Do we really have the players to succeed??

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2017, 09:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Schematically, this team is awful.  They go from never doing bootlegs and waggles to doing something like 10 straight and then went to the well once too often on a third and one and got sacked for a loss of 7 yards.  Can't believe we STILL can't rush the ball for a yard on third and one or fourth and one.

Talent-wise, this team's biggest deficiencies lie in the middle:

1.) Middle of the offensive line has no push at all
2.) Middle of the defensive line, aside from Geno, has no push or ability to anchor.  
3.) Middle of the field on defense, LBs and Safeties, are the weakest point on the entire team.  We have two LBs that can cover (Vigil and Burfict) and no safeties.  The lack of safety play is also a function of scheme and lack of LB play.

If this team is serious about winning (we all seem to have doubts there), they need to make some significant changes:

1.) Cut Shawn Williams.  An absolute liability in coverage and a poor tackler.  No idea why we extended him.
2.) Cut Brandon Lafell.  Worst #2 WR in the league.
3.) NOT re-sign Eifert
4.) Not sign Bodine

Use these dollars in FA to build the offensive and defensive lines.  I would find a veteran Center over any other position as a FA target.  Draft LB, S, DT, G, OT.  WRs, TEs, RBs, DEs, and CBs won't matter if the middle of the team is still such a massive black hole of suck.

Lastly, and I know this will flame people, but I would look for trade offers for AJ Green.  A key line player plus a first rounder and I wouldn't think twice about it.

Your plan is very similar to what I would do if I had control.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2017, 12:38 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's how I see it, too.  We had a top offense in 2015 and we went into 2016 having lost Hue, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Eifert (because he was hurt) and we convinced ourselves that Hue was too cute, Jones and Sanu were easy to replace with Lafell, Eifert being hurt would open the door for Kroft, and Zampese would tie it all together by being in over his head and having to let Dalton call the shots.

2016 was a big step backwards.  Then we go into 2017 having lost our 2 best o-linemen and we are back to convincing ourselves that we made the right move by letting people walk, again.  We are more inclined to let people go and less inclined to sign FA's to plug the holes we allow to appear...and we have 2 really bad seasons back-to-back to show for it.

Seriously, 6 wins and now what...probably a 5 or 6 win season?  To put this in perspective, prior to the Browns completely blowing things up these past few years, they've been good for about 5 wins per year since they were last semi-relevant.  We are looking at our 2nd season in a row of being slightly better than one could expect the Browns to be.  Ouch.

5 or 6 wins this year is equivalent to 2-3 wins most years with our epically weak schedule.

But yes - Free agency ripped this team apart. The Bengals sold us on saving cap money by not signing free agents to keep this team together indefinitely...but that wasn't realistic.

For our model to work, we need to have 2-3 good drafts over every 4-5 year span to replace guys we lose.

It's going to take catching lighting in a bottle to have an elite roster again. Not signing free agents just puts so much pressure on us to draft and develop players.

[McC]

Since we don't have the schemes to succeed, it blurs the picture. But the simple answer probably is we have some of the players to succeed but still need more.

[Joelist]

Get a legit head coach and new position coaches who actually coach players up and set a tough minded, winning tone and then we can better see what we truly have. That said, even with such coaches we need to use at minimum our top three picks on Offensive Line starting with Center. And use Free Agency as well on Free Safety, LB and OL.

[Bengal Dude]

Getting a new coaching staff is key. They may be able to salvage some of these players, but we definitely need a lot of upgrades. 

We need 4 new OL. Boling is good player, but it's not a good sign when he's your best player. 

WR is a tough one. AJ is an elite talent, but that's about it. We have no idea what we have in Ross because of Marvin's doghouse. Malone is supposedly another Marvin Jones, but it means nothing if we can't get him the ball.  After that, nothing special. Lafell has 0 reason to be on this team next year. Boyd is just meh. Erickson is a step above Quan Cosby. Core is a STer who sucks on ST. 

We have go to have one of the worst LB groups in the league. Burfict is not going to last much longer. If he's not injured, then he's suspended. We have absolutely nothing after him. 

We need to get a 3T in here to possibly take over for Geno soon. At the very least, give us a quality DT on the field when Geno isn't on it. 

[Millhouse]

I would say they are about 3-4 players with better coaching from making a legit run to make the playoffs.

Then I would say they might need another 2-3 players to make a run in the playoffs. So thats about 1/3rd of the starting 22.

And I am being generous with my estimates, very generous.

[Hammerstripes]

What groups are "playoff" ready? Look at the roster and you'll probably be surprised.

1. WR
2. RB
3. DE
4. DT
5. S
6. CB

Those groups are all good enough to make the playoffs and win in the playoffs.

Where we have the issues are at the following, and it really kills us:

C,OG,T, LB

[J24]

I think if you took our top 10 players and gave it to a head coach and  front office they would be pretty happy with those guys. With that being said if you took 11- 53 those same people would barf. There either bad or duplicates of each other. 
Glasgow and Billings are both nose tackles yet they play the majority of the time together. Iloka is more of a QB of the secondary and Williams is more of an in box type guy but neither are true play making type players. I actually believe Williams should be an LB over Safety but that's another story.  It is unfair to call those guys bad per say but they don't fit each other either.
 Then you look at our Offensive line we have two guys that are complete crap in Bodine and Ced. Then we have Hopkins and Smith who are having bad years but are they bad because there bad or because Bodine and Ced are so bad that it drags them down.

[PDub80]

(12-18-2017, 09:38 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I think that we have the talent to make a push, but not to win the super bowl. We need to upgrade our OL first and foremost, and then get a couple of good LBs and we probably could win a SB with the right coach.

What have you seen from the QB that leads you to believe he's capable of leading a team to the Superbowl?

Was it this? Can't you just feel the team feeding off of his energy at the end? Inspiring, no?

[PDub80]

When 100% healthy...

1: RB
2: TE (with Eifert)
3: WR
4: DLine
5: CB/2ndary
6: LB Burfict
7: S Teams


Where are they NOT?
1: Head Coach
2: QB
3: O line

^ I think if they fix #1 & 3, the QB's weaknesses can be hidden.

[Derrick]

(12-18-2017, 09:21 AM)sonofstat Wrote: After the playoff loss in 2015 I would have agreed...we seemed to be loaded on both sides of the ball and if not for the losses of discipline we should have had playoff success.

However after the free agency drain in 2016 and 2017 we continue to lack consistent quality across the roster.  

Because we're fans we obviously try and talk up the talent based on the slightest sliver of productions but I look at Billings, Rey , Vigil, Williams, MJ, Lafell, Malone, Core , Ross, Uzomah, Hopkins, Ced, Fish, Bodine, etc, etc.....that's a lot of starters/contributors or potentially soon to be starters who right now are simply not playoff level talent.

Put it another way....talent wise are we nearer the Browns than we are to the Steelers right now ??  

I'm sure people's instant, emotional reaction would be to say we are just off the Steelers but seriously look down our current list of starters and tell me if you were not a Bengals fan you say there is the quality there for playoff success...

I agree. We "grasp at straws" hoping to "catch lightning in a bottle" mostly out of desperation and 27 years of frustration.  Feel free to add your own clichés.

[Derrick]

(12-19-2017, 05:53 PM)PDub80 Wrote: What have you seen from the QB that leads you to believe he's capable of leading a team to the Superbowl?

Was it this? Can't you just feel the team feeding off of his energy at the end? Inspiring, no?

Not exactly Seal Team VI material.

[*bengalfan74*]

Right now ? NO

But I honestly believe with the right moves , entire new coaching staff, active free agency, good draft, free hand given to HC to put a program together, and so on. This team could be competitive next season and be a real threat the following one !

Problem is a new HC will most likely want his own QB. So we're probably looking at a basically total rebuild.

[Circleville Guy]

They only need to replace all of their coaches and a third of their starters. Man, they’re so close. Smh

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-19-2017, 05:53 PM)PDub80 Wrote: What have you seen from the QB that leads you to believe he's capable of leading a team to the Superbowl?

Was it this? Can't you just feel the team feeding off of his energy at the end? Inspiring, no?

Lmao

[Thundercloud]

Lots of very good points being made here about talent level. I think the overall decline is the talent drain of 2016 and 2017, combined with the fact that we try to fight it with only the draft. It's like we've got one hand tied behind our back.

First and foremost we have to rebuild the offensive line, but we need linebackers, too. You just can't do all that stuff using just the draft, no matter how good you are at drafting. We have to abandon our old fashioned approach to free agency. I'm not for going wild like some teams, but we must at least try to get a couple of top tier free agents.

Then come up with two or three good draft choices and you end up with five good contributing new talents on the roster. Obviously, my numbers are arbitrary, but you get the idea. We are not fighting the talent drain correctly at all.

[Utts]

It feels like a lot of people figure we just need a HC that yells at players. If it were that simple, every team in the league would have a Bill Cowher and Super Bowl trophy.

[sonofstat]

(12-19-2017, 04:40 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: What groups are "playoff" ready?  Look at the roster and you'll probably be surprised.

1.  WR
2.  RB
3.  DE
4.  DT
5.  S
6. CB

Those groups are all good enough to make the playoffs and win in the playoffs.

Where we have the issues are at the following, and it really kills us:

C,OG,T, LB

You reckon our WR group is no.1 position in terms of being playoff calibre/ready?!?

Honestly that is one of the position groups I have some of the most questions about right now and is a good example of what triggered this whole thread...

Yes , we have AJ clearly.....but LaFell, Core, Malone, Ross, Boyd??  

We've had so much debate on these boards pre season and then during the season about a bunch of guys who've barely done anything this year...its all potential and 'what if' and after the past two seasons I'm now pretty pessimistic about whether it ever becomes reality. 

A playoff off calibre WR corps who are a serious , #1 position group type strength looks more like Chad/Housh/Henry....or even AJ/MJones/Sanu....not AJ + plus a bunch of guys