How can you justify NOT starting AJ McCarron the rest of the season?

[muskiesfan]

Here are my justifications

Starting McCarron effectively ends Dalton's career in Cincinnati. It comletely undercuts Dalton to the team. It would also drive down trade value on Dalton for next season if you decide to move on from him. Whether people want to believe it or not, other teams would be interested in Dalton but the team would be lowering the potential ROI if they bench him for the rest of this season.

Starting McCarron has a very good chance of lowering McCarron's trade value. The OLine and running game aren't going to do McCarron any favors. If he were to take the field and get his ass kicked every week, it's not going to help the Bengals get a ROI on him like they almost got this season. It would lower his trade value and it would also lower his value if he loses his cases and is a RFA. The Bengals have made it known that they will place a 1st round tender on McCarron. If he plays poorly behind this line, no one is going to touch him and then they're stuck trying to move the guy they benched for a lessed value now as well.

While I understand everyone's frustration with this season, this is not the time to make this move. Dalton gives the team a better chance to win each and every week than McCarron does. On top of that, it would create a real problem for the team especially if McCarron doesn't play well either. There are much more pressing issues that need addressed than Dalton.

[Daddy-O]

(11-06-2017, 11:24 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I dont really care at this point. I'de rather evaluate AJ and see if hes the guy.
 

If he was the guy he'd be starting at QB.  If you can't see the problem with this team might be time to see the Optometrist.

[leonardfan40]

(11-06-2017, 11:13 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: How can you justify it?

Easy, Dalton is better. That’s how you justify it lol

[Daddy-O]

(11-06-2017, 03:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We have seen what we have in AJM as well and he sucked all Offseason and has a much slower release then Dalton.

Might be able to set the sack record if we put AJM in, if that is what you want.

Keep starting Dalton and hope he turns it around and plays decent and maybe we might be able to get something for him.

The Browns guy up top sabotaged the trade for AJM cause he knew he wasn't worth it and this is the Browns.

I would trade Dalton and draft Baker Mayfield.

I like Baker Mayfield but not sure he's durable enough to play behind our OL.  AD is at least durable.  Believe he's only missed time in 2015 when he broke his thumb.  Pretty unheard of for a QB.

[kevin]

(11-06-2017, 11:13 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: How can you justify it?

At this point, us and the Bengals know what we have in Dalton. Andy has reached his potential and his ceiling is somewhere between below average (when he has a bad offensive line and offense) to above average (when everything on the offense is perfect).

So, why not start McCarron and see what you have in the guy? See if hes the answer at quarterback and see if hes an upgrade over Dalton. The season is all but over (no way this team is good enough to make the playoffs).

I wouldn't start him....I would hope he remains a restricted free agent so a 1st or 2nd round tender can be placed on him and we get a 1st or a 2nd round draft pick for him.  ...Of course this blows up of he gets injured.....So I justify him never leaving the bench to get the draft pick. ...I would add that at 3-5, our seasons dead in the water....and also the O Line will be just as awful for McCarron as for Dalton.  There is no blocking.  The best quarterback ever couldn't win with this O Line. 

No, 2017 is a lost cause, and lets keep McCarron nice and healthy to get a good draft pick, because after 2016 and 2017, Yes, this is rebuilding mode now.  We need to draft heavy in blockers.  We have no blocking.  I would draft any and all 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks on blocking to start building an O Line because ours is just awful. One pick won't cut it. We really need 5 new guys across the board because our 5 stink.  The people that drafted these guys need FIRED and nothing to do with the 2018 draft. Both these tackles they drafted, Fisher and Og are just awful. Everybody involved in drafting them should be FIRED.

[*Nately120*]

From a personal standpoint (as in my job isn't connected to the result) I wouldn't mind if McCarron played, but let's take a look at the QBs who have actually been benched so far this season:

Texans - Tom Savage
Broncos - Trevor Siemian (and Brock Osweiller, soon I'm sure)
Browns - Kizer and Hogan (they're the Browns, so benching QBs is a given)
Colts - Scott Tolzein
Bears - Mike Glennon
49ers - Brian Hoyer


Did I miss any? But man oh man, I wouldn't lump Dalton in with that collage of crap if he were my worst enemy.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-06-2017, 03:13 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Please... Stop. The excuse making is pathetically sad. There's a difference between explanations and excuses. These blanket statements as if Andy hasn't had any chances to be good or great are sad excuses.

1. Andy Dalton has missed plays and been bad even when he's had time this season. Sorry, but he has. He's missed plenty of throws that were needed when they were there to make. Certainly a lot more than he's made. He's not under duress every single snap. Not at all or even close. He's had time and blown it.... over and over.

2. NOBODY in their right mind is thinking "Well, with Andy Dalton the Bengals have a chance." when the Bengals are underdogs. 2. He's not any sort of big reason the Bengals win or any sort of significant significant difference maker. Virtually ANY starter in the NFL over the past few seasons would be able to have done what Andy Dalton has done with this team around him.

This doesn't excuse the bad Oline play. It's been horrific. But when the plays have been there... He leads AJ out of bounds. Over.. and over... and over. He sucks.

1. This just isn't true. Dalton has had good games against the Packers, Browns, Bills and Colts this year...and it's not like he's consistently had time at ANY point this year. He's missed a few plays on the rare occasion he has time, I'll give you that. What QB doesn't though? He's not elite...and tbh even elite guys miss some plays.

2. In our 3 wins, he was voted #1, #2 and #2 in the game ball threads. We don't win any of those 3 games without Dalton playing well in the face of immense pressure. Dalton has 59 wins for his career. If you don't think he's been a key player or lifted his team in many of those, I don't know what to tell you. Look up his game log. Maybe that will job your memory a bit.
_______________________________

Dalton is not Peyton Manning. He's not going to lift a shit roster. There might be 3 guys like that on the planet, and tbh I think even they would struggle behind this line with the 32nd ranked run game (yards and YPC). I don't think some people quite understand how miserable Dalton's supporting cast is right now. 

I love how Dalton has always had people taking credit from him due to all these mythical weapons and great supporting cast, but now his supporting cast blows and it's "no excuses, he sucks". Thing is, any mid-tier QB like Dalton needs a decent cast. Not 1999 Rams. Just "decent" at the very least. Dalton's supporting cast couldn't be much worse right now.

It's a freaking miracle he has a respectable 86.5 rating. He and AJ Green (to an extent Kroft) are literally the ONLY things the offense has going for it. I'd hate to see this offense with a less competent QB at the helm. One decent WR to throw to (that teams key in on). The worst run game in franchise history. The worst o-line in team history. 
Yet people are blaming the non-elite QB for not putting up great numbers in those circumstances. 

[sandwedge]

(11-06-2017, 02:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: At this point, I really don't care. The Bengals aren't winning no matter who they trot out there. Mike Brown sucks. Marvin and Ivory Tickler suck. The line is a disaster. We can't run (32nd in rush yards AND average per rush). Our defense looks disinterested. We're probably several years from winning again. I'm to the point where I hope the Bengals start McCarron just so I can sit back and have a laugh at all the folks who thought he'd be better than Dalton.

It'd be pretty hilarious to watch these anti-Dalton guys start defending Mac by blaming the line for his terrible performances. They'd be correct, but it would just expose their hypocrisy. Dalton gets no such benefit of the doubt.

HaHaHA, I was just thinking the same thing! When we play Pittsburgh in a few weeks and getting blownout, let's play McCarron in the second half just to shut these people up.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-06-2017, 03:41 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: I like Baker Mayfield but not sure he's durable enough to play behind our OL.  AD is at least durable.  Believe he's only missed time in 2015 when he broke his thumb.  Pretty unheard of for a QB.

I know assumption is the mother of all f ups but i am assuming we have a new O-line coach next season and a better O-line.

True about Dalton being durable, and he DOES have a very fast release unlike AJM, just thinking Dalton may have been ruined
here and it might not be able to get out of his head. Maybe a whole new coaching staff can bring a breath of fresh air and Dalton
becomes that same guy or even better than 2015. Just don't know about it, Dalton has missed a lot of big plays this season.

We need an enima around this place is all i know.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-06-2017, 03:50 PM)sandwedge Wrote: HaHaHA, I was just thinking the same thing! When we play Pittsburgh in a few weeks and getting blownout, let's play McCarron in the second half just to shut these people up.

Hey, atleast that would be something.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-06-2017, 03:50 PM)sandwedge Wrote: HaHaHA, I was just thinking the same thing! When we play Pittsburgh in a few weeks and getting blownout, let's play McCarron in the second half just to shut these people up.

Heck. Let him play this week vs the Titans. I'm not even being sarcastic. I'd love to see it. 

Not for McCarron's sake though. That poor guy's best bet is to wait and get out ASAP.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-06-2017, 03:27 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Not to beat our shitty rushing attack to death, but Jets QB Josh McCown has more rushing touchdowns than the entire Bengals offense (3 to 2). So we have no rushing attack and a bad OLine that allows free runners at our QB, however it's Dalton's fault for teams being able to drop everyone in coverage, blitz whenever they want, and not respect the running game.

Yeah, that be bad. Hard to blame Dalton for much except when he misses receivers, that is my only problem.

[GreenCornBengal]

Playing McCarron this season will only decrease his value. He isn't going to do well behind this line, so lets keep the positive image of McCarron afloat while we can.

P.S. if he wins the Grievance before the season is out and is Unrestricted, play that *****

[WeezyBengal]

(11-06-2017, 11:29 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: This fantasy land you all live in where AJ McCarron is some world beater QB is crazy... 

what do you base it off of.


While marvin is still the coach hes gonna try to win games...  You wanna lose the locker room pull the starting QB its a good way to loss fans too as its the big F U we are tanking the season move

DALTON is not the reason we are losing games we are getting Dominated in the trenches...

And what do you base him NOT being a world beater at QB off of? Fact of the matter is, you have an unknown with McCarron sitting on your bench about to hit free agency in the off season. If youre in the front office, what harm is it to start him the rest of the season to evaluate him? The season is OVER. 

[WeezyBengal]

(11-06-2017, 01:58 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I’d guess he gets plenty of evaluation during practice & preseason, as well as game time two years ago.

Yeah, just like Mixon and WJ3. 

Even if Mccarron does practice better than Andy, no way this Bengals staff is going to play him due to hurting Andy Dalton's feelings. 

[George Cantstandya]

(11-06-2017, 04:28 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And what do you base him NOT being a world beater at QB off of? Fact of the matter is, you have an unknown with McCarron sitting on your bench about to hit free agency in the off season. If youre in the front office, what harm is it to start him the rest of the season to evaluate him? The season is OVER. 

What harm?  Well there are still questions related to his free agency status.  So the harm could be he plays like crap, remains a restricted free agent and his value drops.  Right now it appears he can probably be valued with a second round tender based on the Browns offer that fell through and several teams that are going to be QB needy next year.  So if he plays like garbage his value drops significantly and the Bengals at best can put an original round tender on him, meaning fifth round.

So that is a potential harm.  Again there are a lot of unknowns.  He status for next year being one and it depends on his arbitration case.

Of course if AJ wins his case and enters unrestricted free agency none of that will matter anyway and the messed up Browns deal looks even worse.

I agree the Bengals season is a wash. So as of now it seams there is no reason to risk the potential value AJ has by playing him on a team with a terrible o-line and very few offensive weapons.

Look at it this way. Say you have a decent low mileage car you have not driven for over a year. You think it is a good car but are unsure as you have not driven it in a while. You have a good idea that some people will be willing to pay you for the car without test driving it because it looks like a good car to them as well. However, you decide to take the car out for a drive the transmission fails or it gets hit by another car and wrecked and all those potential buyers find out about it. What happens to the value of that car?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-06-2017, 04:43 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: What harm?  Well there are still questions related to his free agency status.  So the harm could be he plays like crap, remains a restricted free agent and his value drops.  Right now it appears he can probably be valued with a second round tender based on the Browns offer that fell through and several teams that are going to be QB needy next year.  So if he plays like garbage his value drops significantly and the Bengals at best can put an original round tender on him, meaning fifth round.

So that is a potential harm.  Again there are a lot of unknowns.  He status for next year being one and it depends on his arbitration case.

I agree the Bengals season is a wash.  So as of now it seams there is no reason to risk the potential value AJ has by playing him on a team with a terrible o-line and very few offensive weapons.

True George, true.

Also can pretty much guarantee AJM would play like worse crap than Dalton behind this O-line
and that was before he was sucking it up worse than Driskell in the Preseason. If AJM was playing
even decent in the Preseason i might understand Weezy's thoughts a bit.

Didn't even looked like he cared and was surprised the Clowns were even interested after this.

[WeezyBengal]

(11-06-2017, 03:37 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: If he was the guy he'd be starting at QB.  If you can't see the problem with this team might be time to see the Optometrist.

How can you honestly say that when this team has repeatedly played washed up veterans over talented rookies all season long? 

[BengalChris]

(11-06-2017, 11:13 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: How can you justify it?

At this point, us and the Bengals know what we have in Dalton. Andy has reached his potential and his ceiling is somewhere between below average (when he has a bad offensive line and offense) to above average (when everything on the offense is perfect).

So, why not start McCarron and see what you have in the guy? See if hes the answer at quarterback and see if hes an upgrade over Dalton. The season is all but over (no way this team is good enough to make the playoffs).

This is easy to answer. Dalton is the best QB on the Bengals roster. McCarron, if given the chance to start, is probably better than some starting QBs around the league. He did, after all, win two national championships in college.

But I ask, is McCarron good enough to overcome the weaknesses in the OL and receiving corp? The answer is no, so it wouldn't do anything or salvage this season, which is trashed at this point.

You simply cannot win in the NFL if you can't control the line of scrimmage.

It's easier to find 5 new offensive linemen than finding a decent QB and 5 new offensive linemen, as the previous poster has already stated. Look at the trouble some teams have at finding even a below average QB. Cleveland hasn't found one since they returned from the grave.

Now if a top QB prospect falls to us in the draft, then I say you do have to pull the trigger. At worst we'd have a player who could take over when Dalton's contract ends.

[WeezyBengal]

(11-06-2017, 04:43 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: What harm?  Well there are still questions related to his free agency status.  So the harm could be he plays like crap, remains a restricted free agent and his value drops.  Right now it appears he can probably be valued with a second round tender based on the Browns offer that fell through and several teams that are going to be QB needy next year.  So if he plays like garbage his value drops significantly and the Bengals at best can put an original round tender on him, meaning fifth round.

So that is a potential harm.  Again there are a lot of unknowns.  He status for next year being one and it depends on his arbitration case.

I agree the Bengals season is a wash.  So as of now it seams there is no reason to risk the potential value AJ has by playing him on a team with a terrible o-line and very few offensive weapons.

Look at it this way.  Say you have a decent low mileage car you have not driven for over a year.  You think it is a good car but are unsure as you have not driven it in a while.  You have a good idea that some people will be willing to pay you for the car without test driving it.  However, you decide to take the car out for a drive the transmission fails or it gets hit by another car and wrecked and all those potential buyers find out about it. What happens to the value of that car?

You people over value draft picks. 

AJM was a draft pick at one point and you have no idea what you have in him. Who cares if we miss out on a second round pick. Im willing to make that gamble in order to find a reliable QB. Its not like we played out draft picks anyway.