Remember how Marv coached defense in Baltimore?

[Hoofhearted]

(11-08-2017, 11:47 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: To answer the op's question.  I don't remember, and neither does he.

Why would we PROMOTE him to GM with what he's done at HC? I don't get this what so ever.

[PDub80]

MARVIN'S MYTH


Marvin Lewis started with the Baltimore Ravens as a Defensive Coordinator in 1996. Here are the Baltimore Ravens defensive rankings in points allowed under Marvin and then the DC’s following him so that we can see if the coaching changes mattered (SPOILER ALERT #1: They didn’t). They changed from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4 and I will note that so we can see the change and if there was any effect (SPOILER ALERT #2: There isn’t). I will also add in significant player notes so we can see when his roster was elevated with not just good or great players, but also all-timers and Hall of Famers and then see if there were any changes to show Marvin’s “coaching ability” getting better (SPOILER ALERT #3: There were).

- Please note, we can get into all sorts of defensive rankings of other stats like yards, passing, against the run, etc. if you wish, but for this post I’m just going to show this 1 key stat and if people don’t get the point or need this spoon fed to them to the N'th degree, I’ll do so. I’m hoping that we’re all smart enough to see what’s important here.
Below is the Ravens DC/year: Points against ranking of their defense (player notes)

MARVIN/1996: 28/30 (Ray Lewis ROOKIE)

MARVIN/1997: 18/30 (ADDED Siragusa, Jamie Sharper, Michael McCrary, Boulware ROOKIE, Ray Lewis 2nd year – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1998: 16/30 (ADDED Rod Woodson, Duane Starks, Boulware 2nd year – Pro Bowl, Lewis – Pro Bowl, McCrary – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1999: 6/31 (ADDED: Chris McAlister)

MARVIN/2000: 1/31 (ADDED: Sam Adams, Adalius Thomas)

MARVIN/2001: 4/31 (No NOTABLE ADDITIONS, Thomas 2nd year, Kelly Gregg)


2002 BIG CHANGES…. MARVIN LEAVES FOR THE REDSKINS. RAVENS PROMOTE MIKE NOLAN TO DC. MIKE NOLAN SWITCHES AWAY FROM MARVIN’S DEFENSE FROM A 4-3 TO A 3-4. THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO CHANGES IN THE RAVENS PERFORMANCE ON D...


PLEASE NOTE: Mike Nolan was the Ravens WR coach at the time and had NOTHING to do with Marvin or this BS “Marvin coaching tree” theory. So, don’t go there. Previous to being the Ravens WR coach for 1 season, Nolan was the DC for the Giants, Redskins, and NY Jets. Again, NOTHING to do with Marvin or any sort of tutelage from him.

MIKE NOLAN (promoted from WRs coach)/2002: 19/32 (LOST: RAY LEWIS TO INJURY: PLAYED 5 Games, ADDED: Ed Reed – ROOKIE, Bart Scott - ROOKIE)

For Funsies- MARVIN (REDSKINS DC)/2002: 21/32 (Previous season the Redskins were ranked 13/31 SO, MARVIN REALLY BROUGHT THE THUNDER HERE AND MADE A DIFFERENECE… Psssshhhh)

MIKE NOLAN/2003: 6/32 (ADDED: Ray Lewis full 16 game season)

MIKE NOLAN/2004: 6/32 (ADDED: Terrell Suggs – Pro Bowl, Deon Sanders who played 9 games with 2 starts)

2005 BIG CHANGES. REX RYAN PROMOTED TO DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. RAVENS SWITCH TO A 4-3. Rex Ryan was the D-line coach under Marvin for 3 seasons AND the D-line coach under Mike Nolan for 3 seasons. NOT enough evidence to show an influence from Marvin OR Mike Nolan to point one way or the other.

REX RYAN/2005: 10/32 (No notable additions)

REX RYAN/2006: 1/32 (ADDED: Dewan Landry, Samari Rolle, Haloti Ngata – Rookie)

REX RYAN switched back to a 3-4/2007: 22/32 (ADDED Nothing Notable)

REX RYAN/2008: 2/32 (ADDED: Fabian Washington)

2009: Changed DC to Greg Mattison: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM IN HIS CAREER

GREG MATTISON/2009: 3/32 (ADDED: Domonique Foxworth, Chris Carr)

GREG MATTISON/2010: 3/32 (ADDED: Cory Redding, LOST Ed Reed for 6 games)

2011: Changed DC to Chuck Pagano: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM.

CHUCK PAGANO/2011: 3/32 (ADDED: Nothing of note)

No reason to keep going at this point, right? I think we’re, what, 4 coaches removed from Marvin and the Ravens have switched schemes and stayed incredibly good on defense. I have shown that there was little to no connection from Marvin to them doing so. I showed where Marvin had received a MASSIVE influx of talent in both young players and veterans still in their prime when he achieved his peak defensive notable achievements. Marvin had several hall of famers and long time NFL greats as well as the guys after him. But, just for fun….

DEEN PEES/2013, 14, 15, 16: 12/32 (Ray Lewis LOST for 10 games), 6/32, 24/32, 9/32

So, please… Tell me again how Marvin Lewis was some incredible defensive coach. He’s a non-factor and beneficiary of UNBELIEVABLE talent. Talent who continued to get better and dominate for long periods of time, through multiple coaches and schemes well after he had left. Meanwhile, the team he went to, the Redskins significantly REGRESSED on defense under Marvin, and the Cincinnati Bengals defense stunk until Mike Zimmer came along (again… NOTHING to do with the Marvin coaching tree). To say that Marvin coached a certain way, blah, blah, blah is just conjecture that means nothing. The results are what they are regardless of how we think/imagine/dream/play make believe Marvin influenced games 20+ years ago. He didn't. He doesn't.

Moral of the story, kids... Do your homework before coming to a conclusion and making a thread. I swear, man. It's like some of you have no idea how to actually use the internet to do research and come out with an informed conclusion.

[J24]

I think one of the problems with Marvin is he let's his coordinators do their own thing and he doesn't put as much input as he nessary should. Thats why he has a lot of coaches get hired because they have been given a lot of responsibility here.

[PDub80]

(11-09-2017, 12:15 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I think one of the problems with Marvin is he let's his coordinators do their own thing and he doesn't put as much input as he nessary should.  Thats why he has a lot of coaches get hired because they have been given a lot of responsibility here.

See my post above. Marvin's input doesn't really mean anything. His reputation is built on the backs of Hall of Fame players from 20+ years ago. Unless Rod Woodson and Ray Lewis find a time machine and then decide to sign with the Bengals, Marvin's coaching input doesn't mean jack squat. At this point, I'm inclined to believe he's an idiot based on his defenses here before Mike Zimmer, his pre-snap issues, and his innate knack to somehow get less with more.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-09-2017, 12:13 PM)PDub80 Wrote: MARVIN'S MYTH


Marvin Lewis started with the Baltimore Ravens as a Defensive Coordinator in 1996. Here are the Baltimore Ravens defensive rankings in points allowed under Marvin and then the DC’s following him so that we can see if the coaching changes mattered (SPOILER ALERT #1: They didn’t). They changed from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4 and I will note that so we can see the change and if there was any effect (SPOILER ALERT #2: There isn’t). I will also add in significant player notes so we can see when his roster was elevated with not just good or great players, but also all-timers and Hall of Famers and then see if there were any changes to show Marvin’s “coaching ability” getting better (SPOILER ALERT #3: There were).

- Please note, we can get into all sorts of defensive rankings of other stats like yards, passing, against the run, etc. if you wish, but for this post I’m just going to show this 1 key stat and if people don’t get the point or need this spoon fed to them to the N'th degree, I’ll do so. I’m hoping that we’re all smart enough to see what’s important here.
Below is the Ravens DC/year: Points against ranking of their defense (player notes)

MARVIN/1996: 28/30 (Ray Lewis ROOKIE)

MARVIN/1997: 18/30 (ADDED Siragusa, Jamie Sharper, Michael McCrary, Boulware ROOKIE, Ray Lewis 2nd year – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1998: 16/30 (ADDED Rod Woodson, Duane Starks, Boulware 2nd year – Pro Bowl, Lewis – Pro Bowl, McCrary – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1999: 6/31 (ADDED: Chris McAlister)

MARVIN/2000: 1/31 (ADDED: Sam Adams, Adalius Thomas)

MARVIN/2001: 4/31 (No NOTABLE ADDITIONS, Thomas 2nd year, Kelly Gregg)


2002 BIG CHANGES…. MARVIN LEAVES FOR THE REDSKINS. RAVENS PROMOTE MIKE NOLAN TO DC. MIKE NOLAN SWITCHES AWAY FROM MARVIN’S DEFENSE FROM A 4-3 TO A 3-4. THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO CHANGES IN THE RAVENS PERFORMANCE ON D...


PLEASE NOTE: Mike Nolan was the Ravens WR coach at the time and had NOTHING to do with Marvin or this BS “Marvin coaching tree” theory. So, don’t go there. Previous to being the Ravens WR coach for 1 season, Nolan was the DC for the Giants, Redskins, and NY Jets. Again, NOTHING to do with Marvin or any sort of tutelage from him.

MIKE NOLAN (promoted from WRs coach)/2002: 19/32 (LOST: RAY LEWIS TO INJURY: PLAYED 5 Games, ADDED: Ed Reed – ROOKIE, Bart Scott - ROOKIE)

For Funsies- MARVIN (REDSKINS DC)/2002: 21/32 (Previous season the Redskins were ranked 13/31 SO, MARVIN REALLY BROUGHT THE THUNDER HERE AND MADE A DIFFERENECE… Psssshhhh)

MIKE NOLAN/2003: 6/32 (ADDED: Ray Lewis full 16 game season)

MIKE NOLAN/2004: 6/32 (ADDED: Terrell Suggs – Pro Bowl, Deon Sanders who played 9 games with 2 starts)

2005 BIG CHANGES. REX RYAN PROMOTED TO DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. RAVENS SWITCH TO A 4-3. Rex Ryan was the D-line coach under Marvin for 3 seasons AND the D-line coach under Mike Nolan for 3 seasons. NOT enough evidence to show an influence from Marvin OR Mike Nolan to point one way or the other.

REX RYAN/2005: 10/32 (No notable additions)

REX RYAN/2006: 1/32 (ADDED: Dewan Landry, Samari Rolle, Haloti Ngata – Rookie)

REX RYAN switched back to a 3-4/2007: 22/32 (ADDED Nothing Notable)

REX RYAN/2008: 2/32 (ADDED: Fabian Washington)

2009: Changed DC to Greg Mattison: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM IN HIS CAREER

GREG MATTISON/2009: 3/32 (ADDED: Domonique Foxworth, Chris Carr)

GREG MATTISON/2010: 3/32 (ADDED: Cory Redding, LOST Ed Reed for 6 games)

2011: Changed DC to Chuck Pagano: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM.

CHUCK PAGANO/2011: 3/32 (ADDED: Nothing of note)

No reason to keep going at this point, right? I think we’re, what, 4 coaches removed from Marvin and the Ravens have switched schemes and stayed incredibly good on defense. I have shown that there was little to no connection from Marvin to them doing so. I showed where Marvin had received a MASSIVE influx of talent in both young players and veterans still in their prime when he achieved his peak defensive notable achievements. Marvin had several hall of famers and long time NFL greats as well as the guys after him. But, just for fun….

DEEN PEES/2013, 14, 15, 16: 12/32 (Ray Lewis LOST for 10 games), 6/32, 24/32, 9/32

So, please… Tell me again how Marvin Lewis was some incredible defensive coach. He’s a non-factor and beneficiary of UNBELIEVABLE talent. Talent who continued to get better and dominate for long periods of time, through multiple coaches and schemes well after he had left. Meanwhile, the team he went to, the Redskins significantly REGRESSED on defense under Marvin, and the Cincinnati Bengals defense stunk until Mike Zimmer came along (again… NOTHING to do with the Marvin coaching tree). To say that Marvin coached a certain way, blah, blah, blah is just conjecture that means nothing. The results are what they are regardless of how we think/imagine/dream/play make believe Marvin influenced games 20+ years ago. He didn't. He doesn't.

Moral of the story kids... Do your homework before coming to a conclusion and making a thread. I swear, man. it's like some of you have no idea how to actually use the internet to do research and come out with an informed conclusion.

Yes. Basically teams want the coordinators from teams with great offenses or defenses as the new HC's...but most of the time those teams have loaded personnel. And to get loaded personnel...these teams generally have a good front office.

So what you get is a coach having to coach a team with less talent, that isn't used to having the scouting demands on them.

[PDub80]

(11-09-2017, 12:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. Basically teams want the coordinators from teams with great offenses or defenses as the new HC's...but most of the time those teams have loaded personnel. And to get loaded personnel...these teams generally have a good front office.

So what you get is a coach having to coach a team with less talent, that isn't used to having the scouting demands on them.

I 100% understand that great players make up great teams. I mean, they're the ones who plays the actual games.

I just don't see how anyone should expect Marvin to coach anyone up or make anyone appreciably better. He has never done that before. NEVER. Even the Steelers LBs he had under him were awesome when he was there. A lot of his former players are all timers from both the Steelers and the Ravens. At this point, it's obvious that THEY are not a product of Marvin, but vice versa: HE is a product of THEM. After seeing him coach the Bengals for 15 seasons, it should be incredibly clear that Marvin is a product of being elevated by the talent around him, rather than being any sort of significant elevator of talent or great coach of it himself.

To the point of scouting, etc. I actually believe the opposite is true. Bengals staff and coaches from other teams have touched on this in interviews over the years. Coaches usually LOVE to have input on who's on their roster. A lot of coaches have sought GM & Head Coaching duties just to be able to have that kind of input. So, for the Bengals coaches to be afforded as much say and input/active role in the process, it's THAT much more damming to me that they haven't performed on the field. The bengals coaches have a ton of influence and say over who they draft and sign. A TON! That's a good thing, IMO, and a lot of coaches would love that environment.

[sandwedge]

(11-08-2017, 11:44 PM)nickndfl Wrote: Marvin is hanging onto the job like an establishment congressman. Problem is Marvin needs term limits and Mikey B. doesn't want to Make the Bengals Great Again.

I think the next logical move if any, would be to move Marvin to GM. That would make sense in Cincinnati.

No, I wouldn't want Lewis as a GM. He is terrible at making decisions and he would have a huge say in how to run things. 

[THE PISTONS]

People know that Ced is bad...but according to PFF...Ced and Vigil have basically identical season ratings.

[nickndfl]

For some reason Marv is not mentioned in the following article for Coach of the Year?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000870749/article/2017-nfl-midseason-predictions-mvp-rookie-of-the-year-more

[McC]

(11-09-2017, 12:13 PM)PDub80 Wrote: MARVIN'S MYTH


Marvin Lewis started with the Baltimore Ravens as a Defensive Coordinator in 1996. Here are the Baltimore Ravens defensive rankings in points allowed under Marvin and then the DC’s following him so that we can see if the coaching changes mattered (SPOILER ALERT #1: They didn’t). They changed from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4 and I will note that so we can see the change and if there was any effect (SPOILER ALERT #2: There isn’t). I will also add in significant player notes so we can see when his roster was elevated with not just good or great players, but also all-timers and Hall of Famers and then see if there were any changes to show Marvin’s “coaching ability” getting better (SPOILER ALERT #3: There were).

- Please note, we can get into all sorts of defensive rankings of other stats like yards, passing, against the run, etc. if you wish, but for this post I’m just going to show this 1 key stat and if people don’t get the point or need this spoon fed to them to the N'th degree, I’ll do so. I’m hoping that we’re all smart enough to see what’s important here.
Below is the Ravens DC/year: Points against ranking of their defense (player notes)

MARVIN/1996: 28/30 (Ray Lewis ROOKIE)

MARVIN/1997: 18/30 (ADDED Siragusa, Jamie Sharper, Michael McCrary, Boulware ROOKIE, Ray Lewis 2nd year – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1998: 16/30 (ADDED Rod Woodson, Duane Starks, Boulware 2nd year – Pro Bowl, Lewis – Pro Bowl, McCrary – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1999: 6/31 (ADDED: Chris McAlister)

MARVIN/2000: 1/31 (ADDED: Sam Adams, Adalius Thomas)

MARVIN/2001: 4/31 (No NOTABLE ADDITIONS, Thomas 2nd year, Kelly Gregg)


2002 BIG CHANGES…. MARVIN LEAVES FOR THE REDSKINS. RAVENS PROMOTE MIKE NOLAN TO DC. MIKE NOLAN SWITCHES AWAY FROM MARVIN’S DEFENSE FROM A 4-3 TO A 3-4. THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO CHANGES IN THE RAVENS PERFORMANCE ON D...


PLEASE NOTE: Mike Nolan was the Ravens WR coach at the time and had NOTHING to do with Marvin or this BS “Marvin coaching tree” theory. So, don’t go there. Previous to being the Ravens WR coach for 1 season, Nolan was the DC for the Giants, Redskins, and NY Jets. Again, NOTHING to do with Marvin or any sort of tutelage from him.

MIKE NOLAN (promoted from WRs coach)/2002: 19/32 (LOST: RAY LEWIS TO INJURY: PLAYED 5 Games, ADDED: Ed Reed – ROOKIE, Bart Scott - ROOKIE)

For Funsies- MARVIN (REDSKINS DC)/2002: 21/32 (Previous season the Redskins were ranked 13/31 SO, MARVIN REALLY BROUGHT THE THUNDER HERE AND MADE A DIFFERENECE… Psssshhhh)

MIKE NOLAN/2003: 6/32 (ADDED: Ray Lewis full 16 game season)

MIKE NOLAN/2004: 6/32 (ADDED: Terrell Suggs – Pro Bowl, Deon Sanders who played 9 games with 2 starts)

2005 BIG CHANGES. REX RYAN PROMOTED TO DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. RAVENS SWITCH TO A 4-3. Rex Ryan was the D-line coach under Marvin for 3 seasons AND the D-line coach under Mike Nolan for 3 seasons. NOT enough evidence to show an influence from Marvin OR Mike Nolan to point one way or the other.

REX RYAN/2005: 10/32 (No notable additions)

REX RYAN/2006: 1/32 (ADDED: Dewan Landry, Samari Rolle, Haloti Ngata – Rookie)

REX RYAN switched back to a 3-4/2007: 22/32 (ADDED Nothing Notable)

REX RYAN/2008: 2/32 (ADDED: Fabian Washington)

2009: Changed DC to Greg Mattison: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM IN HIS CAREER

GREG MATTISON/2009: 3/32 (ADDED: Domonique Foxworth, Chris Carr)

GREG MATTISON/2010: 3/32 (ADDED: Cory Redding, LOST Ed Reed for 6 games)

2011: Changed DC to Chuck Pagano: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM.

CHUCK PAGANO/2011: 3/32 (ADDED: Nothing of note)

No reason to keep going at this point, right? I think we’re, what, 4 coaches removed from Marvin and the Ravens have switched schemes and stayed incredibly good on defense. I have shown that there was little to no connection from Marvin to them doing so. I showed where Marvin had received a MASSIVE influx of talent in both young players and veterans still in their prime when he achieved his peak defensive notable achievements. Marvin had several hall of famers and long time NFL greats as well as the guys after him. But, just for fun….

DEEN PEES/2013, 14, 15, 16: 12/32 (Ray Lewis LOST for 10 games), 6/32, 24/32, 9/32

So, please… Tell me again how Marvin Lewis was some incredible defensive coach. He’s a non-factor and beneficiary of UNBELIEVABLE talent. Talent who continued to get better and dominate for long periods of time, through multiple coaches and schemes well after he had left. Meanwhile, the team he went to, the Redskins significantly REGRESSED on defense under Marvin, and the Cincinnati Bengals defense stunk until Mike Zimmer came along (again… NOTHING to do with the Marvin coaching tree). To say that Marvin coached a certain way, blah, blah, blah is just conjecture that means nothing. The results are what they are regardless of how we think/imagine/dream/play make believe Marvin influenced games 20+ years ago. He didn't. He doesn't.

Moral of the story kids... Do your homework before coming to a conclusion and making a thread. I swear, man. it's like some of you have no idea how to actually use the internet to do research and come out with an informed conclusion.

Nice book.  If I'm ever stranded on a desert island somewhere, maybe I'll read it.  I stand corrected in the face of the awesomeness that is you.  And you still missed the whole point of the thread, which was that Marvin is a shadow of the coach he was.  Sorry you hate Marvin so much that it blinds you.

Oh yeah, and take your lecture and shove it up your ass. If your intent was to be ***** insulting, well ***** done. Go on and be a *****. Who cares?

And I'll make a thread any time I want. If you don't like it, don't read. Or read it and be an insulting little *****. Who the **** died and made you king? Who do you think you are? I will never say another ***** word to you, pal.

[PDub80]

(11-09-2017, 08:55 PM)McC Wrote: Nice book.  If I'm ever stranded on a desert island somewhere, maybe I'll read it.  I stand corrected in the face of the awesomeness that is you.  And you still missed the whole point of the thread, which was that Marvin is a shadow of the coach he was.  Sorry you hate Marvin so much that it blinds you.

Oh yeah, and take your lecture and shove it up your ass.  If your intent was to be ***** insulting, well ***** done.  Go on and be a *****.  Who cares?

And I'll make a thread any time I want. If you don't like it, don't read.  Or read it and be an insulting little *****. Who the **** died and made you king?  Who do you think you are?  I will never say another ***** word to you, pal.

^ This didn't make my day, but it was the sprinkles on top of it.

I'll keep this short because, clearly, that's how you prefer things.

You're welcome for the history lesson. Of course, feel free to make more threads.

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-09-2017, 12:13 PM)PDub80 Wrote: MARVIN'S MYTH


Marvin Lewis started with the Baltimore Ravens as a Defensive Coordinator in 1996. Here are the Baltimore Ravens defensive rankings in points allowed under Marvin and then the DC’s following him so that we can see if the coaching changes mattered (SPOILER ALERT #1: They didn’t). They changed from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4 and I will note that so we can see the change and if there was any effect (SPOILER ALERT #2: There isn’t). I will also add in significant player notes so we can see when his roster was elevated with not just good or great players, but also all-timers and Hall of Famers and then see if there were any changes to show Marvin’s “coaching ability” getting better (SPOILER ALERT #3: There were).

- Please note, we can get into all sorts of defensive rankings of other stats like yards, passing, against the run, etc. if you wish, but for this post I’m just going to show this 1 key stat and if people don’t get the point or need this spoon fed to them to the N'th degree, I’ll do so. I’m hoping that we’re all smart enough to see what’s important here.
Below is the Ravens DC/year: Points against ranking of their defense (player notes)

MARVIN/1996: 28/30 (Ray Lewis ROOKIE)

MARVIN/1997: 18/30 (ADDED Siragusa, Jamie Sharper, Michael McCrary, Boulware ROOKIE, Ray Lewis 2nd year – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1998: 16/30 (ADDED Rod Woodson, Duane Starks, Boulware 2nd year – Pro Bowl, Lewis – Pro Bowl, McCrary – Pro Bowl)

MARVIN/1999: 6/31 (ADDED: Chris McAlister)

MARVIN/2000: 1/31 (ADDED: Sam Adams, Adalius Thomas)

MARVIN/2001: 4/31 (No NOTABLE ADDITIONS, Thomas 2nd year, Kelly Gregg)


2002 BIG CHANGES…. MARVIN LEAVES FOR THE REDSKINS. RAVENS PROMOTE MIKE NOLAN TO DC. MIKE NOLAN SWITCHES AWAY FROM MARVIN’S DEFENSE FROM A 4-3 TO A 3-4. THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO CHANGES IN THE RAVENS PERFORMANCE ON D...


PLEASE NOTE: Mike Nolan was the Ravens WR coach at the time and had NOTHING to do with Marvin or this BS “Marvin coaching tree” theory. So, don’t go there. Previous to being the Ravens WR coach for 1 season, Nolan was the DC for the Giants, Redskins, and NY Jets. Again, NOTHING to do with Marvin or any sort of tutelage from him.

MIKE NOLAN (promoted from WRs coach)/2002: 19/32 (LOST: RAY LEWIS TO INJURY: PLAYED 5 Games, ADDED: Ed Reed – ROOKIE, Bart Scott - ROOKIE)

For Funsies- MARVIN (REDSKINS DC)/2002: 21/32 (Previous season the Redskins were ranked 13/31 SO, MARVIN REALLY BROUGHT THE THUNDER HERE AND MADE A DIFFERENECE… Psssshhhh)

MIKE NOLAN/2003: 6/32 (ADDED: Ray Lewis full 16 game season)

MIKE NOLAN/2004: 6/32 (ADDED: Terrell Suggs – Pro Bowl, Deon Sanders who played 9 games with 2 starts)

2005 BIG CHANGES. REX RYAN PROMOTED TO DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. RAVENS SWITCH TO A 4-3. Rex Ryan was the D-line coach under Marvin for 3 seasons AND the D-line coach under Mike Nolan for 3 seasons. NOT enough evidence to show an influence from Marvin OR Mike Nolan to point one way or the other.

REX RYAN/2005: 10/32 (No notable additions)

REX RYAN/2006: 1/32 (ADDED: Dewan Landry, Samari Rolle, Haloti Ngata – Rookie)

REX RYAN switched back to a 3-4/2007: 22/32 (ADDED Nothing Notable)

REX RYAN/2008: 2/32 (ADDED: Fabian Washington)

2009: Changed DC to Greg Mattison: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM IN HIS CAREER

GREG MATTISON/2009: 3/32 (ADDED: Domonique Foxworth, Chris Carr)

GREG MATTISON/2010: 3/32 (ADDED: Cory Redding, LOST Ed Reed for 6 games)

2011: Changed DC to Chuck Pagano: NOTHING TO DO WITH MARVIN. NEVER WORKED WITH HIM.

CHUCK PAGANO/2011: 3/32 (ADDED: Nothing of note)

No reason to keep going at this point, right? I think we’re, what, 4 coaches removed from Marvin and the Ravens have switched schemes and stayed incredibly good on defense. I have shown that there was little to no connection from Marvin to them doing so. I showed where Marvin had received a MASSIVE influx of talent in both young players and veterans still in their prime when he achieved his peak defensive notable achievements. Marvin had several hall of famers and long time NFL greats as well as the guys after him. But, just for fun….

DEEN PEES/2013, 14, 15, 16: 12/32 (Ray Lewis LOST for 10 games), 6/32, 24/32, 9/32

So, please… Tell me again how Marvin Lewis was some incredible defensive coach. He’s a non-factor and beneficiary of UNBELIEVABLE talent. Talent who continued to get better and dominate for long periods of time, through multiple coaches and schemes well after he had left. Meanwhile, the team he went to, the Redskins significantly REGRESSED on defense under Marvin, and the Cincinnati Bengals defense stunk until Mike Zimmer came along (again… NOTHING to do with the Marvin coaching tree). To say that Marvin coached a certain way, blah, blah, blah is just conjecture that means nothing. The results are what they are regardless of how we think/imagine/dream/play make believe Marvin influenced games 20+ years ago. He didn't. He doesn't.

Moral of the story kids... Do your homework before coming to a conclusion and making a thread. I swear, man. it's like some of you have no idea how to actually use the internet to do research and come out with an informed conclusion.

Holy shit this is good,and makes a lot of since,even though I don't understand the ranking numbers but I get the point.

[Daddy-O]

(11-08-2017, 11:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The mediocre oozes from every pore, every crack, every crevice of this organization. It invades every person, player, coach, reporter, literally everyone who has anything to do with this team. It engulfs and overtakes everything before it. It permeates into everything and it emanates from Mike Brown.

Under Mike Brown everyone and everything learns to settle, to settle for being average, to settle for mediocre. There is no striving to be great, striving to win, stopping at nothing to be the best.

Mike has never tried to build a winning culture, never coveted the Lombardi, never said we'll do it or die. Mike has never sold the brand, never pushed his team.

The first few seasons I'm sure Marvin had heart, desire, wanted to win. It's been beaten out of him just like it is for the lot.

In short Marvin has become bungalized ! Just like everyone who comes here is.

Well said.  Mike Brown eventually just beats down the individual.  Not physically but mentally.  And you're correct, it permeates through the whole organization, including the players.

He's like Schleprock.

[PDub80]

(11-10-2017, 06:38 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Holy shit this is good,and makes a lot of since,even though I don't understand the ranking numbers but I get the point.

Hey, thanks! It took about an hour to look that stuff up type it up, so I appreciate you reading it.


The ranking numbers like this, for example: MARVIN/1999: 6/31 = RAVENS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR/Year: DEFENSIVE POINTS AGAINST LEAGUE RANKING

So, the above example would mean that in Marvin Lewis was the Ravens Defensive Coordinator in 1999 and his Defense ranked 6th in points against out of 31 teams. So, he basically had the 6th BEST defense that year.

I showed the history of the Ravens D under Marvin and the several coaches after as well as if they changed schemes away from Marvin, or even if Marvin had any influence over them at some point in his career (HE ABSOLUTELY DID NOT). The OP mistakenly thinks that the Ravens defensive dominance was due to Marvin being there and "the way he used to coach" - whatever that means??? - and then said that Marvin's fingerprints on that D was the reason they had been so dominant all of these years. TOTALLY FALSE as shown by the evidence and history laid out in my post.

IMO, Marvin Lewis and a slew of other DCs should send Ray Lewis a huge check after they retire from coaching.

[XenoMorph]

(11-08-2017, 11:52 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Making money is more important to Mike Brown than winning.  He gave Marvin enough tools and resources to accomplish the former, and not enough for the latter.

then why hasn't he sold the naming rights to the stadium...


Winning teams also generate more revenue.

[*Go Cards*]

Mike Brown is what happened.

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-10-2017, 12:27 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Hey, thanks! It took about an hour to look that stuff up type it up, so I appreciate you reading it.


The ranking numbers like this, for example: MARVIN/1999: 6/31 = RAVENS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR/Year: DEFENSIVE POINTS AGAINST LEAGUE RANKING

So, the above example would mean that in Marvin Lewis was the Ravens Defensive Coordinator in 1999 and his Defense ranked 6th in points against out of 31 teams. So, he basically had the 6th BEST defense that year.

I showed the history of the Ravens D under Marvin and the several coaches after as well as if they changed schemes away from Marvin, or even if Marvin had any influence over them at some point in his career (HE ABSOLUTELY DID NOT). The OP mistakenly thinks that the Ravens defensive dominance was due to Marvin being there and "the way he used to coach" - whatever that means??? - and then said that Marvin's fingerprints on that D was the reason they had been so dominant all of these years. TOTALLY FALSE as shown by the evidence and history laid out in my post.

IMO, Marvin Lewis and a slew of other DCs should send Ray Lewis a huge check after they retire from coaching.

Yeah I caught the ranking after I sent that,actually I'm going to put this in my Bengals group because I think it's worth showing . My feeling is he was the wrong hire we just got hyped because it was a coach that made us revalent. But his first ever pick was a elite qb.

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-10-2017, 12:27 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Hey, thanks! It took about an hour to look that stuff up type it up, so I appreciate you reading it.


The ranking numbers like this, for example: MARVIN/1999: 6/31 = RAVENS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR/Year: DEFENSIVE POINTS AGAINST LEAGUE RANKING

So, the above example would mean that in Marvin Lewis was the Ravens Defensive Coordinator in 1999 and his Defense ranked 6th in points against out of 31 teams. So, he basically had the 6th BEST defense that year.

I showed the history of the Ravens D under Marvin and the several coaches after as well as if they changed schemes away from Marvin, or even if Marvin had any influence over them at some point in his career (HE ABSOLUTELY DID NOT). The OP mistakenly thinks that the Ravens defensive dominance was due to Marvin being there and "the way he used to coach" - whatever that means??? - and then said that Marvin's fingerprints on that D was the reason they had been so dominant all of these years. TOTALLY FALSE as shown by the evidence and history laid out in my post.

IMO, Marvin Lewis and a slew of other DCs should send Ray Lewis a huge check after they retire from coaching.

Yeah I caught the ranking after I sent that,actually I'm going to put this in my Bengals group because I think it's worth showing . My feeling is he was the wrong hire we just got hyped because it was a coach that made us revalent. But his first ever pick was a elite qb.

[jfkbengals]

(11-09-2017, 03:08 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: That's a damn good question to ask. Because we all expected the defense guru that was Marvin Lewis to build that type of defense here in the beginning and it actually went opposite, I just watched the Bengals vs Steelers game the one we clinched the division in 2005 , it was a awesome thing to watch because Steelers scored 1st easily but our offense said no big deal came out and scored back. Pittsburgh drives again scores easily. Our offense said no big deal scores again. Then Pitt turned it over and our offense says thanks,and scores again.  Marvin was offensively aggressive more back then or was he,was it really brat and Carson being a top qb. The offense was elite. O line was great. But Marvin showed the same mannerisms on the sideline ,just younger . We didn't get a real good defense till Zimmer came ,and Andy Dalton had the luxury of a good defense. I wasn't a football fan to watch Marvin in Baltimore but I have heard there was other good coaches on that team and the defense had great players.

That wasn't by lack of trying.  Pollack's neck and Thurman's nose had a lost to do with that.  He came in and did a great job of grabbing veteran defenders who could teach the principles to the young guys of the future, but two of the key ones were quickly lost.

[Beaker]

(11-08-2017, 10:40 PM)McC Wrote: He came at you from everywhere, non-stop.  He attacked you from beginning to end.  He beat you to a bloody pulp.  Yes, he had great players.  But I'm talking about the way he coached.  Bend but not break?  Are you kidding me?  He would bend and then break you.  There were seasons when I worried if the Bengals would even score on them.  In either game.

What the **** happened?  How did we get from there to here?  What broke in that guy that turned him into this guy?

He didn't have the responsibility of ahead coach. The buck didn't stop with him so he could afford to take more risks. As a head coach, you have to worry about taking responsibility for every loss and explaining in you Monday press conference why to took the risks you did. A DC doesn't have to worry about that.