The stat sheet is as ugly as the game...

[muskiesfan]

This was tough. As much as I want every coach on the team let go, it wouldn't help this season at all. We're the NFL version of Cubs fans, "Wait till next year!"

[CKwi88]

It'll sound like a broken record, but for me it all comes down to o-line play.

If you can't run the ball, you get into 3rd and long with predictable play calling, you convert less third downs, your defense is on the field for longer, your defense gets gassed, gives up points, makes your offense completely one dimensional, more incomplete passes, more third and longs, more 3 and outs, your defense stays on the field longer..........rinse and repeat.

It's hard to pin this on anything but our offensive line. Could Andy play better? Sure, but we all know he's not Aaron Rodgers. We've seen what our offense was capable with a competent play caller and O-line in 2015, we need to rediscover that.

[Millhouse]

This is becoming one of the worst offenses in modern Bengal history since the 80s era. The 2008 offense might be the worst ever, but there was a lot of key injuries that caused that. This year though, there really arent any key injuries outside of Eifert. Even as bad as some of those 1990 era offenses were at times, this one is ranking right up there with them.

I was thinking of making a thread about this, doing more research into, but I really dont care to to be honest. If someone wants to, knock yourself out, would like to see the numbers on how bad this offense compares to past bad ones.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-05-2017, 11:24 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This is becoming one of the worst offenses in modern Bengal history since the 80s era. The 2008 offense might be the worst ever, but there was a lot of key injuries that caused that. This year though, there really arent any key injuries outside of Eifert. Even as bad as some of those 1990 era offenses were at times, this one is ranking right up there with them.

I was thinking of making a thread about this, doing more research into, but I really dont care to to be honest. If someone wants to, knock yourself out, would like to see the numbers on how bad this offense compares to past bad ones.

This team has been in a downward spiral since the loss to the Texans that snapped the 8 game winning streak to start 2015.

[muskiesfan]

(11-05-2017, 11:24 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This is becoming one of the worst offenses in modern Bengal history since the 80s era. The 2008 offense might be the worst ever, but there was a lot of key injuries that caused that. This year though, there really arent any key injuries outside of Eifert. Even as bad as some of those 1990 era offenses were at times, this one is ranking right up there with them.

I was thinking of making a thread about this, doing more research into, but I really dont care to to be honest. If someone wants to, knock yourself out, would like to see the numbers on how bad this offense compares to past bad ones.

I don't know what exactly you're looking for, but here's some quick info.

Here are the Bengals average ranks in rushing yards, yards per carry, and rushing touchdowns (remember there were 28 teams for most of the 90s)
Yards - 13.8
YPC- 10.9
TDs- 17.4

2011-2017
Yards- 16.7
YPC- 22.1
TDs- 14.9

Worst 90s seasons
Yards- 1995, 24th
YPC- 1993, 21st
TDs- 1993, 28th

Worst 2011-17
Yards- 2017, 30th (doesn't include today)
YPS- 2017, 30th " "
TDs- 2017, 31st " "

Bengals averages in passing yards, sacks (the lower the number, the worse), and TDs for the 90s,
Yards- 17.4
Sacks- 10.7
TDs- 14.3

2011-17
Yards- 17.4
Sacks- 20.4
TDs- 15.1

Worst 90s
Yards- 1992 & 1993, 27th
Sacks- 1993, 1st (means they gave up the most sacks in the league)
TDs- 1993, 25th

Worst 2011-17
Yards- 2017, 26th
Sacks- 2012, 7th
TDs- 2014 & 2016, 26th

[MrRager]

(11-05-2017, 11:11 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: It'll sound like a broken record, but for me it all comes down to o-line play.

If you can't run the ball, you get into 3rd and long with predictable play calling, you convert less third downs, your defense is on the field for longer, your defense gets gassed, gives up points, makes your offense completely one dimensional, more incomplete passes, more third and longs, more 3 and outs, your defense stays on the field longer..........rinse and repeat.

It's hard to pin this on anything but our offensive line. Could Andy play better? Sure, but we all know he's not Aaron Rodgers. We've seen what our offense was capable with a competent play caller and O-line in 2015, we need to rediscover that.

It wasn't just the offense forcing the defense on the field so much. The defense itself couldn't get off the field on third downs from the start of the game. They are just as responsible.

[McC]

(11-06-2017, 12:15 AM)MrRager Wrote: It wasn't just the offense forcing the defense on the field so much. The defense itself couldn't get off the field on third downs from the start of the game. They are just as responsible.

Not defending the defense.  They couldn't cover, rush or tackle.  But I ask myself what it feels like taking the field knowing you're screwed and how long it takes for that to break down your will.  

A plow horse like Vinnie Rey is out there while a stallion rides the pine and runners are gashing us and TE's crucify us. 

Our best CB gets the fewest snaps.  All our schemes are passive.  If we can't get to the QB with four, we just go on not getting to the QB.  The Bengals play chicken shit football, plain and simple.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-05-2017, 11:24 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This is becoming one of the worst offenses in modern Bengal history since the 80s era. The 2008 offense might be the worst ever, but there was a lot of key injuries that caused that. This year though, there really arent any key injuries outside of Eifert. Even as bad as some of those 1990 era offenses were at times, this one is ranking right up there with them.

I was thinking of making a thread about this, doing more research into, but I really dont care to to be honest. If someone wants to, knock yourself out, would like to see the numbers on how bad this offense compares to past bad ones.

2000 was our worst offensive year ever, despite finishing 2nd in rush yards and 5th in YPC. Our QB play was just that bad.

- we averaged 11.6 points/game
- our QBs completed 45.6% with a 52.0 rating...6 TDs for the entire season 
- sacked 52 times
- we were shut out 3 times
- held to 7 points or less 8 times
- scored more than 17 only 3 times
- led the league in fumbles lost, mostly by our QBs

Now that I look back at 2008 though, you could make an argument for it...

- 12.8 points/game
- our QBs completed 59.1% with a 68.0 rating. 11 TDs for the year
- sacked 51 times 
- run game was also bad, finishing 29th in yards and 30th in YPC
- no shutouts and was held to 7 or less only 4 times, but held to 16 or less 12 times


Overall, I still think 2000 was worse. More games where the offense literally did nothing. Plus I'd rather have Fitzy/Palmer at QB than Akili/Scott Mitchell. Young fans have no idea how bad those guys were.

Btw, that legendary 2000 Ravens defense (coached by Marv) got the benefit of playing us and the expansion Browns twice each. Those Browns were somehow even worse than those Bengals, averaging 10.0 points/game and IIRC, they were shut out twice by the Ravens.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-05-2017, 11:11 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: It'll sound like a broken record, but for me it all comes down to o-line play.

If you can't run the ball, you get into 3rd and long with predictable play calling, you convert less third downs, your defense is on the field for longer, your defense gets gassed, gives up points, makes your offense completely one dimensional, more incomplete passes, more third and longs, more 3 and outs, your defense stays on the field longer..........rinse and repeat.

It's hard to pin this on anything but our offensive line. Could Andy play better? Sure, but we all know he's not Aaron Rodgers. We've seen what our offense was capable with a competent play caller and O-line in 2015, we need to rediscover that.

That is all true, but the defense wasn't gassed in the first half when they let JAX run and pass up and down the field the entire 30 minutes.  The Jags should've had at least 3 TDs by halftime.  The defense was terrible out of the gate as well.  The entire team was garbage from the jump....even giving up another punt return TD.  Pathetic performance across the board.

[sandwedge]

(11-06-2017, 03:24 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2000 was our worst offensive year ever, despite finishing 2nd in rush yards and 5th in YPC. Our QB play was just that bad.

- we averaged 11.6 points/game
- our QBs completed 45.6% with a 52.0 rating...6 TDs for the entire season 
- sacked 52 times
- we were shut out 3 times
- held to 7 points or less 8 times
- scored more than 17 only 3 times
- led the league in fumbles lost, mostly by our QBs

Now that I look back at 2008 though, you could make an argument for it...

- 12.8 points/game
- our QBs completed 59.1% with a 68.0 rating. 11 TDs for the year
- sacked 51 times 
- run game was also bad, finishing 29th in yards and 30th in YPC
- no shutouts and was held to 7 or less only 4 times, but held to 16 or less 12 times


Overall, I still think 2000 was worse. More games where the offense literally did nothing. Plus I'd rather have Fitzy/Palmer at QB than Akili/Scott Mitchell. Young fans have no idea how bad those guys were.

Btw, that legendary 2000 Ravens defense (coached by Marv) got the benefit of playing us and the expansion Browns twice each. Those Browns were somehow even worse than those Bengals, averaging 10.0 points/game and IIRC, they were shut out twice by the Ravens.

We just have to play better.....

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-06-2017, 07:37 PM)sandwedge Wrote: We just have to play better.....

You forgot the giggle, giggle

[Shake n Blake]

(11-06-2017, 07:37 PM)sandwedge Wrote: We just have to play better.....

I wonder how many time ol' Mervy said that in 2008?

Or the trusty "we did some good things...and so forth".  :giggle:

[Derrick]

(11-06-2017, 03:24 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2000 was our worst offensive year ever, despite finishing 2nd in rush yards and 5th in YPC. Our QB play was just that bad.

- we averaged 11.6 points/game
- our QBs completed 45.6% with a 52.0 rating...6 TDs for the entire season 
- sacked 52 times
- we were shut out 3 times
- held to 7 points or less 8 times
- scored more than 17 only 3 times
- led the league in fumbles lost, mostly by our QBs

Now that I look back at 2008 though, you could make an argument for it...

- 12.8 points/game
- our QBs completed 59.1% with a 68.0 rating. 11 TDs for the year
- sacked 51 times 
- run game was also bad, finishing 29th in yards and 30th in YPC
- no shutouts and was held to 7 or less only 4 times, but held to 16 or less 12 times


Overall, I still think 2000 was worse. More games where the offense literally did nothing. Plus I'd rather have Fitzy/Palmer at QB than Akili/Scott Mitchell. Young fans have no idea how bad those guys were.

Btw, that legendary 2000 Ravens defense (coached by Marv) got the benefit of playing us and the expansion Browns twice each. Those Browns were somehow even worse than those Bengals, averaging 10.0 points/game and IIRC, they were shut out twice by the Ravens.

Marvin's rep must have been based on those games alone. We know he isn't worth a plug nickel at coaching defense, or anything else, these days.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-06-2017, 08:20 PM)Derrick Wrote: Marvin's rep must have been based on those games alone. We know he isn't worth a plug nickel at coaching defense, or anything else, these days.

That defense had Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, Chris McAlister, Peter Boulware, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary and Sam Adams. That's 2 Hall of Famer's and 7 Pro Bowlers. This is not even including Jamie Sharper and Tony Siragusa. Maybe the best collection of defensive talent ever assembled. Marvin just had the benefit of coaching it...in a division that included the expansion Browns, Akili Bengals and Kordell Steelers. 

They were a great defense, but the terrible opponents helped them set the record for least points allowed, which is what made them famous.

I used to bring this up a lot and Fred would respond by saying that Marv led the Redskins to a ranking of 5th in yards allowed in 2002. Of course, he always neglected to mention that they were 21st in points allowed, and that defense was also littered with HOF and Pro Bowl players (Bruce Smith, Darrell Green, Champ Bailey, LaVar Arrington, Jesse Armstead, and Jeremiah Trotter). 

Talk about an embarrassment of riches. I don't think Marv is a bad DC, but he definitely benefited from being in the right places at the right times.