Paul Daugherty: If Lewis is out, shouldn't Dalton follow?

[Daddy-O]

(12-19-2017, 10:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Only 2 QBs in the NFL that have started every game have a worse passer rating than Dalton and he is 21st overall. Folks that have blamed his poor play on everything else but him are running out of scapegoats. We should definitely part ways with AD if we reboot. Let's see what someone is willing to give for AD.

AD will easily bring a 1st rounder and maybe more.  There are probably at least 15 teams who would pony up - especially Cleveland.  

You have to realize it is very difficult to find a franchise QB in the NFL.  Dalton has proven to be one of these and is still relatively young by NFL QB standards.

Although I like the potential return, we have to be very careful what we wish for.  Dalton is extremely smart and durable.  That combination can outweigh physical talent in a lot of cases.

Not sure I'm ready to part with that combination for "potential".  Think I'd prefer to see what Dalton can do under a different staff.  All he's had is Marvin and his lack of creativity.

[XenoMorph]

Andy had a Decent OL 1 year while QB here and it was 2015.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

I'd say it's time to move on as well.  However, they HAVE to fix the line, and MUST move on from Piano Man.  Hell, we may have some decent guys on our line already that just aren't being coached up.....who knows.  We can win with Dalton, even with a depleted receiving corp, as is evidenced by the 2014 campaign.....but if you don't give him time in the pocket CONSISTENTLY, he struggles mightily.  That's really the crux of it, if you're being objective and really paying attention to the games.

Myself, I'd rather get a good FA QB (Cousins), or trade him for one....or something along those lines, and get all the oline and LB help in the draft you can.  Or vice versa....trade him for linemen/LB and draft a QB early.

[*bfine32*]

(12-20-2017, 02:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hilarious to me how Dalton was having an MVP season two years ago before injury, then last year we have no running game now the line blows and a new coordinator and everyone wants Dalton gone.

Only in Bengalsland........

I think the hilarious part is that some will point to one incomplete year out of 7 and claim that it is the norm instead of the anomaly.


Only in Bengalsland...........

[BMK]

I don't believe this team needs to be totally blown up and rebuilt from scratch.

Though it's unclear if Dalton can / will be the future of the franchise, I think it would be foolish to part with him right now. With a new coach, and the other more pressing needs to focus on, Dalton provides a source of stability and keeps the core of skill players intact while going through the coming transition. Otherwise, this team will become the Browns and wallow for many seasons while trying to get it's legs under them.

Besides, I think at the very least, he's earned the opportunity to see what he can do in a different system under new leadership. Who knows what lurks underneath once the Lewis, Zampese, Lasor stink is chiseled off. You can always unload him later. Besides, his contract is still relatively team friendly, and bringing in anyone new, whether a proven veteran or hot shot 1st round rookie, is probably going to cost the team more over the same period of time as the remainder of AD's contract.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-20-2017, 11:29 AM)BMK Wrote: I don't believe this team needs to be totally blown up and rebuilt from scratch.

Though it's unclear if Dalton can / will be  the future of the franchise, I think it would be foolish to part with him right now. With a new coach, and the other more pressing needs to focus on, Dalton provides a source of stability and keeps the core of skill players intact while going through the coming transition. Otherwise, this team will become the Browns and wallow for many seasons while trying to get it's legs under them.

Besides,  I think he at the very least, he's earned the opportunity to see what he can do in a different system under new leadership.

Good points.....but I still wouldn't be against drafting his potential replacement, so long as the line is somewhat fixed in the offseason with FA and shitcanning Alexander.

[CornerBlitz]

(12-20-2017, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the hilarious part is that some will point to one incomplete year out of 7 and claim that it is the norm instead of the anomaly.


Only in Bengalsland...........

I tend to disagree with you on most things, but regarding our QB situation, i'm with you 100%.

[*Nately120*]

Isn't Dalton under a rather team-friendly contract for another 3 years? Ida know, seems wiser to keep him around and build around him and then look for another QB than to toss him aside. I don't see us trading him either, but who knows.

[CJD]

(12-20-2017, 11:29 AM)BMK Wrote: I don't believe this team needs to be totally blown up and rebuilt from scratch.

Though it's unclear if Dalton can / will be  the future of the franchise, I think it would be foolish to part with him right now. With a new coach, and the other more pressing needs to focus on, Dalton provides a source of stability and keeps the core of skill players intact while going through the coming transition. Otherwise, this team will become the Browns and wallow for many seasons while trying to get it's legs under them.

Besides,  I think  at the very least, he's earned the opportunity to see what he can do in a different system under new leadership. Who knows what lurks underneath once the Lewis, Zampese, Lasor stink is chiseled off. You can always unload him later. Besides, his contract is still relatively team friendly, and bringing in anyone new, whether a proven veteran or hot shot 1st round rookie, is probably going to cost the team more over the same period of time as the remainder of AD's contract.

I don't think we should part with Dalton. But I think a highly competitive (Read: not a 5th round pick) QB competition would be extremely good for this team as we rebuild.

[J24]

(12-20-2017, 11:52 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't think we should part with Dalton. But I think a highly competitive (Read: not a 5th round pick) QB competition would be extremely good for this team as we rebuild.

So you want to draft a guy early who has no chance in hell of beating Dalton in a competition instead of drafting a guy that could help the team. You either build around him or trade him not this competition crap.

[*Nately120*]

(12-20-2017, 11:58 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: So you want to draft a guy early who has no chance in hell of beating Dalton in a competition instead of drafting a guy that could help the team. You either build around him or trade him not this competition crap.

Hmm, the Bengals haven't had a QB competition since what...Blake vs O'Donnell in 98 or something?  Part of me says we need to have one so we can do anything/something/everything new...part of me knows we've been pretty fortunate with having Palmer/Dalton for the past 15 years.  We haven't gone bust on a QB for a while, nor had to really stretch for one.

[*bfine32*]

(12-20-2017, 11:35 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I tend to disagree with you on most things, but regarding our QB situation, i'm with you 100%.

Well at least you're not always wrong.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-20-2017, 12:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, the Bengals haven't had a QB competition since what...Blake vs O'Donnell in 98 or something?  Part of me says we need to have one so we can do anything/something/everything new...part of me knows we've been pretty fortunate with having Palmer/Dalton for the past 15 years.  We haven't gone bust on a QB for a while, nor had to really stretch for one.

If only we had gotten a better coaching staff during that stretch......  

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2017, 11:52 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't think we should part with Dalton. But I think a highly competitive (Read: not a 5th round pick) QB competition would be extremely good for this team as we rebuild.

(12-20-2017, 12:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, the Bengals haven't had a QB competition since what...Blake vs O'Donnell in 98 or something?  Part of me says we need to have one so we can do anything/something/everything new...part of me knows we've been pretty fortunate with having Palmer/Dalton for the past 15 years.  We haven't gone bust on a QB for a while, nor had to really stretch for one.

I can agree with you guys that drafting another QB might be prudent, I still would not spend a high pick on one, right now.  The team has too many areas of immediate need.

*Unless, of course a new HC had no desire to work with, or build around Andy.

Even then, the new guy is still faced with an OL that is in shambles, a sketchy secondary, and a weak LB corps.  Like I said, a lot of immediate needs on this team.

[*bfine32*]

KC seems to be doing OK drafting a young QB while still having an established starter.

[*PhilHos*]

I don't know which I "love" more, those that think exactly like Mike Brown and think if you don't have an elite QB you need to find one all while criticizing the way Mike Brown does things OR those who think if you're not a great QB, you suck and there's no inbetween.

Dalton is a good QB. The only way you can argue otherwise is with non-quantifiable things. If you don't think he can win big games, that's understandable. But, that alone does not make him a bad QB. Dalton is a GOOD QB. The fact that this is even argued just embarrasses me as a Bengal fan (not to the degree that Mike Brown embarrasses me, but still ...)

Look, if you want a new QB because you don't think Dalton will ever be able to win a playoff game, ok, I get it. I disagree, but I get it. If you want a new QB because there are some good choices this coming draft, I'm with you as long as our choice has the potential to be better than Dalton.

People need to stop with the narrative that Dalton sucks. He doesn't. Maybe he sucks in big games and in the playoffs (he's mostly sucked there so far), and maybe it is time to move on, but Dalton is NOT a bad QB.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-20-2017, 11:52 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't think we should part with Dalton. But I think a highly competitive (Read: not a 5th round pick) QB competition would be extremely good for this team as we rebuild.

If we draft a QB in the first 2 rounds, either he starts or he sits and learns. No competition. All it's going to do is take away reps away from whomever the starter is which may not be so bad if it's Dalton, but if the rookie were to start, he will need all the reps he can get.

[CJD]

(12-20-2017, 12:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can agree with you guys that drafting another QB might be prudent, I still would not spend a high pick on one, right now.  The team has too many areas of immediate need.

*Unless, of course a new HC had no desire to work with, or build around Andy.

Even then, the new guy is still faced with an OL that is in shambles, a sketchy secondary, and a weak LB corps.  Like I said, a lot of immediate needs on this team.

I think Oline is certainly a bigger need. And it needs to be addressed.


I just think, unless we continue to fail completely, this is our last chance to get our hands on an elite level QB (assuming we improve over the next few years, of course, which would be the goal if we don't take a QB). Assuming Darnold, Allen, Jackson and Rosen come out this draft there's a good chance we can get a QB of the future because of our draft position.
You can get guards, centers and OTs in the 20s (if we can make it back there, ideally  ) as well as in the 2nd round. But not many elite QBs come from the bottom of the first round or the second round (or beyond).

Filling immediate needs is not a bad idea and could potentially pay off. But if we are faced with an elite QB prospect or a Good OL prospect, I hope they think past the team's immediate needs and take the player that could potentially propel us farther than we've ever been in the next few years.

If we believe that we can fix every single hole on the team in this draft, then I would say we should consider passing on the QB. However, if we think next year is a rebuilding year, then a QB should definitely be, at the very least, a serious consideration in the top 10 this year.

Imagine if we had drafted DeShaun Watson this year instead of John Ross :\. I would feel so much better about this team than I do now haha.

[CJD]

(12-20-2017, 12:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If we draft a QB in the first 2 rounds, either he starts or he sits and learns. No competition. All it's going to do is take away reps away from whomever the starter is which may not be so bad if it's Dalton, but if the rookie were to start, he will need all the reps he can get.

Well yea. Maybe competition isn't the right word. But "planning for the future" is the idea.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2017, 12:25 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think Oline is certainly a bigger need. And it needs to be addressed.


I just think, unless we continue to fail completely, this is our last chance to get our hands on an elite level QB (assuming we improve over the next few years, of course, which would be the goal if we don't take a QB). Assuming Darnold, Allen, Jackson and Rosen come out this draft there's a good chance we can get a QB of the future because of our draft position.
You can get guards, centers and OTs in the 20s (if we can make it back there, ideally  ) as well as in the 2nd round. But not many elite QBs come from the bottom of the first round or the second round (or beyond).

Filling immediate needs is not a bad idea and could potentially pay off. But if we are faced with an elite QB prospect or a Good OL prospect, I hope they think past the team's immediate needs and take the player that could potentially propel us farther than we've ever been in the next few years.

If we believe that we can fix every single hole on the team in this draft, then I would say we should consider passing on the QB. However, if we think next year is a rebuilding year, then a QB should definitely be, at the very least, a serious consideration in the top 10 this year.

Imagine if we had drafted DeShaun Watson this year instead of John Ross :\. I would feel so much better about this team than I do now haha.

I could totally get on board with you on the selection of a new franchise QB, if I had any confidence that the team would utilize free agency to fill some of those holes with quality, proven players.