With a new coach is window still open for core group?

[Jhowdy54]

Our core group of players is at the part of there careers that decline starts to show in the play on the field. Even with a new coach Im not sure we'll see this group of players winning anything. I think its best to move on. Dalton and Green would fetch multiple first and mid round picks. Atkins and Dunlap your looking at second and third rounders potentially. yes it completely sets us back for 2 years but think its the only way we'll ever win in the near future. We continue to roll with these guys we continue with mediocre 7-9 seasons and these core players grow old and we get nothing in return.

[Rattler]

Nailed and painted shut.

[Bengalbug]

(12-12-2017, 05:49 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Our core group of players is at the part of there careers that decline starts to show in the play on the field. Even with a new coach Im not sure we'll see this group of players winning anything. I think its best to move on. Dalton and Green would fetch multiple first and mid round picks. Atkins and Dunlap your looking at second and third rounders potentially. yes it completely sets us back for 2 years but think its the only way we'll ever win in the near future. We continue to roll with these guys we continue with mediocre 7-9 seasons and these core players grow old and we get nothing in return.

Yes, this team could win next year. New coach(s), a few new OL, draft/FA... this team could be competitive as early as next year

[sandwedge]

I think so. I don't know if I would trade everyone away like the OP suggested or anyone for that matter. The 4 guys you mentioned are still playing at a high level. It's all going to depend on what scheme the new regime brings with them.

[Interceptor]

(12-12-2017, 05:49 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Our core group of players is at the part of there careers that decline starts to show in the play on the field. Even with a new coach Im not sure we'll see this group of players winning anything. I think its best to move on. Dalton and Green would fetch multiple first and mid round picks. Atkins and Dunlap your looking at second and third rounders potentially. yes it completely sets us back for 2 years but think its the only way we'll ever win in the near future. We continue to roll with these guys we continue with mediocre 7-9 seasons and these core players grow old and we get nothing in return.

Clean house and start from square one. 
Do it correctly and start with the line on both sides of the ball and work outwards from there.
Build a sustainable team (a team that will be competitive for years to come), not a need-to-win-right-now team. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-12-2017, 06:04 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I think so. I don't know if I would trade everyone away like the OP suggested or anyone for that matter. The 4 guys you mentioned are still playing at a high level. It's all going to depend on what scheme the new regime brings with them.

Keep this in mind, those 4 players mentioned by the OP?  Yeah, they are the heart and soul of this team.  And, they are all reaching toward the end of their second contracts.  Not one of them is worth any less than they are currently being paid, and it will take larger deals to keep them here on another contract.  So, that window of opportunity might be smaller than it appears at first glance.

[Marlon23]

No way, if Marvin is not back there is not way this team has a shot at 4-12

[BengalChris]

(12-12-2017, 05:49 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Our core group of players is at the part of there careers that decline starts to show in the play on the field. Even with a new coach Im not sure we'll see this group of players winning anything. I think its best to move on. Dalton and Green would fetch multiple first and mid round picks. Atkins and Dunlap your looking at second and third rounders potentially. yes it completely sets us back for 2 years but think its the only way we'll ever win in the near future. We continue to roll with these guys we continue with mediocre 7-9 seasons and these core players grow old and we get nothing in return.

The sad thing is that Mike Brown sent half the core group packing already and replaced them with a bunch of panty-wastes.

It won't be long and we'll start hear that Atkins is past his prime and Mike Brown will give him a low ball offer. The same for Dunlap.

AJ and/or Dalton will become unhappy and asked to traded. Then they'll both be labelled as greedy by front office.

[Sled21]

(12-12-2017, 05:49 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Our core group of players is at the part of there careers that decline starts to show in the play on the field. Even with a new coach Im not sure we'll see this group of players winning anything. I think its best to move on. Dalton and Green would fetch multiple first and mid round picks. Atkins and Dunlap your looking at second and third rounders potentially. yes it completely sets us back for 2 years but think its the only way we'll ever win in the near future. We continue to roll with these guys we continue with mediocre 7-9 seasons and these core players grow old and we get nothing in return.

Why do you think they will draw multiple first and mid round draft picks? Because they are still in their prime, so why would we trade them and start over with unkowns? Makes zero sense. Draft or steal the players in the positions of need, and this team is ready to win without getting rid of the core of this team.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-12-2017, 06:40 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Why do you think they will draw multiple first and mid round draft picks? Because they are still in their prime, so why would we trade them and start over with unkowns? Makes zero sense. Draft or steal the players in the positions of need, and this team is ready to win without getting rid of the core of this team.

Just what i was thinking. Those players the OP mentioned have atleast 2 to 3 more years of elite play in them if they
take care of themselves. With a new coach that can coach up even our worst players we should atleast give these guys
a shot at winning a SB in a year or two. The O-line has improved and with a new Center and an upgrade in an O-line
coach this team is not far off at all.

To throw all these proven players away for unproven players to me is beyond stupid. No offense Jhowdy, just don't
understand this thought process.

[Jpoore]

Just look at what Sean mcvay has done? And with Dunlap we drafted 2 great replacements with Willis and Lawson. Atkins hasn't slowed down at all. An green if Ross develops can take less of the load. Should also draft Sutton or St brown.. with a new coach we would get a playoff win.

[*bengalfan74*]

Absolutely it's still open !

IF and it's a very big if, Mike Brown is willing to do the right things.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-12-2017, 05:49 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Our core group of players is at the part of there careers that decline starts to show in the play on the field. Even with a new coach Im not sure we'll see this group of players winning anything. I think its best to move on. Dalton and Green would fetch multiple first and mid round picks. Atkins and Dunlap your looking at second and third rounders potentially. yes it completely sets us back for 2 years but think its the only way we'll ever win in the near future. We continue to roll with these guys we continue with mediocre 7-9 seasons and these core players grow old and we get nothing in return.

Yeah I really wish we had a new coach 3-4 years ago before free agency ripped the team apart. We had a decent amount of young talent then...but have had several bad drafts since then.

Atkins, Dunlap, and Dennard are free agents after next season. IF 2 of those 3 leave...we're a 3 win team. IF Atkins leaves...our defense is decimated. Atkins is the only player on the team who consistently rates at an Elite level.

[Derrick]

(12-12-2017, 06:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just what i was thinking. Those players the OP mentioned have atleast 2 to 3 more years of elite play in them if they
take care of themselves. With a new coach that can coach up even our worst players we should atleast give these guys
a shot at winning a SB in a year or two. The O-line has improved and with a new Center and an upgrade in an O-line
coach this team is not far off at all.

To throw all these proven players away for unproven players to me is beyond stupid. No offense Jhowdy, just don't understand this thought process.

Mark my ballot. YES to this.

[Jhowdy54]

(12-12-2017, 06:40 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Why do you think they will draw multiple first and mid round draft picks? Because they are still in their prime, so why would we trade them and start over with unkowns? Makes zero sense. Draft or steal the players in the positions of need, and this team is ready to win without getting rid of the core of this team.

You trade them now and get full value in return. They stay to play out there contacts and they walk for little return.  Maybe a 5th that we got for Whit.

[muskiesfan]

We're in a tough spot. First, we're probably replacing the head coach. It still remains to be seen what kind of control, if any, he will be given. If it's business as usual and some of the old coaching staff gets re-signed because Mike Brown, then I wouldn't expect things to drastically improve next year. Second, Mike Brown will still be GM. That means he will still be making the final decisions on who stays and goes, our free agency approach, our draft, and everything else critical to success.

Now, if a new coach is brought in and allowed to pick his staff and his players, moving some or all of these could be possible. I'd like to see Dalton, Green, Atkins, and Dunlap retire as Bengals. A new coach may want different guys and have different schemes that don't play to these guys strengths. If a new guy comes in and wants to rebuild, get what you can and allow those guys to go have a shot with properly ran NFL teams.

That's the point I've reached, especially when it comes to Dalton. He deserves better than Bengals fans. Let him go win some playoff games and and re-write the narrative about him. He deserves that. Being stuck in this shithole with fans who legitimately hope he suffers a career ending injury for a career back up isn't fair to him at all.

[NATI BENGALS]

Big money to kirk. Minter as our big free agent add. Ross and Ogbuehi in the 1st.

Id rather hang on to our good players until the front office gets their heads out of their assses

[THE PISTONS]

(12-12-2017, 11:39 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: We're in a tough spot. First, we're probably replacing the head coach. It still remains to be seen what kind of control, if any, he will be given. If it's business as usual and some of the old coaching staff gets re-signed because Mike Brown, then I wouldn't expect things to drastically improve next year. Second, Mike Brown will still be GM. That means he will still be making the final decisions on who stays and goes, our free agency approach, our draft, and everything else critical to success.

Now, if a new coach is brought in and allowed to pick his staff and his players, moving some or all of these could be possible. I'd like to see Dalton, Green, Atkins, and Dunlap retire as Bengals. A new coach may want different guys and have different schemes that don't play to these guys strengths. If a new guy comes in and wants to rebuild, get what you can and allow those guys to go have a shot with properly ran NFL teams.

That's the point I've reached, especially when it comes to Dalton. He deserves better than Bengals fans. Let him go win some playoff games and and re-write the narrative about him. He deserves that. Being stuck in this shithole with fans who legitimately hope he suffers a career ending injury for a career back up isn't fair to him at all.

Plus, the coaches are a major part of the scouting process. IF we replace the entire staff, we lose all the scouting work the coaching staff did during college football season.

I'd clean house...but you have to admit that it's a big Catch 22.

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-13-2017, 12:12 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Plus, the coaches are a major part of the scouting process. IF we replace the entire staff, we lose all the scouting work the coaching staff did during college football season.

I'd clean house...but you have to admit that it's a big Catch 22.

They say every year how they are just getting around to watching the prospects after the season ends.

The loss there would be negligible.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-12-2017, 11:05 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: You trade them now and get full value in return. They stay to play out there contacts and they walk for little return.  Maybe a 5th that we got for Whit.

The draft is a crapshoot man from the 1st overall pick to the last 7th rounder.

All these players are unproven. Atleast have our good proven players as long as we can.

The new coach will need all the help he can get.