Hobson on Mike's reluctance to change

[THE PISTONS]

(10-26-2017, 04:59 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: They have gotten worse between 2015 and now.  This team was a championship caliber team but mismanagement particularly from not resigning our one FA has killed us. That's what bothers me the most is they say they re sign their own guys but they really don't.

Yep. That was my contention all along.

We lost A LOT of quality NFL players over the past 2 seasons and haven't replaced most of them through the draft. Yeah Mixon and Lawson look good, but we lost 8-9 good players.

Nelson, Hall, Whitworth, Zeitler, Maualuga (not quality), Dansby, Sanu, Jones, Andre Smith the 1st time, Peko, Burkhead, Lamur, Hawk, Tate.

Jackson replaces Hall quite well, but really most of those guys haven't been replaced adequately. Jones speed is missed. Whitworth and Zeitler are painfully missed.

When you lose a bunch of quality players and only bring in bargain bin free agents and rely on the draft heavily...you get worse.

Even look at moves like signing Lafell. They could have had a younger, faster guy in Travis Benjamin for similar money but it would cost a compensatory pick most likely.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-26-2017, 11:03 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Amen 

But am addicted at this point. Glutton for punishment I recon. 

Yeah I can't switch. I live an hour from Pittsburgh so that's an easy move...but I just can't do it.

Probably either Carolina or Jacksonville would be other candidates but how do you just switch?

The Bengals are the least satisfying sports team to follow for me though. All of my other teams spend money and try to win and make moves.

The Pistons made an Eastern Conference Finals and lost and fired the coach and won a championship the next year, then made the finals the next year and lost and fired the coach.

[Bengalholic]

In another Hobson article, from 2016, Mike talks about why he sticks with Marvin:

Lewis may have been fired from many NFL teams given the messy ending and a 0-7 post-season record. But Brown is famous for being the most patient owner in any pro sport. Yet on Tuesday he offered an excellent defense of his guy. A fundamental, pragmatic view of another century.

“If coaches were hired and fired on that account, the NFL would have a turnover rate about three times what is has now,” Brown said. “Yes, we want to win a playoff game, we want to win the Super Bowl. So do a lot of other teams, most of which have not gotten as far as we've gotten.

 “It was a process for the two of us. It was his first time as a head coach and probably he was a little leery of different moments when it was not easy. And we worked through all of those and we became very comfortable. I'm quite respectful of Marvin. I think he's a good person. He's done a good job for us. I appreciate his loyalty. I feel lucky to have him, and I think the city should feel that way too.”

This is why I think Marvin gets re-signed, yet again - assuming he wants to come back. Mike is very comfortable with Marvin, and Marvin has been loyal to the Brown family. If Mike didn't think 7 playoff losses was a reason to fire him, I doubt the last couple of seasons will be much of a determining factor. 

[GodFather]

(10-26-2017, 11:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah I can't switch.

I can't either. The problem is I just don't give a shit about any other teams. If they win or lose I could careless. Funny how you get emotionally invested in your team. I don't lose sleep over the Bengals by any means but the problem with ALL of us is we should tell the Bengal organization to F$ck off and follow a team that works on winning a Super Bowl and does what it takes, but it just doesn't work that way in practice.

[muskiesfan]

It's funny to me how Brown can be so reluctant to change, but has zero problem threatening to move the team to another city. That would be quite the change.

[GodFather]

(10-26-2017, 11:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: In another Hobson article, from 2016, Mike talks about why he sticks with Marvin:

Lewis may have been fired from many NFL teams given the messy ending and a 0-7 post-season record. But Brown is famous for being the most patient owner in any pro sport. Yet on Tuesday he offered an excellent defense of his guy. A fundamental, pragmatic view of another century.

“If coaches were hired and fired on that account, the NFL would have a turnover rate about three times what is has now,” Brown said. “Yes, we want to win a playoff game, we want to win the Super Bowl. So do a lot of other teams, most of which have not gotten as far as we've gotten.

 “It was a process for the two of us. It was his first time as a head coach and probably he was a little leery of different moments when it was not easy. And we worked through all of those and we became very comfortable. I'm quite respectful of Marvin. I think he's a good person. He's done a good job for us. I appreciate his loyalty. I feel lucky to have him, and I think the city should feel that way too.”

This is why I think Marvin gets re-signed, yet again - assuming he wants to come back. Mike is very comfortable with Marvin, and Marvin has been loyal to the Brown family. If Mike didn't think 7 playoff losses was a reason to fire him, I doubt the last couple of seasons will be much of a determining factor. 

 
I also think he's failing to make another important point. Mike Brown doesn't want to put the work in himself making major changes. Its a lot of work on the front office part to reorganize and I think that is another major issue with income still rolling in. They would make changes in a heartbeat if they were losing money. But this is the "Money Train NFL"  


So I fully expect to see Lewis next year unless he decides its time to leave. And we can have this same conversation again next year like we have for the past decade.

[Brownshoe]

(10-27-2017, 09:55 AM)GodFather Wrote:  
I also think he's failing to make another important point. Mike Brown doesn't want to put the work in himself making major changes. Its a lot of work on the front office part to reorganize and I think that is another major issue with income still rolling in. They would make changes in a heartbeat if they were losing money. But this is the "Money Train NFL"  


So I fully expect to see Lewis next year unless he decides its time to leave. And we can have this same conversation again next year like we have for the past decade.

If we don't win a playoff game this year, and Marvin Lewis is here next year I don't think I will even care for the season. I have been wanting Lewis gone since 09. If he has two back to back years with a bad record I don't see how Brown makes him the HC again. I normally say something along the lines of "Marvin Lewis will always be a part of the team. His burial plot is on the 50 yard line at PBS", but I just don't see him as the HC next year, especially the way he's acting with the media right  now.

[muskiesfan]

(10-27-2017, 10:01 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If we don't win a playoff game this year, and Marvin Lewis is here next year I don't think I will even care for the season. I have been wanting Lewis gone since 09. If he has two back to back years with a bad record I don't see how Brown makes him the HC again. I normally say something along the lines of "Marvin Lewis will always be a part of the team. His burial plot is on the 50 yard line at PBS", but I just don't see him as the HC next year, especially the way he's acting with the media right  now.

While I wish this were true, look at Alexander the Great. We're always a poor run blocking team and now our pass protection is also shit, but guess who's never on the hot seat.

[GodFather]

(10-27-2017, 10:01 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If we don't win a playoff game this year, and Marvin Lewis is here next year I don't think I will even care for the season. I have been wanting Lewis gone since 09. If he has two back to back years with a bad record I don't see how Brown makes him the HC again. I normally say something along the lines of "Marvin Lewis will always be a part of the team. His burial plot is on the 50 yard line at PBS", but I just don't see him as the HC next year, especially the way he's acting with the media right  now.

But your thinking logically. Mike Brown doesn't think that way. He thinks of the double C's....comfort and cash!

[upstateBengal]

The moment I changed my thinking on Mike Brown in the past was the whole Carson Palmer situation. At the time, I was impressed that MB had stuck to his guns, and in the end Palmer sorta left on our terms with getting those draft picks as compensation. In retrospect, this has likely just made MB more stubborn and convinced that his way is the right way, and it will work out in the end. Sadly, like many others, ill just have to set my expectations at a very low bar with this team, and be mildly pleased with any success on a week to week basis. Its like if your sibling had a drug problem, you still love them and hope for the best, but really you don't expect much to change in the long run.

[bengals67]

This is my 50th year as a Bengals fan

If Lewis and Bodine are back next year I will be done following the Bengals.

I hope that season ticket holders cancel their tickets next year in droves if Marvin returns.

Like I have said, Bengals are doomed record wise. They will never win a playoff game much less get back to the Super Bowl with current management .

 fan base will deteriorate, then Mike will blame fans when he moves the team when stadium lease expires.

Shameful disregard of the City of Cincinnati, Hamilton County, and all of the thousands of fans who have supported the Bengals for 50 years.

[sandwedge]

My fear is that this team is really young, a lot of players with less than 3 years of playing time. MB will retain Marvin and try to spin it that is the reason he extended him.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-26-2017, 11:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah I can't switch. I live an hour from Pittsburgh so that's an easy move...but I just can't do it.

Probably either Carolina or Jacksonville would be other candidates but how do you just switch?

I know what you mean, but if Merv comes back next season, I'm damn sure gonna try.

[Whatever]

(10-27-2017, 11:45 AM)sandwedge Wrote: My fear is that this team is really young, a lot of players with less than 3 years of playing time. MB will retain Marvin and try to spin it that is the reason he extended him.

I think Brown is at the end of his rope with Marvin.  He publicly threw Lewis under the bus in the media with his "talent is not the problem" comments, and replacing Zampese that early was also very unlike him.  

[THE PISTONS]

(10-27-2017, 01:34 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think Brown is at the end of his rope with Marvin.  He publicly threw Lewis under the bus in the media with his "talent is not the problem" comments, and replacing Zampese that early was also very unlike him.  

Yeah...most teams change coaches sometimes 1, 2, 3 years if a coach doesn't win. You get 15 years here. 

[Derrick]

(10-26-2017, 11:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: In another Hobson article, from 2016, Mike talks about why he sticks with Marvin:

Lewis may have been fired from many NFL teams given the messy ending and a 0-7 post-season record. But Brown is famous for being the most patient owner in any pro sport. Yet on Tuesday he offered an excellent defense of his guy. A fundamental, pragmatic view of another century.

“If coaches were hired and fired on that account, the NFL would have a turnover rate about three times what is has now,” Brown said. “Yes, we want to win a playoff game, we want to win the Super Bowl. So do a lot of other teams, most of which have not gotten as far as we've gotten.

 “It was a process for the two of us. It was his first time as a head coach and probably he was a little leery of different moments when it was not easy. And we worked through all of those and we became very comfortable. I'm quite respectful of Marvin. I think he's a good person. He's done a good job for us. I appreciate his loyalty. I feel lucky to have him, and I think the city should feel that way too.”

This is why I think Marvin gets re-signed, yet again - assuming he wants to come back. Mike is very comfortable with Marvin, and Marvin has been loyal to the Brown family. If Mike didn't think 7 playoff losses was a reason to fire him, I doubt the last couple of seasons will be much of a determining factor. 

And the beat goes on...

[*ochocincos*]

(10-27-2017, 01:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...most teams change coaches sometimes 1, 2, 3 years if a coach doesn't win. You get 15 years here. 

To be fair, Marvin helped get the Bengals to the postseason for the first time since Mike Brown took over ownership.
Marvin had two playoff berths in his first eight years (2005, 2009). 2006-2008 were very close to making the playoffs each year. Those years were still worth watching all the way through because the Bengals were still in the hunt in mid-late December.
Then Marvin got the luxury of sticking around for the "reboot". Bye Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson, hello Andy Dalton and AJ Green.
This miraculously resulted in five straight playoff berths.
So in terms of progression over a span of years, Marvin did accomplish that to an extent. It's just not what the fans consider enough progression.
Now, Marvin has had one losing season after five straight playoff berths and likely on his way to a second losing season, to which he only ever did one other time (2007-2008).
Marvin's tenure was a welcome change from the 90's through 2002, but now his team's declining again and it's time for a changing of the guard.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-27-2017, 02:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: To be fair, Marvin helped get the Bengals to the postseason for the first time since Mike Brown took over ownership.
Marvin had two playoff berths in his first eight years (2005, 2009).
Then Marvin got the luxury of sticking around for the "reboot". Bye Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson, hello Andy Dalton and AJ Green.
This miraculously resulted in five straight playoff berths.
So in terms of progression over a span of years, Marvin did accomplish that to an extent. It's just not what the fans consider enough progression.
Now, Marvin has had one losing season after five straight playoff berths and likely on his way to a second losing season, to which he only ever did one other time (2007-2008).
Marvin's tenure was a welcome change from the 90's through 2002, but now his team's declining again and it's time for a changing of the guard.

Oh...the things Marvin has accomplished working under Mike Brown have been amazing. I still think Marvin wins a Super Bowl if he's coaching the Steelers by now.

[Whatever]

(10-27-2017, 02:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Oh...the things Marvin has accomplished working under Mike Brown have been amazing. I still think Marvin wins a Super Bowl if he's coaching the Steelers by now.

Marvin is a decent HC, but's let's be realistic here.  The abysmal clock management, lack of halftime adjustments, poor player discipline, and talented teams shxtting the bed in big games is 100% on him. That's the big part of the frustration with Marvin.  He's had the talent to do more, but just can't get over the hump.    He's certainly not the kind of coach that can elevate his team above their talent level.

[TheUberHuber]

(10-26-2017, 12:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: ie...I'm scared to change because we'll go back to the 90's and we're better than the worst teams in the league.

How a team can be 0-7 in the playoffs and routinely lose primetime games to good teams and think they are on 'the brink of a championship' is beyond me.

this assumes mb cares about winning a super bowl. The reality is mb only cares about filling the stadium and being 'good enough' to do it. You could write a million word post of examples to prove this. It's quite honestly not even a secret. 



We will never have a team with a good player at every position. We will ALWAYS have holes in key spots and millions left in cap space. Good teams who actually compete for super bowls easily take advantage of these weaknesses. The only way we win a super bowl is if we get extremely lucky in the draft and who we end up playing in the playoffs...