The post you don't want to hear

[treee]

(12-18-2017, 02:41 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Join the club. People here are just flat out homers. All of Andy’s career here they’ve made excuses for the bum. Either it’s his o-line, lack of a good running game, or he doesn’t have a good 2nd or 3rd WR.

I remember one Pro Bowl Andy went to since so many others dropped out, where he looked like absolute garbage. With top WR and no rush.

Watch the guys pocket presence...he just doesn’t step up when the pocket collapses. Seriously watch AJ in today’s game. The rush was getting to him so he stepped up and bought more time. Andy just does not do that like a normal QB does. He freaks out...shifts from side to side...runs in place and turns and dips right into a defender. Any other QB on a losing team that’s had such pathetic numbers in second half’s like Andy would have been benched by now. I never thought I’d say this but Eli Manning got benched for his poor performance before Andy.

There are just some Bengals fans that pride themselves of what they think makes them “better fans” than others and those are the ones who are on these boards still blindly supporting Dalton. You can’t reason with them.

(12-18-2017, 02:49 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: LOL you Andy Apologists realize that there are 7 other QBs who have been sacked more than Andy right? Tom Brady’s been sacked 3 less times. Russel Wilson and Cam Newton sacked only 2 less times. The way you guys talk about Andy’s o-line you’d swear he’s getting sacked every time he drops back.

Let me put it this way: You guys are starting to sound like Browns fans. There is a reason you don't just throw away a QB who has had success with your organization. If the next HC wants someone else at QB the fine. But I guarantee you any coach in this league would be more than happy to build a team around Dalton.

[Bfanlc]

I've quietly been reading the posts on here and just trying to understand what the thought comprehension is. People throw stats out there to support a qb when the only stat that matters is win and losses. You can't put out stats for 2015 or whatever year when the qb didn't win squat. How do you support people that haven't won a playoff game? You guys have got to have standards. If the coach or qb doesn't win a playoff game in 5 years get them out of there. 5 years is plenty of time to turn things around to rebuild etc. Supporting anything less is just nonsense.

[treee]

(12-18-2017, 05:09 AM)Bfanlc Wrote: I've quietly been reading the posts on here and just trying to understand what the thought comprehension is. People throw stats out there to support a qb when the only stat that matters is win and losses. You can't put out stats for 2015 or whatever year when the qb didn't win squat. How do you support people that haven't won a playoff game? You guys have got to have standards. If the coach or qb doesn't win a playoff game in 5 years get them out of there. 5 years is plenty of time to turn things around to rebuild etc. Supporting anything less is just nonsense.

The main sentiment is that fans may be trying to throw the baby out with the bath water. It so clearly an organizational and coaching issue that is preventing us from having post-season success. There is no doubt about it. It is un-debatable. So with that knowledge, the question becomes do you think another coach could build a team around Dalton that has post-season success? I do. He has shown that he can perform on an elite level when he has the tools in place around him. If another coach sees it differently, then that is okay. 

But the Dalton bashing won't stop. QBs are easy targets.

[Aquapod770]

(12-14-2017, 12:19 AM)TSwigZ Wrote: Andy will NEVER be an elite QB idc about his 2015 season listen to me he’s never going to do anything to win us games he’s never going to be that guy to carry us to the super bowl. Stop defending him, yes the oline is bad but there’s plenty of qbs who could still dominate and secure 17-3 halftime leads

Lol he has done plenty to win us games before, so there goes any credibility you had at the start of this very poor post.

[PDub80]

(12-13-2017, 07:20 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: The number 2 point is absolutely one of the dumbest things I have ever read on the board. The problem with Andy Dalton is the offensive line. Has he missed throws yes but any QB would if they constantly have to worry about getting the ball out before getting hit. Fix the Offensive line and Dalton would be back to his normal self.

^ The above statement is moronic at best.

The problem is the line? the line has gotten much better. Andy Dalton hasn't. Next excuse, please? Stop being a blind derp homer and open your eyes.

If you think 2015 is "normal self" Andy Dalton, you're delusional. 2015 was an outlier season and not typical play for the QB. Guess what, if the guy has to have everything perfect and the ultimate team around him to look really good... he isn't really good. He's a product of the talent around him. It needs to be the opposite of that for the Bengals to be a great team. The QB needs to help make the players around him better NOT the other way around.

Missed throws? MISSED THROWS? That's adorably kind of you. Be honest. He's been dog crap... a lot. No good or very good QB puts up games like he has this season, regardless of what his O-line has been. He's had 2 good games against the Browns. The rest have been horrific, incomplete (1 half against the Packers. 1 Half against the Steelers), or avg/below avg.

Bitching about the O-line is pathetic excuse making at this point. They've been way better for quite a while and Dalton has still been throwing the ball into the Ohio River. It's the NFL. QBs get hit. He doesn't make the plays needed to be successful.

He is what he is at this point and that's not very good. Great human being... not a good NFL QB.

[Interceptor]

The ONLY post I do NOT want to hear:

The Steelers have won their 7th Lombardi.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-18-2017, 02:32 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Yours is much better.  You must think Marvin is candidate for coach of the year...

Andy Dalton is just having a rare down year on the way to multiple Super Bowl Wins and a trip straight to Canton.  

...and the Steelers are just lucky when they play us as we just can’t seem to  not cause a foul every other play extending drive after drive for them.  If anything the NFL favors us as they are  constantly creating rules to ensure less and less of our players keep getting hurt on clean Steeler physical football.  

It’s just coincidental that Big market football teams are usually the ones playing come February.  Most likely because they have more fans praying than what smaller markets do.  Clearly there is no bias from officiating ever.

Are you ***** serious with this shit right here? :troll:

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-18-2017, 09:21 AM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ The above statement is moronic at best.

The problem is the line? the line has gotten much better. Andy Dalton hasn't. Next excuse, please? Stop being a blind derp homer and open your eyes.

If you think 2015 is "normal self" Andy Dalton, you're delusional. 2015 was an outlier season and not typical play for the QB. Guess what, if the guy has to have everything perfect and the ultimate team around him to look really good... he isn't really good. He's a product of the talent around him. It needs to be the opposite of that for the Bengals to be a great team. The QB needs to help make the players around him better NOT the other way around.

Missed throws? MISSED THROWS? That's adorably kind of you. Be honest. He's been dog crap... a lot. No good or very good QB puts up games like he has this season, regardless of what his O-line has been. He's had 2 good games against the Browns. The rest have been horrific, incomplete (1 half against the Packers. 1 Half against the Steelers), or avg/below avg.

Bitching about the O-line is pathetic excuse making at this point. They've been way better for quite a while and Dalton has still been throwing the ball into the Ohio River. It's the NFL. QBs get hit. He doesn't make the plays needed to be successful.

He is what he is at this point and that's not very good. Great human being... not a good NFL QB.

Dalton has struggled this season, but come on man.....let's try to remain objective here.  The line is not WAY better, it has improved slightly, but is still dog shit.  Ogbuehi is the worst tackle in the league.  Blodine is near the bottom for centers.  Look up the grades.  They still suck.

[Stonyhands]

(12-18-2017, 01:33 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Are you ***** serious with this shit right here? :troll:

Of my entire post of sarcasm the part that you highlighted was where I laid it on the thickest.

[Stonyhands]

(12-18-2017, 01:38 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Dalton has struggled this season, but come on man.....let's try to remain objective here.  The line is not WAY better, it has improved slightly, but is still dog shit.  Ogbuehi is the worst tackle in the league.  Blodine is near the bottom for centers.  Look up the grades.  They still suck.

Statistically speaking...unless they give up like 14 sacks in the last two games this won’t even be the worst year for sacks in Dalton’s tenure here.

It only seems that way because the offense isn’t executing third downs and the defense can’t get off the field to improve our time of possession. There are other QBs who are headed to the playoffs behind o-lines that have given up maybe 1-2 less sacks and 7 other QBs that have been sacked even more than Dalton. Plus let’s not pretend that Dalton is all that elusive. We all know he lacks in the pocket awareness category and again not real elusive.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-18-2017, 02:51 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Statistically speaking...unless they give up like 14 sacks in the last two games this won’t even be the worst year for sacks in Dalton’s tenure here.  

It only seems that way because the offense isn’t executing third downs and the defense can’t get off the field to improve our time of possession.  There are other QBs who are headed to the playoffs behind o-lines that have given up maybe 1-2 less sacks and 7 other QBs that have been sacked even more than Dalton.  Plus let’s not pretend that Dalton is all that elusive.  We all know he lacks in the pocket awareness category and again not real elusive.

I'm not pretending anything......I'm watching positions I played, and they're not very good.  Look at YPC, etc.  The line allows for us to have around 2.5 seconds to throw the ball, as was noted in the Pittsburgh game.  During the first half of that game, we were getting the ball out in 2.1 seconds and LESS.  If ANYTHING, the playcalling, and quick hit offense is masking just how bad they are.  Yes, they have improved SOME, but to act like this line is anything other than subpar, is disingenuous at best.  Again, read the scores and rankings, and tell me again how anything other than their play affects that.

He's getting sacked less, because he's out there less.  We were on a record pace after the first several games.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-18-2017, 02:45 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Of my entire post of sarcasm the part that you highlighted was where I laid it on the thickest.

.....it was hard to tell.  In the same post you were bashing the team sarcastically.....then making excuses for them as to why they lose to the Stoolers.  Thought that part was sarcastic as well.....

[*PhilHos*]

(12-18-2017, 09:21 AM)PDub80 Wrote: He is what he is at this point and that's not very good. Great human being... not a good NFL QB.

That's just not true. Argue all you want that he'll never be elite or that he's not a great QB, but by any OBJECTIVE measure, he's a good QB. He has a winning record as a starter, his stats are those of a good QB, etc. 

(12-18-2017, 01:33 PM)Wyche Wrote: Are you ***** serious with this shit right here? :troll:

Oops. Looks like someone's TRUE allegiance is shining through.

[bengalsfansince93]

(12-18-2017, 06:12 AM)treee Wrote: The main sentiment is that fans may be trying to throw the baby out with the bath water. It so clearly an organizational and coaching issue that is preventing us from having post-season success. There is no doubt about it. It is un-debatable. So with that knowledge, the question becomes do you think another coach could build a team around Dalton that has post-season success? I do. He has shown that he can perform on an elite level when he has the tools in place around him. If another coach sees it differently, then that is okay. 

But the Dalton bashing won't stop. QBs are easy targets.

the organization is not throwing picks or not moving the offence.  That is Andy Dalton.  Yes the organization sucks.  But Andy is on the field with the ball the organization is in some cozy suite.  watching from above.  

[Stonyhands]

(12-18-2017, 03:06 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: .....it was hard to tell.  In the same post you were bashing the team sarcastically.....then making excuses for them as to why they lose to the Stoolers.  Thought that part was sarcastic as well.....

All of my post was a response to another poster. I do not honestly believe that they think Marvin Lewis is a candidate for COY. Despite my differing opinion Dalton I don’t believe that anybody believes that Dalton is a Superstar that’s going to bounce back and have a hall of fame career leading to multiple Super Bowl wins.

I certainly do not believe any of the crap about the Steelers playing clean physical football or that we just happen to commit more penalties when facing them than any other teams every single time we play them.

I honestly thought when I put that the Steelers play clean physical football that would be the most obvious part of the post that screamed this guy is being SARCASTIC.

But many homers on here will read into it however it suits them and just call me a troll...Not naming anyone in particular.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-18-2017, 09:45 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: All of my post was a response to another poster.  I do not honestly believe that they think Marvin Lewis is a candidate for COY.  Despite my differing opinion Dalton I don’t believe that anybody believes that Dalton is a Superstar that’s going to bounce back and have a hall of fame career leading to multiple Super Bowl wins.  

I certainly do not believe any of the crap about the Steelers playing clean physical football or that we just happen to commit more penalties when facing them than any other teams every single time we play them.  

I honestly thought when I put that the Steelers play clean physical football that would be the most obvious part of the post that screamed this guy is being SARCASTIC.    

But many homers on here will read into it however it suits them and just call me a troll...Not naming anyone in particular.

I get that it was sarcasm.....but it just didn't make sense to me in the context of the post initially.

Personally....I feel the team is so poorly ran and managed...that the refs are a non factor.  They'll always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

So....I just didn't understand trashing them....and then making excuses with sarcasm as to why they are owned by Shitsburgh.  I understand now....but that part just seemed out of place to me. Sorry.

[Stonyhands]

(12-18-2017, 09:55 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I get that it was sarcasm.....but it just didn't make sense to me in the context of the post initially.

Personally....I feel the team is so poorly ran and managed...that the refs are a non factor.  They'll always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

So....I just didn't understand trashing them....and then making excuses with sarcasm as to why they are owned by Shitsburgh.  I understand now....but that part just seemed out of place to me. Sorry.

The team is 100% mismanaged. For me at least that magnifies how much it pisses me off to see calls always seeming to go against us. Isn’t it enough of a handicap to have Marvin and Company on the sideline. Do we really have to get the first down twice and from ten yards back every time we miraculously break off a run for more than 10 yards. Or how about a TD to Green let stand instead of calling a BS holding on the smallest guy on the field who served his purpose as nothing more than a speed bump.

It just gets frustrating. It’s hard to get excited watching this team because of its history. I try not to let what happens with this team influence my life whatsoever but at times when things are going well I can’t help but feel it’s not going to last and I instantly feel the same as how I feel when watching a Bengals game. I’ve gone many Sundays where I was just pissed off the whole day after the game and following day. It’s not even so much that they lose but it’s how. I find myself asking how insane am I to keep coming back expecting a different result when Mike Brown’s keeps using the same recipe for disaster. I guess the hopeless optimistic, yeah right, feels like if I don’t watch it’ll be the one game that everything just clicks.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Rucy, I’m gonna ‘splain something:

It’s hard to have pocket presence when a pocket is not present.

Throwing off the back foot is necessary when there’s a nose tackle almost standing on your front foot.

It’s hard to throw to an open receiver when nobody is open.

No sustained protection means no deep ball.

It’s useless to step up in the pocket when there’s a linebacker waiting for you to do exactly that.

This happened to Andy Dalton, AJ McCarron, Carson Palmer, and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[McC]

(12-18-2017, 11:42 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Rucy, I’m gonna ‘splain something:

It’s hard to have pocket presence when a pocket is not present.

Throwing off the back foot is necessary when there’s a nose tackle almost standing on your front foot.

It’s hard to throw to an open receiver when nobody is open.

No sustained protection means no deep ball.

It’s useless to step up in the pocket when there’s a linebacker waiting for you to do exactly that.

This happened to Andy Dalton, AJ McCarron, Carson Palmer, and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Think back to the last time we had a good C.  The offense just roasted people, except the Jets, of course.  

[Stonyhands]

(12-18-2017, 11:42 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Rucy, I’m gonna ‘splain something:

It’s hard to have pocket presence when a pocket is not present.

Throwing off the back foot is necessary when there’s a nose tackle almost standing on your front foot.

It’s hard to throw to an open receiver when nobody is open.

No sustained protection means no deep ball.

It’s useless to step up in the pocket when there’s a linebacker waiting for you to do exactly that.

This happened to Andy Dalton, AJ McCarron, Carson Palmer, and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Those are all great ?. But if you actually have the game rewatch the couple of series that AJ was in and really pay attention to what he does. The pocket collapsed from the outside and he stepped up into space and instantly had more time. Really watch and you’ll see this...you’ll see that when he bailed out of the pocket he had his eyes up field as well. I honestly do not remember a recent time where Andy sensed pressure coming off the edge and stepped up. ...and no LBs don’t just sit and watch the QB in case they take a step forward in the pocket.

Watch the tape, it doesn’t lie.