People talk about firing Marvin...but I don't think Marvin wants to come back

[THE PISTONS]

(12-11-2017, 02:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't believe for one second that Marv is burned out. People were saying similar crap in 2010. Marv will happily accept contracts as long as Mike offers them.

The fact that he's thrown so many players under the bus this year is just more proof on how much Marv values his job. If he's "tired" of anything, he's tired of not having that extension that he publicly lobbied for back in January. People claiming he looks burned out are just guilty of wishful thinking.

Do you really think there's a chance he comes back?

I'd put those odds as like 1%.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Off the record Carson would probably say Marvin is the worst coach he ever played for. I'm sure defensive players love him he would make an excellent defensive coordinator somewhere. but as a head head coach he has been abysmal. You give a mediocre coach like Rex Ryan the same rosters I guarantee he would have won at least 1 playoff game.

[XenoMorph]

(12-11-2017, 02:17 PM)bambino5130 Wrote: Great points, and I agree. I am not sure the Bengals will win anything until they actually start operating like a 21st century NFL organization.......... and I am not holding my breathe for that.

Things like a General Manager, scouts, staffing, free agency are indeed things that teams have that have won a playoff game in the last 26 years.

Remind me how much revenue is made by the Paul Brown Stadium naming rights again?

yeah but plenty of teams of GMs and keep firing them cause they do horrible.. (the GM and the TEAM)

Plenty of teams have more scouts and worse records

Free agency is a tool to use...  Most teams make big signings to just put butts in seats cause they are not competitive.

So while teams use those and have gotten wins.. Teams use those and go 0-16 too...  ^^^^ just look north

[masonbengals fan]

I hope he does....

[Bengalfan4life27c]

If we are hell bent on promoting in house Darrin Simmons would be my choice if those are my only options

[falsestart]

Some teams are quick to fire and quick to hire. Some teams hold onto something for so long cause it feels like a homey family like environment. I'm sure somewhere in between lies success!

[*Nately120*]

(12-11-2017, 02:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: I don't see how he's made it this long.

I can think of 4.5 million reasons Marvin Lewis made it through the year.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Since 1999 the de facto GM of the Bengals is Duke Tobin. The actual title is irrelevant it is an angle shoot for Mike Brown to pocket more money. And he has given Marvin countless good rosters to win with. In spite of Marvin's ineptitude. He has kept this team competitive. Hopefully Mike would let him hire the Bengals next head coach

[*Go Cards*]

Would want to leave the brutal verbal assaults from fans as well.

Hard for me to sit and listen to it even though I agree with what is being said. Got to be tough on him.

Have not seen him giggle as much lately.

Believe the writing is on the wall and he will retire in lieu of being fired. Which he has earned that right.

PA is the one who needs to be fired.

[*Nately120*]

(12-11-2017, 02:58 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Since 1999 the de facto GM of the Bengals is Duke Tobin. The actual title is irrelevant it is an angle shoot for Mike Brown to pocket more money. And he has given Marvin countless good rosters to win with. In spite of Marvin's ineptitude. He has kept this team competitive. Hopefully Mike would let him hire the Bengals next head coach

I'm not sure it's irrelevant that our owner refuses to give our "GM" the title of GM because Mike wants to keep the title of GM and make more money.  Nothing against Tobin, but I'd wager that little stipulation probably keeps the better GMs from wanting to come here.

I'm trying to put myself in that sort of position.  Imagine applying for a job and the boss tells you that you'll have the duties and responsibility of job X, but you'll get the title and salary of a lower position and he will keep the salary and the title for himself.  Ouch, he who has the gold makes the rules, I guess.

Anyways, stuff like that is bound to limit the pool of candidates right?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-11-2017, 02:58 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Since 1999 the de facto GM of the Bengals is Duke Tobin. The actual title is irrelevant it is an angle shoot for Mike Brown to pocket more money. And he has given Marvin countless good rosters to win with. In spite of Marvin's ineptitude. He has kept this team competitive. Hopefully Mike would let him hire the Bengals next head coach

Bengals GM Mike Brown has Higher Salary than Steelers Owner Dan Rooney (From 2009) - 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/215649-bengals-gm-mike-brown-has-higher-salary-than-steelers-dan-rooney

[Shake n Blake]

(12-11-2017, 02:32 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Eh... Marv has shown he is a pretty good coach when the pressure is off, but a clueless nitwit when the lights go on. 

However, I don't know about a super bowl but I do believe Ben Roethlisberger would have won Marv at least a few playoff games. Hey, Peyton manning won a ring with Tony freaking Dungy so I guess it's possible. I believe an elite QB can make any subpar head coach look good (kinda like Ben is doing for Tomlin right now). 

Let's be real, aside from 2005 Carson Palmer Marv has never had an elite QB to mask his deficiencies. 

I have to disagree. I think Carson Palmer on those Steelers teams wins a lot more games than Ben ever would with those Marvin coached Bengals teams. Ben wasn't exactly the reason the Steelers were winning those championships. He took a backseat to the run game and defense. 

Over Ben's first 7 years (when his team made 3 SB runs), Ben averaged a measly 28.6 attempts/game. For comparison, Doug Marrone said he wanted Blake Bortles to pass as seldom as possible this year, and he's still averaging 31.5 attempts, which is considered low.

Over the last 7 years, the Steelers have leaned much more heavily on Ben's arm. He's averaged a whopping 37.1 attempts. The team is 3-4 in the playoffs (should be 2-5, but Bungles). 

To wrap this up, Ben has always been a turnover machine in the playoffs (23 INTs in 20 games) and the Steelers were better when they minimized his attempts and hid him behind a great run game and defense. Since they've had to rely on his arm, the playoff success has quickly evaporated. An INT prone QB mixed with Marvin Lewis in the playoffs = no wins. Ben would be even worse in Cincinnati.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-11-2017, 02:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Do you really think there's a chance he comes back?

I'd put those odds as like 1%.

If Mike wants him back, I think the odds are 99%.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-11-2017, 03:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I have to disagree. I think Carson Palmer on those Steelers teams wins a lot more games than Ben ever would with those Marvin coached Bengals teams. Ben wasn't exactly the reason the Steelers were winning those championships. He took a backseat to the run game and defense. 

Over Ben's first 7 years (when his team made 3 SB runs), Ben averaged a measly 28.6 attempts/game. For comparison, Doug Marrone said he wanted Blake Bortles to pass as seldom as possible this year, and he's still averaging 31.5 attempts, which is considered low.

Over the last 7 years, the Steelers have leaned much more heavily on Ben's arm. He's averaged a whopping 37.1 attempts. The team is 3-4 in the playoffs (should be 2-5, but Bungles). 

To wrap this up, Ben has always been a turnover machine in the playoffs (23 INTs in 20 games) and the Steelers were better when they minimized his attempts and hid him behind a great run game and defense. Since they've had to rely on his arm, the playoff success has quickly evaporated. An INT prone QB mixed with Marvin Lewis in the playoffs = no wins. Ben would be even worse in Cincinnati.

Plus, the Steelers offensive line was bad at pass blocking. I will say that Roethlisberger did good behind a bad line.

[*Nately120*]

(12-11-2017, 03:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I have to disagree. I think Carson Palmer on those Steelers teams wins a lot more games than Ben ever would with those Marvin coached Bengals teams. Ben wasn't exactly the reason the Steelers were winning those championships. He took a backseat to the run game and defense. 

I think I pointed this out before, but I've been a Bears and Bengals fan since 87 and going into the 2003 draft I was almost certain the Bears were going to trade up to get Carson Palmer and put him on a team that made the playoffs with Jim Miller, and would eventually make the SB with Rex Grossman.  Still, the Bears were the only team in the top 5 I think that really needed a QB and they didn't need one as badly as the Bengals did, so I wasn't surprised/disappointed when the Bengals just took Palmer themselves. They probably would have ended up with Leftwich or Grossman if they hadn't taken Palmer. Ooof.


Ok story time over.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-11-2017, 03:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Plus, the Steelers offensive line was bad at pass blocking. I will say that Roethlisberger did good behind a bad line.

Meh. I don't think the Steelers were bad at pass blocking so much as Ben liked to hang around trying to make plays, which led to more big plays, but also more sacks.

Remember the "unscripted plays" year with Dalton? When Marv and Jay were pushing Andy to be more like Ben? Dalton was sacked a career high 46 times that year. 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-11-2017, 03:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. I don't think the Steelers were bad at pass blocking so much as Ben liked to hang around trying to make plays, which led to more big plays, but also more sacks.

Remember the "unscripted plays" year with Dalton? When Marv and Jay were pushing Andy to be more like Ben? Dalton was sacked a career high 46 times that year. 

That was always the debate in Pittsburgh...if the sacks were on Ben or the line. Personally I think it's a decent tradeoff.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2017, 02:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't believe for one second that Marv is burned out. People were saying similar crap in 2010. Marv will happily accept contracts as long as Mike offers them.

The fact that he's thrown so many players under the bus this year is just more proof on how much Marv values his job. If he's "tired" of anything, he's tired of not having that extension that he publicly lobbied for back in January. People claiming he looks burned out are just guilty of wishful thinking.

Agree,

They're all gonna be shocked when the presser airs and Mike and Marv are sitting there like 2010 all over again.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-11-2017, 04:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

They're all gonna be shocked when the presser airs and Mike and Marv are sitting there like 2010 all over again.

I'm just hoping Mike's legendary patience has finally worn out. It's the 50th anniversary season and the Bengals are now coming off 2 straight embarrassing seasons. Hopefully that's enough to finally get it done.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2017, 04:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm just hoping Mike's legendary patience has finally worn out. It's the 50th anniversary season and the Bengals are now coming off 2 straight embarrassing seasons. Hopefully that's enough to finally get it done.

Oh I'm hoping and praying and crossing fingers that the light has finally come on for Mike !!!!!!

But there's 26 years of stubbornness, loyalty, avoiding change at all costs and screw everybody and modern NFL ways I'm doing it my way evidence that says he'll never change or give in.

And if I had to bet, I'd bet on the evidence. Oh they may tweak a couple coaches well down the ladder, sign a mid level FA, build a pole barn practice bubble, just enough to say look here.

But in the end it will be wash, rinse, repeat.

So hope I'm wrong