Back to the Future

[*bfine32*]

It was 1991 and the Bengals were coming off another season in which they had failed to make the playoffs. Their 30-year-old QB was coming off his second subpar season and ownership was looking for a change. Despite pleas from their former MVP signal caller to draft for defense or help along the oline; ownership spent the number 6 overall pick in the 1992 NFL draft on a replacement for their aging QB. The Bengal’s selection at QB never started a full season for the Bengals and was out of the NFL entirely after appearing in only 33 games.  The very next pick in the draft was 5-time Pro Bowl/ 3-time All Pro CB Troy Vincent. The following pick was Pro Bowl LT Bob Whitfield who played 220 games in the NFL. The Bengals traded their proven signal caller in after the 92 season and they did not see the playoffs again until 2005 and still have not won a playoff game to date.

It is now 2017 and the Bengals are in the midst of a second straight disappointing season. Our 30-year-old QB is in the middle of his second sub-par season and many are calling for a change at QB. The Bengals appear to be in position to draft one of the top QB prospects in the 2018 draft; however, it would come at the expense of the top olinemen or needed help at DB in the draft.

My position on Andy Dalton has been clear. His poor play is his fault, he doesn't hold his players accountable, and he needs everything around him to click; but when all those things happen he is a borderline Top 10 QB in the NFL. He is still under a team-friendly contract, surrounded by talent at the skill positions, and has a fine defense that is a couple picks away from being elite.

So who wants to go QB early in 2018?

[treee]

(11-11-2017, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So who wants to go QB early in 2018?

This question could also be read as "Who wants to take a page out of the Cleveland Browns book"?

No thanks.

Oline, Safety, LB for me.

[SunsetBengal]

Pass on QB. The OL needs to be stabilized before throwing a fresh young prospect out there to get his confidence destroyed.

[*Synric*]

I remember on the NFL Network they had a GM talking about team building. He said thr first think you have to ask is not "Do you have a QB?" it's "Do you have a Left Tackle?".

As of right now the Bengals answer to that is a hard no.

[Pat5775]

If we get a new head coach, I think it's very likely we take one of the many potentially great QB's with our first pick. Many believe this could be one of the best QB classes since '83. Granted, the draft is a crap shoot and nothing is guaranteed but I'm not entirely against taking a QB if we're picking top 5. The Oline can and should be addressed via free agency and the following rounds in the draft.

I've said for years that I'd love to see what Andy could do with a different head coach, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if this laughable Oline has ruined him. I think it's a real possibility he's been David Carr'd, and he'll likely never play like his 2015 self again. Plus, this is the bengals. We do things differently in Cincinnati. An elite franchise QB can save a struggling franchise and make just about any team a legitimate super bowl contender (see: Peyton manning with Indianapolis). But of course, without improving this Oline Joe Montana would be lucky to win 8 games here

[*bfine32*]

(11-11-2017, 12:14 PM)treee Wrote: This question could also be read as "Who wants to take a page out of the Cleveland Browns book"?

(11-11-2017, 12:21 PM)Synric Wrote: I remember on the NFL Network they had a GM talking about team building. He said thr first think you have to ask is not "Do you have a QB?" it's "Do you have a Left Tackle?".

As of right now the Bengals answer to that is a hard no.

Well these 2 posts kind of contradict each other. Personally I thing Ced has a chance of becoming a serviceable LT it's just we leave him on an island and he's not ready for that yet. Line up strong to his side some of give him a RB to help out. Just as a young QB's confidence can be destroyed so can a young LTs and his would definately be destroyed if he spent any time in here and applied merit to comments provided. Now RG, C, and (depending on Jake's prognosis) RT can be a hard no. 

[*bengalfan74*]

Long answer:

They MUST be extremely active and aggressive at fixing the o-line first ! I'm of the opinion that they're going to have to go out and PAY and I mean really pay for at least 2 FA O-linemen to have any chance at seeing success with our core of good players, including Dalton.

Then they're going to have to draft a lineman very high, probably first round and another in the third ?

So much can happen between now and then, it's really hard to say how things will play out ? Meaning I wouldn't be opposed to taking a QB some where in the first few rounds if they can trade or work their way into another pick ? McCarron is most likely gonna be saying goodbye and ya never know who may fall for this reason or that.

Short answer - no, fix the O-line first

[jfkbengals]

(11-11-2017, 12:21 PM)Synric Wrote: I remember on the NFL Network they had a GM talking about team building. He said thr first think you have to ask is not "Do you have a QB?" it's "Do you have a Left Tackle?".

As of right now the Bengals answer to that is a hard no.

Bill Parcells took that approach with the Dolphins.  He got a solid LT for several years, but never could land a franchise QB.

[Tiger Teeth]

(11-11-2017, 12:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Long answer:

They MUST be extremely active and aggressive at fixing the o-line first ! I'm of the opinion that they're going to have to go out and PAY and I mean really pay for at least 2 FA O-linemen to have any chance at seeing success with our core of good players, including Dalton.

Then they're going to have to draft a lineman very high, probably first round and another in the third ?

So much can happen between now and then, it's really hard to say how things will play out ? Meaning I wouldn't be opposed to taking a QB some where in the first few rounds if they can trade or work their way into another pick ? McCarron is most likely gonna be saying goodbye and ya never know who may fall for this reason or that.

Short answer - no, fix the O-line first

^This.

[spazz70]

If you believe Dalton is the problem then you must eliminate the problem.... Trade Dalton for picks....Draft the top QB available that is not a reach and re-sign AJ Macaroni....And then fix the O-line.... Open competition for QB in training camp..... This would be totally outside the box for the Bengals but AJ with a better OL would not be an extreme drop off from Dalton, IMHO...or maybe the rookie wins the job and you still have a good back up...I do not see AJ getting a huge contract but I could be wrong... The OL should be an easy fix with picks from Dalton trade.

[McC]

What it comes down to is if this is a big enough train wreck for the FO to even consider a change in MO. Because without that, it doesn't matter.

How many years would it take to fix the line strictly in the draft? Too many, probably.

Can Mike ever change his stance on interior linemen or see how lost PA is and realize being a close friend is not what matters most? Can he look at the roster and the staff and reach the hard conclusions? Because that's what really has to happen to turn this thing around before all his best players are gone or too far past their prime. Mike has to point the finger at himself and I can't think of anyone who is gonna hold their breath for that to happen.

We got out of the 90's by Mike going outside his comfort zone. Can he go farther outside it and join the 21st century? Again, don't hold your breath.

[*Synric*]

(11-11-2017, 12:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well these 2 posts kind of contradict each other. Personally I thing Ced has a chance of becoming a serviceable LT it's just we leave him on an island and he's not ready for that yet. Line up strong to his side some of give him a RB to help out. Just as a young QB's confidence can be destroyed so can a young LTs and his would definately be destroyed if he spent any time in here and applied merit to comments provided. Now RG, C, and (depending on Jake's prognosis) RT can be a hard no. 

I really don't see how they contradict the Browns have a Left Tackle they've just made awful choices in QBs. Johnny Manziel over Derek Carr.

Cedric Ogbeuhi doesn't need to read comments on here to destroy his confidence all he has to do is watch tape on Tuesday to do that lol.

But lets entertain your draft a rookie idea.... let's say it's even Sam Darnold. Now they have a s rookie QB, a LT that's been abused for two seasons, question marks at RT, and a free agent Center. Do they resign Bodine? Going into a season with a rookie Center and rookie Quarterback would be a bad idea. 

Now I wouldn't be mad if they took a QB that slips like Rudolph.

[J24]

I have a couple questions? What could we realistically get for Andy? What are we willing to do in free agency and via trade to improve this team? If we're not going to do anything to fix the problems with this team then we might as well go full rebuild.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-11-2017, 12:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well these 2 posts kind of contradict each other. Personally I thing Ced has a chance of becoming a serviceable LT it's just we leave him on an island and he's not ready for that yet. Line up strong to his side some of give him a RB to help out. Just as a young QB's confidence can be destroyed so can a young LTs and his would definately be destroyed if he spent any time in here and applied merit to comments provided. Now RG, C, and (depending on Jake's prognosis) RT can be a hard no. 

To bolded, that would work, if the Bengals only had one piss poor offensive lineman to cover up for.  However, with at least 3 of them being at, or nearly the worst starters in the league, it's going to take a little more than that to make the offense functional.

My thoughts on how to fix the current situation would be to keep Boling and Andre Smith, and flat out cut ties with Ogbuehi, Bodine, and several of the scrubs in waiting.  Oddly enough, should Fisher's heart prove to get healthy enough to play, I still have a glimmer of hope for him.  So, WTS, I would make whatever move it takes to attain the best LT prospect in the draft, attain a Center with enough ass and courage to handle large NTs one on one (weather by draft, free agency, or trade).  I would also want to change the philosophy of the type of offensive linemen that we select.  These "finesse", Swiss Army knife type of guys just aren't panning out;  Go get some damn hard nosed, aggressive, run blocking, mean mofos!  

You can have all the fantastic Tackles in the league, but if your interior OL can't set a tone, establish a pocket, get those critical 3rd or 4th and short yards, you'll never compete in truly big games.

[masonbengals fan]

Have to get help in the trenches

[reuben.ahmed]

1 point 21 Gigawattz

[wcu]

I’ve already greatly reduced my level of consumption of all things Bengals related. If we don’t seriously and aggressively address the offensive line this offseason, I doubt I’ll even watch the games next year. This has been as poorly managed as one could imagine. If MB and management don’t give enough of a shit to make the tough choices, then why should I waste my time/energy/money on their piss poor product?

I’m almost always a Bengals optimist. If they’re losing me, they’re in trouble. Surely they sense that a mutiny/mass desertion is afoot.

[Shake n Blake]

We've got to stop throwing away seasons (and wasting the primes of Bengals greats) hoping 3-4 awful linemen suddenly have a massive turnaround. Og was so awful in year one that it gave me little hope for a turnaround. I guess if you're feeling generous he looks a pinch better this year?

Not good enough to justify gambling another season on him at LT. If the guy needs to basically be hidden or protected in year 4, we have no LT. Bodine, Fisher, Hopkins and Andre are all terrible as well. We need to start from scratch with a new position coach.

[*Synric*]

(11-11-2017, 09:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We've got to stop throwing away seasons (and wasting the primes of Bengals greats) hoping 3-4 awful linemen suddenly have a massive turnaround. Og was so awful in year one that it gave me little hope for a turnaround. I guess if you're feeling generous he looks a pinch better this year?

Not good enough to justify gambling another season on him at LT. If the guy needs to basically be hidden or protected in year 4, we have no LT. Bodine, Fisher, Hopkins and Andre are all terrible as well. We need to start from scratch with a new position coach.

I'd like to see them offer Russ Grimm the OC job. He has good eye for offensive line talent...but I'd like to see them match Grimm with and offensively minded HC like Todd Haley. 

[SunsetBengal]

(11-11-2017, 09:05 PM)Synric Wrote: I'd like to see them offer Russ Grimm the OC job. He has good eye for offensive line talent...but I'd like to see them match Grimm with and offensively minded HC like Todd Haley. 

That is an interesting combo, one that I haven't seen mentioned around here previously.  Grimm is definitely Old School enough to know what real offensive linemen need to do the job (anchored the famous "hogs"), and Haley seems modern and innovative enough to take the franchise forward.  However, this all has to key upon Mike Brown retiring and ceding complete power to people that understand football better than an old, Dartmouth QB.

Now, on the surface, an Ivy League QB as a GM might sound like a "cant miss" situation.  However, you also have to account that he also went on to graduate from Harvard Law.  There lies the disconnect...