Since Vikings 11 & 3 with same Def System - Can someone provide their Cap $ versus Us

[Derrick]

(12-18-2017, 03:33 PM)depthchart Wrote: This does give me some Hope for the future.

Enough money is being spent to Win, however, it will take better Football minds going forward to make sure those dollars are allocated more efficiently.

Still need those better Football minds to appear, however, which may or may not happen.

Not when most of the FO are part of the same inept DNA cluster.

Folks, there is little to no hope for a serious turnaround with this franchise as long as the Brown clan owns it. Maybe IF they
are ever forced to sell, the new ownership will bring in real football minded people to make important decisions about coaches, players, trainers, etc.. Unless, and until, don't get your hopes up. It is an exercise in futility.

[depthchart]

(12-18-2017, 04:02 PM)Derrick Wrote: Not when most of the FO are part of the same inept DNA cluster.

Folks, there is little to no hope for a serious turnaround with this franchise as long as the Brown clan owns it. Maybe IF they
are ever forced to sell, the new ownership will bring in real football minded people to make important decisions about coaches, players, trainers, etc.. Unless, and until, don't get your hopes up. It is an exercise in futility.

It must Skip a generation in the DNA realm because Paul Brown was an NFL Legend. 

I agree with your premise.

The Wheels are turning in Mike Brown's head for offseason changes and who knows what that will mean.

He will probably make a Bland, Vanilla, Boring change with an uninspiring New Coach that leads to more of the same.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2017, 03:41 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: How do we know that if the coaching is this bad though? Maybe if we didnt have PA fighting for Bodine when most people know he is a piece of garbage this line wouldnt suck so bad.  Maybe we wouldnt have drafted Ogbuehi and Fischer. Maybe these guys are really good but they need a new coach to teach them. Maybe a new coach would not have drafted John Ross , or if he did make sure his coaches can learn to use him. 

These coaches that know they can do anything they want and cannot be fired  are the problem. Most coaching staffs in the NFL do not get to stay around this. Some fresh blood is what we need. 

Whenever you have coaches picking the players they draft then coaching them...it's a huge conflict of interest. Coaches will stick with underperforming guys to try to prove they were the right pick.

Fresh blood is good, but ultimately the problem is management allows complacency.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2017, 04:14 PM)depthchart Wrote: It must Skip a generation in the DNA realm because Paul Brown was an NFL Legend. 

I agree with your premise.

The Wheels are turning in Mike Brown's head for offseason changes and who knows what that will mean.

He will probably make a Bland, Vanilla, Boring change with an uninspiring New Coach that leads to more of the same.

Oh...they're going to hire someone who can work well with them...that's for sure.

[McC]

(12-18-2017, 04:14 PM)depthchart Wrote: It must Skip a generation in the DNA realm because Paul Brown was an NFL Legend. 

I agree with your premise.

The Wheels are turning in Mike Brown's head for offseason changes and who knows what that will mean.

He will probably make a Bland, Vanilla, Boring change with an uninspiring New Coach that leads to more of the same.

Actually, it's not so much skipping a generation as it is dying with Paul.

[treee]

(12-18-2017, 03:28 PM)depthchart Wrote: John Ross is an example.

He gets #9 overall pick Money but is unable to get on the field.

If we are spending about the same as the Vikings, then it comes down to how Effective their decision makers are versus ours with who they target to spend money on.

It blows my mind that Mike is so shrewd with his money but is fine with letting first round picks ride the pine, even when the veterans ahead of them aren't playing up to scratch. That's about the worst bang for your buck you could possibly get. No logic at all.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2017, 04:22 PM)treee Wrote: It blows my mind that Mike is so shrewd with his money but is fine with letting first round picks ride the pine, even when the veterans ahead of them aren't playing up to scratch. That's about the worst bang for your buck you could possibly get. No logic at all.

You know...the way to do things cheap in the NFL is to get a bunch of rookies playing because they're on cheap deals...so that is a valid argument.

Or how about how the retain aging veterans that produce very little on decent sized contracts?

[jj22]

In before someone points to the Jags as a reason why Free Agency doesn't work.... Wait.

Hobspin is going to have his hands full with the anti free agency excuses this offseason.

[bengals67]

why did they waste a first round pick on Z knowing they would not sign a guard to a second contract. I have never understood this.

Totally missed on Dre as a CB. He is average or below average.

Re-signing Dre ( with the other decent young corners on the team) and letting Whit and Z walk ( no replacements on roster) is truly inconceivable.

Missed on Hunt.

Took Gio over Bell as I recall.

why did they take Og with a first round pick knowing he would not play his first year? Truly, would any other team have spent a first round pick on an injured Og.

Why did they waste the pick on Ross who they knew was injured. Plus, it is apparent that Marvin opposed Ross and has a grudge against him.

I think our last three first round picks did not play in their first season though the CB was hurt in preseason or something like that.  What other team does this.

Not replacing Bodine after year after year of below average play is mind blowing.

There are so many bad decisions regularly made by the Bengals- how can you list them all and where do you start.

If Duke Tobin has made the draft calls then there is a serious issue about him as well and coaches.

So many problems and most are too highly ingrained in the owners for any hope of improvement without radical change.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-18-2017, 03:41 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: How do we know that if the coaching is this bad though? Maybe if we didnt have PA fighting for Bodine when most people know he is a piece of garbage this line wouldnt suck so bad.  Maybe we wouldnt have drafted Ogbuehi and Fischer. Maybe these guys are really good but they need a new coach to teach them. Maybe a new coach would not have drafted John Ross , or if he did make sure his coaches can learn to use him. 

These coaches that know they can do anything they want and cannot be fired  are the problem. Most coaching staffs in the NFL do not get to stay around this. Some fresh blood is what we need. 

Don't blame all of that on the coaches.
Now one thing I will blame, is teaching them and using what they have to their fullest.

Duke Tobin drafts the players, just look at how John Ross is being treated by Marvin. He was not Marvin's pick, it was Duke and MB's pick.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-18-2017, 04:14 PM)depthchart Wrote: It must Skip a generation in the DNA realm because Paul Brown was an NFL Legend. 

I agree with your premise.

The Wheels are turning in Mike Brown's head for offseason changes and who knows what that will mean.

He will probably make a Bland, Vanilla, Boring change with an uninspiring New Coach that leads to more of the same.

it means time for him to Buy new underwear.

[Utts]

Their cap status will not prove much at all. You aren’t comparing apples to apples, there’s a lot more that goes into it than that.

[Socal Bengals fan]

We paid top dollar for Dre Kirkpatrick meanwhile the Vikings paid for Rhodes who plays like a shut down corner...theres a huge difference..

[Cure4CF]

I’m sad now

[Circleville Guy]

They had a choice between two good OL and instead extended 2 sucky CBS, they can’t evaluate need or talent. They keep hasbeen talent way too long because mike is too lazy and doesn’t care enough about actually winning to sign free agents. I’m giving the Bengals one more year(even though I shouldn’t) and if nothing changes, mike and his “business” can F off. Make no mistake, that isn’t his team...It’s his business. I want to root for a team and not a for profit organization. I’ve been a gluten for punishment and a slave to this bullchit too long. The team doesn’t have to necessarily win but when the owner doesn’t put in effort or even care if they win, it’s time to move on. I use to think that putting up with his crap proved that I was a good and loyal fan. It really has only proved myself and others to be smucks that he has taken advantage of. I’ve cared less about this team this year than any since becoming a fan. The owner ONLY cares abou making money, winning is a bonus to him if it happens to happen. If not, he DOES NOT CARE. He may like Orange and Black but he loves and worships Green..... and I don’t mean AJ Green. This bastard has me all bent tonight. I’m off to bed.

[kevin]

(12-18-2017, 02:48 PM)depthchart Wrote: I'm at work with little time.

Can some of you Compare & Contrast the Vikings with the Bengals ?  (in part, since they have the same Defensive System as we do)

What is their Cap number versus ours ?

I hear they spent more in Free Agency ?  How much more ?

Are they Spending a lot more Money Overall ?

Is it that they are just Drafting better ? 

Are things somewhat equal in the "Overall Spending" area but the Coaching is the difference ?  Or do they spend significantly more ?

Are their Coordinators & Assistants really better paid ?  If so, by how much ?

Etc...

Did we PEAK out at a competitive Spending number in 2015 and then backed it down a lot relative to the 2017 team & the 2017 Cap ?

In other words, are we Spending money "Competitively" when compared to the Vikings ?

Or is it more about them having better Football minds making their decisions ?  or a combination of both ?

Compare & Contrast the 2017 Vikings versus the 2017 Bengals (with an eye on our 2015 team as our recent Peak Roster under Mike Brown) to gauge our chances going forward.

I have a feeling it may be less about spending Money and more about having solid NFL people making the decisions.

If we won't spend competitively AND won't get Top Notch NFL people to make the decisions then we are Double screwed going forward.

TO THE OP :  WE DON"T HAVE THE SAME DEFENSIVE SYSTEM .....Once Paul Brown died, he was gone.  Once Sam Wyche was fired, Bengals tried to run his offense but as Bob Trump told Collinsworth on WLW Radio that's impossible.  Once the coach is gone, the system is gone. ...So we DO NOT have the Zimmer Defense because Zimmer is in Minnesota. They have the Zimmer defense now. ...We do still have a Marvin Lewis system, but I hear that is about to change....

So again to the OP :  WE DO NOT HAVE THE SAME SYSTEM AS MINNESOTA.  ZIMMER IS GONE AND TOOK HIS SYSTEM WITH HIM.  OUR COACHES NOW ARE NOT ZIMMER AND SO NOT THE SAME SYSTEM. 

Remember that any time you lose a coach, you lose the system....Steelers no longer have LeBeau system. They may think they do, but they don't. Once the coach is gone, the system is gone. We lost the Zimmer system when he left. New coaches bring in their own systems. ...I'll add that if we had Zimmer in 2015 play-off game against Steelers, he has more control over Burfict and Pacman and never lets his D lose focus giving up 30 yards in 2 separate unsportsmanlike penalties in same play to put Steelers in last second game winning field goal range. We missed Zimmer RIGHT THERE. He would have taken his players aside on the sidelines during that game and kept them in focus, pounding home that the Steelers were trying to get them mad and upset and playing stupid football. ......You don't see the Vikings defense playing stupid football like ours, and you won't, because Zimmer won't let his players get so out of focus. WE NO LONGER HAVE THE ZIMMER SYSTEM.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-19-2017, 01:21 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: We paid top dollar  for Dre Kirkpatrick meanwhile the Vikings paid for Rhodes who plays like a shut down corner...theres a huge difference..

Yeah...we've had poor to average at best drafts for the past 5 years too.

You can shun free agency to some level if you keep hitting...but those players eventually become free agents so you can't dodge that bullet forever.

Then, when you lose those guys you need to replace them somehow.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-18-2017, 03:14 PM)depthchart Wrote: So in essence, the Vikings had to sign a number of Free Agents to Boost their Cap number up to match the Bengals Cap number ?

If this is correct, then the Bengals not Spending enough Money isn't really our problem.

We are Spending at a Competitive Rate but it is not being Targeted properly ?

The problem is the players being selected/acquired in the offseason.