonna admit he was wrong come hell or high water.

And to fire Marvin, P. Alexander etc. he would basically be admitting he was wrong. Ain't gonna happen, not now.

Yes he is that stubborn ! He's rather go on being mediocre and stay in his little safe place.

[Bengalholic]

It's quite interesting - and pretty depressing - to compare Hobson's thoughts on Mike in the OP, with quotes from Mike (and a couple from Katie) in a Hobson article from 1997 about Mike not giving up control:

''I'm unhappy we haven't won. The fans are unhappy we haven't won. We understand that,'' Brown said. ''But I don't agree with the media suggestions for correcting it . . . We feel we've got people here who have the knowledge.''

''I'm used to it. I've been criticized for 30 years,'' Brown said.

''Everybody loves the GM who is hot. A few years ago it was Bobby Beathard when San Diego went to the Super Bowl,'' said Katie Blackburn, Brown's daughter who handles the Bengals' salary cap as the club's top negotiator.

''Now where are the Chargers? I think he should stick with it. We've had some good years around here. I think my Dad knows as much football as anyone out there.''

''If you have the bell cow quarterback, it works,'' said Brown, who saw it work with Otto Graham in the '50s, Ken Anderson in the '70s and Esiason in the '80s.

''You have to have the key guy. If you don't have the key guy, it doesn't matter . . . The system, changed (to free agency), but one thing that didn't change was you still had to line up with a key player or two. Look at San Francisco (Steve Young), Dallas (Aikman), Miami (Marino), Denver (John Elway). They were good before and after the system. I'm not disparaging other players because you need as many good ones as you can get. But the quarterback is the key guy. Look at Buffalo this year.''

''When people talk about scouting, it's a red herring for people who don't know what they're talking about,'' Brown said. ''We have all the information everybody else has. There are no secrets. When the Broncos got (running back) Terrell Davis in the sixth round, it wasn't like he wasn't on our board. We talked about him. If they were so sure fire smart, why didn't they take him in the first round? We have the same record as the Rams and they have (eight) scouts.''

''Some of what we do is required by our financial situation,'' Brown said. ''I don't apologize for it.''

Two decades later, It doesn't seem much at all has changed in terms of Mike's thinking. 

[StoneTheCrow]

How is it even possible to love a team that is run by people you entirely loathe? I seriously hate these people worse than I hate the Steelers. I wish I could quit ‘em.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-26-2017, 08:47 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's quite interesting - and pretty depressing - to compare Hobson's thoughts on Mike in the OP, with quotes from Mike (and a couple from Katie) in a Hobson article from 1997 about Mike not giving up control:

''I'm unhappy we haven't won. The fans are unhappy we haven't won. We understand that,'' Brown said. ''But I don't agree with the media suggestions for correcting it . . . We feel we've got people here who have the knowledge.''

''I'm used to it. I've been criticized for 30 years,'' Brown said.

''Everybody loves the GM who is hot. A few years ago it was Bobby Beathard when San Diego went to the Super Bowl,'' said Katie Blackburn, Brown's daughter who handles the Bengals' salary cap as the club's top negotiator.

''Now where are the Chargers? I think he should stick with it. We've had some good years around here. I think my Dad knows as much football as anyone out there.''

''If you have the bell cow quarterback, it works,'' said Brown, who saw it work with Otto Graham in the '50s, Ken Anderson in the '70s and Esiason in the '80s.

''You have to have the key guy. If you don't have the key guy, it doesn't matter . . . The system, changed (to free agency), but one thing that didn't change was you still had to line up with a key player or two. Look at San Francisco (Steve Young), Dallas (Aikman), Miami (Marino), Denver (John Elway). They were good before and after the system. I'm not disparaging other players because you need as many good ones as you can get. But the quarterback is the key guy. Look at Buffalo this year.''

''When people talk about scouting, it's a red herring for people who don't know what they're talking about,'' Brown said. ''We have all the information everybody else has. There are no secrets. When the Broncos got (running back) Terrell Davis in the sixth round, it wasn't like he wasn't on our board. We talked about him. If they were so sure fire smart, why didn't they take him in the first round? We have the same record as the Rams and they have (eight) scouts.''

''Some of what we do is required by our financial situation,'' Brown said. ''I don't apologize for it.''

Two decades later, I doesn't seem much at all has changed in terms of Mike's thinking. 

Wow! Just wow! After how bad we were in the 90's if he didn't make changes...he never will now.

It's funny that he says all teams have access to the same information. He seems to dispel actual scouting and think that teams just use Kipers guide. Then he totally throws shade on the Broncos selecting Terrell Davis.

Then the talk about the financial situation. In the days of revenue sharing there really is no excuse.

Then the classic example - he looks at the worst of the worst...the Rams at the time and talks about how they have 8 scouts but still lose. The funny thing is 3-4  years later they'd be in the Super Bowl.

This interview is the definition of an ego investment. His way is the right way. He's sure of it. He's not going to change.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-26-2017, 09:18 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: How is it even possible to love a team that is run by people you entirely loathe? I seriously hate these people worse than I hate the Steelers. I wish I could quit ‘em.

Say what you want about the Steelers, but they invest EVERYTHING into winning. And IF Tomlin didn't make the playoffs for 3 years in a row or underperformed...they'd fire him.

Same with players...they cut underperforming guys.

IF the Bengals had their management and success...we'd love them. Heck making the playoffs on here and losing has fans in a frenzy.

[*Go Cards*]

(10-26-2017, 09:18 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: How is it even possible to love a team that is run by people you entirely loathe? I seriously hate these people worse than I hate the Steelers. I wish I could quit ‘em.

Amen 

But am addicted at this point. Am a glutton for punishment it seems.