Which promoted Bengals coach do you give a chance?

[Deanlj69]

I honestly would only consider Simmons. I also wouldn’t be against every assistant being let go if the new HC is an outside hire. I think Paulie is extremely overrated and before anyone throws me any stats remember he inherited this defense and didn’t build it. A good D won’t break down overnight due to a coordinator change if the core pieces remain

[*Go Cards*]

Not sure I want any, but would go with Paulie G per Zimmer having such a high opinion of him and him doing fine since.

He most likely has the inside track as well because MB must be close to him to be able to have a deal in place behind Zimmers back to retain him immediately when MZ thought he would be his DC.

Really want fresh blood though.

It really stinks letting Zimmer get away though.

Believe Zimmer, Gruden, and Joseph were are best choices obviously.

But we watched them sail off into the sunset why giggles giggled.

Our window was wide open then with players and coaches.

Then we got Mike Browned.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-27-2017, 09:08 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: I honestly would only consider Simmons. I also wouldn’t be against every assistant being let go if the new HC is an outside hire. I think Paulie is extremely overrated and before anyone throws me any stats remember he inherited this defense and didn’t build it. A good D won’t break down overnight due to a coordinator change if the core pieces remain

So you're basically saying it's all about the players and scheme doesn't matter? That's asinine.

Anyone who has been a fan for at least 10 years has seen the difference a coordinator makes. Multiple times.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-28-2017, 01:21 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you're basically saying it's all about the players and scheme doesn't matter? That's asinine.

Anyone who has been a fan for at least 10 years has seen the difference a coordinator makes. Multiple times.

While I agree with what you are saying and I think coordinators do make a huge difference... I will point out that it seems when the Bengals D is being good, it looks exactly like what Zimmer ran. When it looks like crap, it's because Guenther is doing his own "unique" things like dropping Dunlap into coverage, or playing man coverage with both safeties in the box, or having his CBs play 10 yards off and dropping into a enormously porous zone.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-28-2017, 01:30 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: While I agree with what you are saying and I think coordinators do make a huge difference... I will point out that it seems when the Bengals D is being good, it looks exactly like what Zimmer ran. When it looks like crap, it's because Guenther is doing his own "unique" things like dropping Dunlap into coverage, or playing man coverage with both safeties in the box, or having his CBs play 10 yards off and dropping into a enormously porous zone.

Zimmer hasn't been in Cincy since 2013. This is PG's 4th year as DC and those guys switch things up and throw new wrinkles every year. While I'm sure there's *some* similarities to Zimmer's D, I think it's time to stop giving Zim credit for every bit of good while saying all bad is "the real PG".

That kinda reminds me of old Dalton arguments, where haters would credit any great performance to "weapons", while all bad was just "Andy being Andy". It's just having your cake and wanting to eat it too (which is saying I've never understood - who doesn't want to eat their cake).

[RASCAL]

with the way the Bungles are playing right now, I wouldn't promote a damn one of these idiots! elmer fudd won't pay for a good coach because he will NOT give up the control needed to make this team a perennial winner! so we are stuck with these baffoons!

you asked Phil!

[ah5]

(10-27-2017, 02:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: People complain about Lewis's coaching tree, but there sits Zimmer up in Minny with 5 wins using a 3rd string QB. I'd give Paulie a chance, and I'd give Simmons a chance. Lazor as well, though I admit I am not as familiar with him.....

same.. I think both Simmons and Paulie actually deserve a chance.  That being said I still want Gruden or Zimmer as my #1 option.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-28-2017, 01:41 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Zimmer hasn't been in Cincy since 2013. This is PG's 4th year as DC and those guys switch things up and throw new wrinkles every year. While I'm sure there's *some* similarities to Zimmer's D, I think it's time to stop giving Zim credit for every bit of good while saying all bad is "the real PG".

That kinda reminds me of old Dalton arguments, where haters would credit any great performance to "weapons", while all bad was just "Andy being Andy". It's just having your cake and wanting to eat it too (which is saying I've never understood - who doesn't want to eat their cake).

That's because everyone says it wrong. 

It's "you can't eat your cake and have it too". 

[Devils Advocate]

I didn’t really read much of the thread. However at this point, I think you’ve got to give Paulie G a shot as HC. he’s really done a great job when you get down to brass tacks. Considering we’ve allowed some pretty decent coaches to leave, perhaps even one or two (or more) that may go on to win a championship, I don’t see how you let Paulie go.

[Deanlj69]

(10-28-2017, 01:21 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you're basically saying it's all about the players and scheme doesn't matter? That's asinine.

Anyone who has been a fan for at least 10 years has seen the difference a coordinator makes. Multiple times.

Shake I like you but you do speak down to people as if you are an authority. I never said anything in reference to how you responded. Tell me what significant changes Paulie has implemented? Don’t try and pretend he has overhauled a great D that was implemented by Zimmer. That would be asinine taking a perennial top 10 D and overhauling it completely. That didn’t happen. If you think Paulie has elevated the D then keep drinking that kool aid. He also had the luxury of getting a good D that still had players reaching their prime! I didn’t say nor imply he did a bad job he has actually done well. I just don’t see him as head coach material. Damn dude don’t always overreact if you don’t like what you are hearing

[Madieu Superstar]

(10-28-2017, 11:18 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I didn’t really read much of the thread. However at this point, I think you’ve got to give Paulie G a shot as HC. he’s really done a great job when you get down to brass tacks. Considering we’ve allowed some pretty decent coaches to leave, perhaps even one or two (or more) that may go on to win a championship, I don’t see how you let Paulie go.

This is just insane.
Why would we want ANYONE associated with Marvin, outside of maybe Zimmer who has already proven to be a decent head coach?
Guenther took Zimmer's defense and has sorta maintained it. Having said that, since Zimmer left, Burfict and Pacman have gone back off the rails. Why should I think he'll be able to maintain control over a whole team. 

I would tell Marvin to take his son, and all of his assistant coaches for life, and get the heck out of town. It's long past due. 

[phil413]

I don't agree with disqualifying Guenther because you feel we're due for an offensive mind. Id rather have the better candidate. Paul shouldn't pay for Marvin''s sins and he's qualified to get a job so don't think he will stay as DC if they picked another guy.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-28-2017, 10:18 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: Shake I like you but you do speak down to people as if you are an authority. I never said anything in reference to how you responded. Tell me what significant changes Paulie has implemented? Don’t try and pretend he has overhauled a great D that was implemented by Zimmer. That would be asinine taking a perennial top 10 D and overhauling it completely. That didn’t happen. If you think Paulie has elevated the D then keep drinking that kool aid. He also had the luxury of getting a good D that still had players reaching their prime!  I didn’t say nor imply he did a bad job he has actually done well. I just don’t see him as head coach material. Damn dude don’t always overreact if you don’t like what you are hearing

I'm sorry you feel that way. I just call it how I see it, and crediting Zimmer for PG's success in 2017 seems silly to me. Zimmer last coached here in 2013. At this rate, we'll be crediting Zimmer for the success of PG's successor. You see what I'm saying? At what point do we stop giving PG's credit to Zimmer? I understood in 2014. In 2017 it just makes you sound like a guy who just doesn't like PG.

The scheme certainly has similarities, but Zim didn't invent the scheme. PG has his own playbook within that scheme and he's the one getting these guys ready and game planning every week. I think it's time to give the guy his due.

And yeah, he's got good players. I'm not sure why we're holding that against him. Any successful coordinator (including the mighty Zim) is going to have good players.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-29-2017, 01:02 AM)phil413 Wrote: I don't agree with disqualifying Guenther because you feel we're due for an offensive mind.  Id rather have the better candidate. Paul shouldn't pay for Marvin''s sins and he's qualified to get a job so don't think he will stay as DC if they picked another guy.

I totally get and respect that take, but I think a lot of people just want as far from Marvin as we can get. That would mean an offensive mind from outside the organization. If we're just looking at the quality of the candidates, there are dozens of more qualified candidates with better resumes than Paul Guenther.

If Guenther gets upset and leaves (I don't think he would but it's possible), so what? We'd be losing him as DC if we hired him as HC anyway. I genuinely hope that this team goes outside if they do fire Marv. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll fire Marv and I do think Guenther is the guy they'll hire if it happens. I'm just tired of lazy internal hires. Like I said, there's so many better candidates out there.

[phil413]

(10-29-2017, 02:00 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I totally get and respect that take, but I think a lot of people just want as far from Marvin as we can get. That would mean an offensive mind from outside the organization. If we're just looking at the quality of the candidates, there are dozens of more qualified candidates with better resumes than Paul Guenther.

If Guenther gets upset and leaves (I don't think he would but it's possible), so what? We'd be losing him as DC if we hired him as HC anyway. I genuinely hope that this team goes outside if they do fire Marv. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll fire Marv and I do think Guenther is the guy they'll hire if it happens. I'm just tired of lazy internal hires. Like I said, there's so many better candidates out there.

I agree that going outside may be better than Guenther but the topic is between current Bengal coaches.  I just found it crazy Lazor was brought up.  Simmons maybe but Guenther is the best if my only choice is a current staff member.

[Devils Advocate]

(10-28-2017, 10:34 PM)Madieu Superstar Wrote: This is just insane.
Why would we want ANYONE associated with Marvin, outside of maybe Zimmer who has already proven to be a decent head coach?
Guenther took Zimmer's defense and has sorta maintained it. Having said that, since Zimmer left, Burfict and Pacman have gone back off the rails. Why should I think he'll be able to maintain control over a whole team. 

I would tell Marvin to take his son, and all of his assistant coaches for life, and get the heck out of town. It's long past due. 

Jay Gruden, Vance Joseph, Mike Zimmer & even Hugh are all associated with Marvin. Outside of Hugh, each of those coaches are potential championship winners.

Paul Gunther is running his own defense & he’s done a fantastic job really.

[Deanlj69]

I guess most of you think Tim Cook is at least as effective as Steve Jobs, I mean the stock price is steady hell its even went up! Then he must be better! Sure the innovations were all done by Jobs but that has little to do with the company today.

[Madieu Superstar]

(10-29-2017, 10:25 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Jay Gruden, Vance Joseph, Mike Zimmer & even Hugh are all associated with Marvin. Outside of Hugh, each of those coaches are potential championship winners.

Paul Gunther is running his own defense & he’s done a fantastic job really.

No he hasn't.
He took Zimmer's defense and hasn't made it any better. In fact, this team has gone 17 straight games without recovering a fumble on defense. That's comical. I also watched his defense fail to show up in the first half of a big game last week. Perhaps if the Bengals were up 14-0 or 14-3, things may have gone different. In that sense, it has been a continuation of Zimmer. His defenses had a tendency to get pushed around in playoff games. He's also failed to maintain any semblance of control over Burfict and Pacman. I could be wrong, but I don't think those penalties happen at the end of the playoff game if Zimmer was there. Those two were under control with the Bengals until 2014 when he left. 

Guenther deserves zero shot to be the head coach. In fact, for all of the people concerned about going back to the 90's with a coaching change, hiring a less qualified individual from within increases the odds of something like that happening (i.e Shula, Coslet, Lebeau). 

[grampahol]

The recruitment poster will read: Needed: Coach just good enough to keep warm butts in seats, but not good enough to actually win anything of any real significance. Attention to details of how to almost win a must. 

[masonbengals fan]

If (Is there really any question ?) they stay in house it would be Guenther. He's earned it. Although I would like to see a offensive minded guy as the HC. Paulie typically has his side ready to go. He would get my vote.