Bengals Awful O Line and Mike Brown and Whitworth

[kevin]

Parts of article by James Marcum 3-14-2017. ANDREW WHITWORTH OPENS UP ABOUT LEAVING BENGALS, WHY HE CHOOSE RAMS. The Bengals let Whitworth leave with very little resistance. ....It starts by saying The Bengals tend to be cheap in free agency, even when it comes to their own players. Unfortunately this proved to be true with Whitworth, one of the best offensive linemen to ever wear a Bengals uniform. The Bengals were willing to offer him a 10 million contract but only a one year deal. To Bengals Fans that may sound a lot, but it wasn't close to what the Rams and other NFL teams were offering Whitworth. Whitworth liked that the Rams offered him a 3 year deal , not a one year deal, at 11 million. Whitworth said it felt good to be wanted by a team, and once he saw that a team wanted him, he looked forward to a fresh start away from the Cincinnati Bengals situation. He liked that the Rams don't even play Cincinnati until 2019.

Marcum writes that it's a terrible thing to lose a great player to another team. Whitworth had done enough for this franchise to warrent more than a one year contract, not to mention how much the Bengals still needed him on the offensive line. It's great to see Whitworth getting the fresh start and the 3 year contract he deserves. It's sad the Bengals didn't really try to keep him and didn't offer more than a one year contract. Looking at Bengals history it's not surprising considering how CHEAP this franchise operates.

This article can be Googled or found on internet...Here's another on internet. Eric Winston cut by the Bengals after preseason could still be added back. He knows the Bengals system, has been a Bengals O Lineman for years, often as a starter, and was in training camp and preseason. The Bengals O Line as bad as it is, you would think they could use the veteran depth Winston could provide. Here again a lack of respect by Bengals ownership for their own veteran players. I will add that Eric Winston is an NFL Players Union Rep and has been talking that when the NFL contract is up, that the NFL lockout in 2021 is probably going to be far worse than the 2011 Lockout Strike between Owners and Players Union. Now I have seen Mike Brown get rid of Players Union Reps on his team before and it might be the very reason the veteran Winston isn't on this team for depth even though the Bengals have no blocking.

So Bengals didn't try to sign Zietler to what other teams offered. Bengals could have kept Whitworth but refused to offer him more than a one year contract, which made Whitworth feel like Bengals Owners didn't want him. That other teams like the Rams did want him made Whitworth want out of Cincinnati and a fresh start. Then we add losing a third veteran in Eric Winston who Bengals just cut and could get back in here for much needed experience and blocking, but I'm guessing Mike Brown is once again trying to get rid of a Union Players Rep that Winston is. That's the only reason I can see considering our needs at O Line and Winston was better than what we now have.

I post this due to our awful O line that we could have kept Whitworth but the Bengals went real cheap on one of best Bengals ever. Don't look for Whit to be part of Bengs 50 year History because he is trying to stay as far from Cincy as possible...I also mention Eric Winston is another veteran we could resign right now, with a message to Bengals ownership : Your O Line STINKS and your draft picks aren't working. Your O Line experiment blew up in your face. Might at least want to resign Winston who is better than most of the awful O Line Depth on this team. The Bengals might even want to try to trade some of this glut of WR's and RB's or McCarron for a much needed blocker, but as Mike Brown always says, " Why should I pay a blocker ? " His dad Paul Brown of the great 1980's O Line and winning at Ohio State and Cleveland Browns knew that when the ball is snapped, if you don't have blocking, all the X's and O's of the playbook fail to happen if you don't have blocking when the center snaps the ball. Mike Brown never has and never will learn that.

[*bengalfan74*]

I'll always believe the Bengals tried to play hardball with Whit and it blew up in their face. I forget the exact comment ? by Marvin maybe ? either right before or in very early free agency, something a out Whit being dinged up perhaps ? They didn't think anybody would want him and they could have their way.

Sad ! to do a damn near Bengal Legend that way but that's how MB rolls, $$$$$$$$ is first priority.

[kevin]

(10-27-2017, 09:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'll always believe the Bengals tried to play hardball with Whit and it blew up in their face.  I forget the exact comment ? by Marvin maybe ? either right before or in very early free agency, something a out Whit being dinged up perhaps ? They didn't think anybody would want him and they could have their way.

Sad ! to do a damn near Bengal Legend that way but that's how MB rolls, $$$$$$$$ is first priority.

I know Coach Lewis was very upset Mike Brown didn't keep Whitworth.  This is one thing we fans CAN'T blame on Coach Lewis.  If Coach Lewis had his way Whitworth would be here.....When Dave Shula was fired by the Bengals his words on leaving were that Sam Wyche, him and the new head coaches coming will get blamed for Mike Brown.  That Mike Brown really doesn't let these coaches do their jobs. That there is too much Mike Brown in Mike Brown. .....Here we have a case where Coach Lewis wanted Whitworth to be kept on this team, but Mike Brown is Daddy Warbucks calling all the shots.

So one of the best Bengals players ever, with a wife and family, and all Mike Brown willing to offer is a one year contract.....NFL teams lined up to offer Whit a longer contract and Whit choose Rams 3 year contract. The money per year about the same, but Mike Browns disrespect in a one year contract is a slap in the face and a kick to the footballs. It was a cheap move, it was a move of disrespect, and considering Bengals lack of blocking, it was another STUPID Mike Brown move.

[J24]

Collinsworth said Marvin felt like leaving the team after the Bengals didn't sign Andrew. It was during the Texans game. IDK how much impact Mike Brown has on the Bengals but it seems to me that it is more than the Bengals and Mike are willing to admit. I am sorry I just can't see either Tobin or Marvin not use the Tag in this circumstance.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-27-2017, 10:07 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Collinsworth said Marvin felt like leaving the team after the Bengals didn't sign Andrew. It was during the Texans game. IDK how much impact Mike Brown has on the Bengals but it seems to me that it is more than the Bengals and Mike are willing to admit. I am sorry I just can't see either Tobin or Marvin not use the Tag in this circumstance.

No doubt. People say that Marvin let Whitworth and Zeitler leave. No way. Marvin wouldn't care about that.

[*Go Cards*]

One of the most embarrassing Bengals moves ever was letting Whit walk so easily. Plus an absolute insult to Andrew.

And bam, the Rams are better overnight and now leading their division.

Zeitler should have been kept too, yet fine with the Winston move. There was plenty of deadweight MB could have cut to not even lose much money and keep them.

It is almost like he is trying to sabotage his own coaches and team.

Really thought the new rule on cap money would force MB to spend on winning. But obviously they left him room to skirt the rule.

But good for Whit to not have to wallow in our misery and be on a probable playoff team now. With a good chance of being good throughout his contract. Not to mention great weather as well.

Makes me sick to think about still.

[muskiesfan]

Mike Brown still pulls the strings. I know we've all posted about Lewis having more and more control, but I still don't think he has as much as a lot of other head coaches. I remember in the 2013 Hard Knocks, Lewis said that Mike Brown sits around and makes up formations with players he'd like to see on the field together. In both Hard Knocks, we saw Brown right in the middle of the decisions on who we kept. Sure, other owners probably do some of that too, but they allow their football people to make the decisions. Not here. Brown doubles down as GM so he can get paid by the team again and continue to make decisions that run this team into the ground.

Until the Brown family is no longer running this team, coaches and players don't matter. The end result will continue to be the same.

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2017, 10:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: No doubt. People say that Marvin let Whitworth and Zeitler leave. No way. Marvin wouldn't care about that.

Yeah but Marvin had his chance to push for change after the 2010 season and he chose to cave in and stick around. Cry me a river. 

[masonbengals fan]

No excuse for letting Whit leave town. Mike Brown should be embarrassed.....

[Pat5775]

(10-28-2017, 01:01 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: No excuse for letting Whit leave town. Mike Brown should be embarrassed.....

It's sad, really. The man simply doesn't value the oline (arguably the most important unit on the field) and believes it can be improved with young, drafted players than proven veterans. 

I don't know if it has more to do with him being cheap or if he's just that stupid (probably a combo of both) but it's clearly a fact: the oline is not an area of importance for Mike Brown. 

Hopefully after this shitstorm of a year is over he'll change his tune but... I'm not holding my breath.

[jj22]

Whit got the last laugh. Blessing in disguise for him.

[Pat5775]

(10-27-2017, 10:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: No doubt. People say that Marvin let Whitworth and Zeitler leave. No way. Marvin wouldn't care about that.

Yep. This pretty much proves something I didn't believe (or, I guess, I didn't want to believe) that Mike is still more involved than many of us thought.

I still say Marv in 85-90% of the problem here. The remaining percent? The Brown family. But the brown family has little to do with the horrific game planning and lack of "journalist jargon" we see in primetime, playoff and Steeler games (and lately, any team with a winning record).

[BleedNOrange]

So what did they do with the $10 million they offered Whitworth but didn't give him to make this year's team better? They admitted they $10 million not needed for rookies and injury pool, which is always the excuse. Oh that's right, they rolled it over to the next year.

[Beaker]

(10-27-2017, 09:13 PM)kevin Wrote: Parts of article by James Marcum 3-14-2017.  ANDREW WHITWORTH OPENS UP ABOUT LEAVING BENGALS, WHY HE CHOOSE RAMS.  The Bengals let Whitworth leave with very little resistance. ....It starts by saying The Bengals tend to be cheap in free agency, even when it comes to their own players. Unfortunately this proved to be true with Whitworth, one of the best offensive linemen to ever wear a Bengals uniform.  The Bengals were willing to offer him a 10 million contract but only a one year deal.  To Bengals Fans that may sound a lot, but it wasn't close to what the Rams and other NFL teams were offering Whitworth. Whitworth liked that the Rams offered him a 3 year deal , not a one year deal, at 11 million.  Whitworth said it felt good to be wanted by a team, and once he saw that a team wanted him, he looked forward to a fresh start away from the Cincinnati Bengals situation.  He liked that the Rams don't even play Cincinnati until 2019.

Marcum writes that it's a terrible thing to lose a great player to another team. Whitworth had done enough for this franchise to warrent more than a one year contract, not to mention how much the Bengals still needed him on the offensive line. It's great to see Whitworth getting the fresh start and the 3 year contract he deserves. It's sad the Bengals didn't really try to keep him and didn't offer more than a one year contract. Looking at Bengals history it's not surprising considering how CHEAP this franchise operates.

This article can be Googled or found on internet...Here's another on internet.  Eric Winston cut by the Bengals after preseason could still be added back. He knows the Bengals system, has been a Bengals O Lineman for years, often as a starter, and was in training camp and preseason. The Bengals O Line as bad as it is, you would think they could use the veteran depth Winston could provide.  Here again a lack of respect by Bengals ownership for their own veteran players.   I will add that Eric Winston is an NFL Players Union Rep and has been talking that when the NFL contract is up, that the NFL lockout in 2021 is probably going to be far worse than the 2011 Lockout Strike between Owners and Players Union.  Now I have seen Mike Brown get rid of Players Union Reps on his team before and it might be the very reason the veteran Winston isn't on this team for depth even though the Bengals have no blocking.

So Bengals didn't try to sign Zietler to what other teams offered.  Bengals could have kept Whitworth but refused to offer him more than a one year contract, which made Whitworth feel like Bengals Owners didn't want him.  That other teams like the Rams did want him made Whitworth want out of Cincinnati and a fresh start.  Then we add losing a third veteran in Eric Winston who Bengals just cut and could get back in here for much needed experience and blocking, but I'm guessing Mike Brown is once again trying to get rid of a Union Players Rep that Winston is.  That's the only reason I can see considering our needs at O Line and Winston was better than what we now have.

I post this due to our awful O line that we could have kept Whitworth but the Bengals went real cheap on one of best Bengals ever.  Don't look for Whit to be part of Bengs 50 year History because he is trying to stay as far from Cincy as possible...I also mention Eric Winston is another veteran we could resign right now, with a message to Bengals ownership :  Your O Line STINKS and your draft picks aren't working.  Your O Line experiment blew up in your face.  Might at least want to resign Winston who is better than most of the awful O Line Depth on this team.  The Bengals might even want to try to trade some of this glut of WR's and RB's or McCarron for a much needed blocker, but as Mike Brown always says, " Why should I pay a blocker ? "  His dad Paul Brown of the great 1980's O Line and winning at Ohio State and Cleveland Browns knew that when the ball is snapped, if you don't have blocking, all the X's and O's of the playbook fail to happen if you don't have blocking when the center snaps the ball.  Mike Brown never has and never will learn that.

I am responding to points made by color:

1. The Rams offered Whitworth $11 M...the Bengals offered him $10 M...but it wasn't even close? Seems like a $1 M difference to me. As far as the length of contract, what he has done in the past should NOT warrant more in terms of length of contract offered due to Whit's age. One of the biggest gripes we hear around these forums was that ML and MB are too loyal and often hold onto players too long. Or that they play the vets at the expense of the young guys not getting experience. Sorry, but Whitworth is at the age where a season by season contract is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

2. Zeitler is simply NOT worth the $12M per year that the browns offered. He was part of this O line last year and was partially responsible for that unit being poor also. The browns had stupid money to throw at people...and they did. Evidence is for the money they paid Zeitler, and the whole $16 M for Osweiler and a 2nd round pick fiasco. 

3. Eric Winston s no better than either of the rookie OTs we are currently playing. Go back and look at some of his terrible line play last year. That fact is backed up by the fact that with all the bad O line play in the NFL, no other team has signed him either.


Your assertions that the Bengals are cheap is an old narrative that has been proven false over and over again repeatedly. And your idea that Winston is not being re-signed because he is a player rep is nonsensical.

[bonesaw]

it and not keeping one of Marvin Jones or Sanu are the two moves that will haunt us for season's to come

[Bengalitis]

Marvin is probably convincing Mike Brown that they can get the "bad boys" of college and the NFL for "cheap" (Burfict, Jones) and save him money and turn them into great players, (which fortunately worked for us with them) but cannot make a case for paying what other teams offer to players we know are worth keeping. (Sanu, Withworth, Zeitler, etc) from not so long ago. Mike Brown forgets the adage that to make money, you have to spend money. :andy:

[Derrick]

(10-27-2017, 10:07 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Collinsworth said Marvin felt like leaving the team after the Bengals didn't sign Andrew. It was during the Texans game. IDK how much impact Mike Brown has on the Bengals but it seems to me that it is more than the Bengals and Mike are willing to admit. I am sorry I just can't see either Tobin or Marvin not use the Tag in this circumstance.

We all are fools if we think that Mikey Brownpants isn't still in charge...no matter what fluff we read and hear.

[J24]

(10-28-2017, 03:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am responding to points made by color:

1. The Rams offered Whitworth $11 M...the Bengals offered him $10 M...but it wasn't even close? Seems like a $1 M difference to me. As far as the length of contract, what he has done in the past should NOT warrant more in terms of length of contract offered due to Whit's age. One of the biggest gripes we hear around these forums was that ML and MB are too loyal and often hold onto players too long. Or that they play the vets at the expense of the young guys not getting experience. Sorry, but Whitworth is at the age where a season by season contract is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

2. Zeitler is simply NOT worth the $12M per year that the browns offered. He was part of this O line last year and was partially responsible for that unit being poor also. The browns had stupid money to throw at people...and they did. Evidence is for the money they paid Zeitler, and the whole $16 M for Osweiler and a 2nd round pick fiasco. 

3. Eric Winston s no better than either of the rookie OTs we are currently playing. Go back and look at some of his terrible line play last year. That fact is backed up by the fact that with all the bad O line play in the NFL, no other team has signed him either.


Your assertions that the Bengals are cheap is an old narrative that has been proven false over and over again repeatedly. And your idea that Winston is not being re-signed because he is a player rep is nonsensical.

1.) The Bengals should have franchised him end of story.  
2.) The guy is regarded as a top 5 guard in the NFL he was worth what he got and again the Bengals should have signed him the prior offseason. Even if you believe that Zeitler wasn't worth that money there were clearly better guards out there than we have here in free agency. Why not sign them.
3.) The Bengals aren't cheap? No practice facility-, no ring of honor, and least amount of scouts In the NFL. Yeah they are cheap. I'll give you there not cheap on the roster but they are quite dumb. Is Pacman worth what he gets no, is Kirkpatrick worth what he gets no, is Vincent Rey worth what he gets paid no, is Minter worth what he gets no, and is Laffell worth what he gets No. Maybe if the Bengals didn't overspend on average players they could afford their good players.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-28-2017, 03:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am responding to points made by color:

1. The Rams offered Whitworth $11 M...the Bengals offered him $10 M...but it wasn't even close? Seems like a $1 M difference to me. As far as the length of contract, what he has done in the past should NOT warrant more in terms of length of contract offered due to Whit's age. One of the biggest gripes we hear around these forums was that ML and MB are too loyal and often hold onto players too long. Or that they play the vets at the expense of the young guys not getting experience. Sorry, but Whitworth is at the age where a season by season contract is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

2. Zeitler is simply NOT worth the $12M per year that the browns offered. He was part of this O line last year and was partially responsible for that unit being poor also. The browns had stupid money to throw at people...and they did. Evidence is for the money they paid Zeitler, and the whole $16 M for Osweiler and a 2nd round pick fiasco. 

3. Eric Winston s no better than either of the rookie OTs we are currently playing. Go back and look at some of his terrible line play last year. That fact is backed up by the fact that with all the bad O line play in the NFL, no other team has signed him either.


Your assertions that the Bengals are cheap is an old narrative that has been proven false over and over again repeatedly. And your idea that Winston is not being re-signed because he is a player rep is nonsensical.

The Rams actually have to pay him $15m if they cut him during or after this season. 10 and 15 is a big difference.

So say he tore his ACL on Week 1. With the Bengals he would have 1yr/$10m. With the Rams he would have 1yr/$15m. That $15m guaranteed is a big deal, with $5m as a signing bonus, so he got that $5m instantly, giving him an extra 6 months+ to make money with that money through investments or just interest.

[Thundercloud]

The only thing standing between us and being a true contender, is the poor play of our deteriorating offensive line. It didn't have to happen.