MJ injury opens door for Hardison

[fredtoast]

http://www.bengals.c...8b-3da2204b2765

Hardison, a fourth-round pick out of Arizona State, started out playing the three technique but when right end Michael Johnson went down with an MCL sprain the third day of camp Hardison moved to end and is playing both. The 6-3, 315-pound Hardison had been viewed as a project inside, but he’s responded well to playing both.
“He’s a great athlete, big kid, his future looks bright,” Guenther said. “It’s OK (he’s playing both.) The more they understand the better. Playing on the D-line is not all that complicated. Know where you have to be and he’s doing a good job with that.”



I have said all along that I liked Hardison, but that he needed a yaer to get bigger and stronger (especially his base) in order to play DT. Looks like he might get a shot to get some snaps earlier at DE.

[wolfkaosaun]

Hardison is one of my favorite picks from this draft. So much upside and versatility, could be a quality rotational guy and eventually make a push to start years down the line. Would like to see how he looks in preseason games.

[J24]

Always seemed like a gilberry clone from the day we drafted him.

[*SHRacerX*]

He was a converted DE anyways....makes sense

[BFritz21]

No bueno.

I'd love to see him inside, especially on passing downs, because I think he's too quick for one lineman to block and he's building his strength to make it even tougher.

MJ's injury doesn't seem to be serious, so I hope Hardison can get on the field as a NT.

[corpjet]

I think it will take a year or two for him to grasp being a solid DE at this level, look at the history of the position back to when Michael Johnson was a rookie, Carlos D and as recent as last year with Will Clarke. Its difficult to step right in and dominate!

[Benton]

Right now, we need the help more at DT than DE. Hopefully MJ is back on the field and Hardison can provide a few downs inside.

[BFritz21]

(08-10-2015, 10:49 AM)Benton Wrote: Right now, we need the help more at DT than DE. Hopefully MJ is back on the field and Hardison can provide a few downs inside.

True, but you have to think that all the talk of Geno looking like the best player on the field will cure that.

Atkins tore it up with Peko not doing much more than holding his place (which is what a NT is supposed to do), so I'm hoping that Hardison can provide a nice spark and can cause disruption in the middle.

[Benton]

(08-10-2015, 11:20 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: True, but you have to think that all the talk of Geno looking like the best player on the field will cure that.

Atkins tore it up with Peko not doing much more than holding his place (which is what a NT is supposed to do), so I'm hoping that Hardison can provide a nice spark and can cause disruption in the middle.

I hope so. My big concern is we just don't have a lot of depth at some positions and DL is probably the worst. We're stacked on OL. We're fine at CB and S. We're ok at most of the rest. But if Geno or MJ get injured, we're back to no QB pressure this season. I like Hardison. I'm hoping he can get some time rotating in at DT so that if Geno does go down, we're at least in a little better shape than if Hardison is playing for MJ and we have to rely on Still to step up.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2015, 11:53 AM)Benton Wrote: I hope so. My big concern is we just don't have a lot of depth at some positions and DL is probably the worst. We're stacked on OL. We're fine at CB and S. We're ok at most of the rest. But if Geno or MJ get injured, we're back to no QB pressure this season. I like Hardison. I'm hoping he can get some time rotating in at DT so that if Geno does go down, we're at least in a little better shape than if Hardison is playing for MJ and we have to rely on Still to step up.

I'm surprised to hear this. 

The Bengals brought back Pat Sims and MJ.  Both are at least what you would call "upper half" of the league in terms of talent. 

They have Geno, Peko, Brandon Thompson, Still, and now Hardison working at DT.  Thompson has been solid, ditto Peko, and both are better when used on a rotational basis.  Still might be what they hoped for years ago when they took him in the second round now that his mind is clear. 

They have Hunt, Clarke, and Gilberry to rotate in behind Dunlap and the aforementioned MJ at DE.  Gilberry has proven to be very effective when used on a rotational basis and Hunt/Clark have flashed in their brief stints on the field.

Aside from the return of the "rotation" (raise your hands if you saw the Dline fading as the season progressed), which is CRITICAL to the team's success, the biggest thing I like about this squad is there is only one rookie.  Geno, Peko, Sims, Dunlap, MJ, Gilberry, and Thompson all have real game experience.  Hunt and Clark are somewhat inexperienced, but they have made it through a season and both have worked tirelessly to improve their strength and conditioning.  Rookies rarely contribute their first season as a DT.  There are exceptions, but I have seen team after team draft a DT early and plug them in only to see them struggle mightily.  I think, aside from QB, that DT might be the toughest transition from college to pro. 

Only Hardison is a rookie, and the Bengals don't need to count on him for really anything this year.  If he gets opportunities and produces, great.  But he is going to be slowly eased in this year. 

[BFritz21]

(08-10-2015, 12:36 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm surprised to hear this. 

The Bengals brought back Pat Sims and MJ.  Both are at least what you would call "upper half" of the league in terms of talent. 

They have Geno, Peko, Brandon Thompson, Still, and now Hardison working at DT.  Thompson has been solid, ditto Peko, and both are better when used on a rotational basis.  Still might be what they hoped for years ago when they took him in the second round now that his mind is clear. 

They have Hunt, Clarke, and Gilberry to rotate in behind Dunlap and the aforementioned MJ at DE.  Gilberry has proven to be very effective when used on a rotational basis and Hunt/Clark have flashed in their brief stints on the field.

Aside from the return of the "rotation" (raise your hands if you saw the Dline fading as the season progressed), which is CRITICAL to the team's success, the biggest thing I like about this squad is there is only one rookie.  Geno, Peko, Sims, Dunlap, MJ, Gilberry, and Thompson all have real game experience.  Hunt and Clark are somewhat inexperienced, but they have made it through a season and both have worked tirelessly to improve their strength and conditioning.  Rookies rarely contribute their first season as a DT.  There are exceptions, but I have seen team after team draft a DT early and plug them in only to see them struggle mightily.  I think, aside from QB, that DT might be the toughest transition from college to pro. 

Only Hardison is a rookie, and the Bengals don't need to count on him for really anything this year.  If he gets opportunities and produces, great.  But he is going to be slowly eased in this year. 

I keep forgetting about Sims.

That makes Peko's case even weaker for staying on the team, so cut him and put the money towards AJ.

[Benton]

(08-10-2015, 12:36 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm surprised to hear this. 

The Bengals brought back Pat Sims and MJ.  Both are at least what you would call "upper half" of the league in terms of talent. 

They have Geno, Peko, Brandon Thompson, Still, and now Hardison working at DT.  Thompson has been solid, ditto Peko, and both are better when used on a rotational basis.  Still might be what they hoped for years ago when they took him in the second round now that his mind is clear. 

They have Hunt, Clarke, and Gilberry to rotate in behind Dunlap and the aforementioned MJ at DE.  Gilberry has proven to be very effective when used on a rotational basis and Hunt/Clark have flashed in their brief stints on the field.

Aside from the return of the "rotation" (raise your hands if you saw the Dline fading as the season progressed), which is CRITICAL to the team's success, the biggest thing I like about this squad is there is only one rookie.  Geno, Peko, Sims, Dunlap, MJ, Gilberry, and Thompson all have real game experience.  Hunt and Clark are somewhat inexperienced, but they have made it through a season and both have worked tirelessly to improve their strength and conditioning.  Rookies rarely contribute their first season as a DT.  There are exceptions, but I have seen team after team draft a DT early and plug them in only to see them struggle mightily.  I think, aside from QB, that DT might be the toughest transition from college to pro. 

Only Hardison is a rookie, and the Bengals don't need to count on him for really anything this year.  If he gets opportunities and produces, great.  But he is going to be slowly eased in this year. 

To the bold, that's my point. Geno is the only one proven who can provide consistent pressure. If he goes down we're left with Peko (who I think can provide some help, but needs to be in their sparingly now), Thompson (who is good, but not really proven he can play a majority of downs at a high level) and Still (who — through nothing anyone faults him for — hasn't done anything yet).

So, to me, if Geno goes down we're expecting Thompson to provide that kind of production and I don't see it happening. To get any kind of consistent pressure when he's in, I think he'll have to rotate with someone... which is why I hope Hardison is free to use as a DT. Because as much as I like Peko and Still, I don't expect either of them to make much of an impact for us this year.

With the DEs, I feel better about it heading into this season than last. MJ, Dunlap and Gilberry makes me happy. I'm hopeful Clarke develops. Hunt is taking up a spot, but somebody somewhere is trying really hard to make that one work, so we're stuck with a wasted roster spot for another season. But even with them, I dunno if Gilberry and Clarke are enough to step up for a majority of the season if there's an injury. And Hunt I guess could try out at TE. Or something.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Really liked the Hardison pick. Versatile guy that can stop the run and rush the passer.

Kind of a big Frostee Rucker type.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-10-2015, 11:53 AM)Benton Wrote: I hope so. My big concern is we just don't have a lot of depth at some positions and DL is probably the worst. We're stacked on OL. We're fine at CB and S. We're ok at most of the rest. But if Geno or MJ get injured, we're back to no QB pressure this season. I like Hardison. I'm hoping he can get some time rotating in at DT so that if Geno does go down, we're at least in a little better shape than if Hardison is playing for MJ and we have to rely on Still to step up.

Forgetting about Sims and Dunlap here and Will Clarke who can play both DE and DT.

If all the injuries happen that you describe we will be hurting like every team.

But we are much better off this year than we were last season at this time.

And who knows if Hunt starts to show up. We could go from the worst sack team to one of the best.

Dunlap should of had 15+ sacks last season if he could just finish off the QB...

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2015, 01:18 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I keep forgetting about Sims.

That makes Peko's case even weaker for staying on the team, so cut him and put the money towards AJ.

I know a lot of people feel this way about Peko and even Leon Hall, but they both are extremely valuable to the team.  This isn't just leadership, but experience.  Peko is a very effective NT, but was asked to play almost every snap.  He did, but clearly wore down as the season went on. 

I am hopeful that on second and long and anything but third and relatively short that we see variation of the so-called "NASCAR" package of NY Giant fame a few years ago.

Can you imagine a defensive line that would look like this:


Dunlap- Geno- Hunt- MJ

or

Dunlap- Geno - Clarke - MJ

Aside from Adkins, the shortest guy is 6'6.  That would be like throwing through a windmill.  Maybe even give Adkins the occasional break and go:

Dunlap-  Hunt-  Clarke-  MJ

That would be 6'6"  6'8"  6'7" 6'7"

Hilarious.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2015, 01:36 PM)Benton Wrote: To the bold, that's my point. Geno is the only one proven who can provide consistent pressure. If he goes down we're left with Peko (who I think can provide some help, but needs to be in their sparingly now), Thompson (who is good, but not really proven he can play a majority of downs at a high level) and Still (who — through nothing anyone faults him for — hasn't done anything yet).

So, to me, if Geno goes down we're expecting Thompson to provide that kind of production and I don't see it happening. To get any kind of consistent pressure when he's in, I think he'll have to rotate with someone... which is why I hope Hardison is free to use as a DT. Because as much as I like Peko and Still, I don't expect either of them to make much of an impact for us this year.

With the DEs, I feel better about it heading into this season than last. MJ, Dunlap and Gilberry makes me happy. I'm hopeful Clarke develops. Hunt is taking up a spot, but somebody somewhere is trying really hard to make that one work, so we're stuck with a wasted roster spot for another season. But even with them, I dunno if Gilberry and Clarke are enough to step up for a majority of the season if there's an injury. And Hunt I guess could try out at TE. Or something.

I hear ya.  Sims and Thompson aren't known for their pass rush, but they can help collapse the pocket and won't be easily moved.  Especially if Dunlap is double-teamed.  I think we will see more of Hunt and Clarke getting snaps at DT to create some pass rush (and knock down/tip some passes) on passing downs. 

I guess a lot of it will boil down to a few things:

1.) Geno being the pre-injury Geno
2.) Hunt and Clarke becoming consistent contributors
3.) Dunlap and MJ's ability to get to the QB
4.) Overall health which contributes to the rotational ability

I think Brandon Thompson is a guy to watch out for this season.  If he and even just one of Clarke/Hunt step it up this year, the defense is going to be very, very good.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2015, 01:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Forgetting about Sims and Dunlap here and Will Clarke who can play both DE and DT.

If all the injuries happen that you describe we will be hurting like every team.

But we are much better off this year than we were last season at this time.

And who knows if Hunt starts to show up. We could go from the worst sack team to one of the best.

Dunlap should of had 15+ sacks last season if he could just finish off the QB...

Agreed.  I think Buffalo led the NFL (or was close) in sacks and their back 4 are not nearly as good as Cincinnati's.  There should be some great synergy between the secondary locking down the receivers and the Dline getting to the QB.

[djs7685]

(08-10-2015, 03:05 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know a lot of people feel this way about Peko and even Leon Hall, but they both are extremely valuable to the team.  This isn't just leadership, but experience.  Peko is a very effective NT, but was asked to play almost every snap.  He did, but clearly wore down as the season went on. 

I am hopeful that on second and long and anything but third and relatively short that we see variation of the so-called "NASCAR" package of NY Giant fame a few years ago.

Can you imagine a defensive line that would look like this:

Dunlap- Geno- Hunt- MJ

or

Dunlap- Geno - Clarke - MJ

Aside from Adkins, the shortest guy is 6'6.  That would be like throwing through a windmill.  Maybe even give Adkins the occasional break and go:

Dunlap-  Hunt-  Clarke-  MJ

That would be 6'6"  6'8"  6'7" 6'7"

Hilarious.

Agreed that Peko and Hall should remain on the team for at least this season, but both should see a reduced role.

Hunt just isn't a very good football player, hopefully he magically transforms into one before he hits 30. I won't hold my breath, he isn't even guaranteed a roster spot this year.

We haven't seen anything from Clarke to get excited about, so I don't know why people throw him into a lineup assuming we should be excited about that. I'll give him another year or so before writing him off as a bust, but I don't think he's going to be a great player overnight. Most people seem to be realistic about it but some are way overestimating what Clarke will likely be bringing to the table in 2015.

Geno's last name is Atkins.

[XenoMorph]

(08-10-2015, 11:20 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: True, but you have to think that all the talk of Geno looking like the best player on the field will cure that.

Atkins tore it up with Peko not doing much more than holding his place (which is what a NT is supposed to do), so I'm hoping that Hardison can provide a nice spark and can cause disruption in the middle.

but he cant play every snap... And we have Hardison listed as a DT now With Gilberry and Will Clarke also @ RDE with MJ

DTs were weak last year we should see some turn over there.... but there is an undrafted rookie being compared to Atkins in our camp as well. And while i like peko. I dont think you can just hand him a spot if these young guys are looking better and can contribute more snaps if needed. Our D is grown up enough to have more than 1 leader.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2015, 03:20 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Agreed that Peko and Hall should remain on the team for at least this season, but both should see a reduced role.

Hunt just isn't a very good football player, hopefully he magically transforms into one before he hits 30. I won't hold my breath, he isn't even guaranteed a roster spot this year.

We haven't seen anything from Clarke to get excited about, so I don't know why people throw him into a lineup assuming we should be excited about that. I'll give him another year or so before writing him off as a bust, but I don't think he's going to be a great player overnight. Most people seem to be realistic about it but some are way overestimating what Clarke will likely be bringing to the table in 2015.

Geno's last name is Atkins.

The truth is we don't really know what kind of football player Hunt is at this point.  He was amazing in college and he seemed to be getting better with each game.  I don't think it is fair to write him off with his two injury-riddled seasons.  I wish they would leave him at LDE and have him rotate with Dunlap, although he is also intriguing as a DT on passing downs. 

Clarke did a lot of work in the offseason and seems to have the desire to get some more snaps.  I like what I have seen albeit in very limited action.  I think the added weight and strength can only help him at least in run support.