Do we pass up drafting a QB in this years draft?

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-26-2017, 09:35 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: In this years draft I don't think we should pass up drafting a QB. Wyoming's Josh Allen has a skill set different from any qb in this draft. He has GREAT pocket awareness. Something Andy lacks. He also has a cannon arm and isn't afraid to trust his receivers, he's a gunslinger, unlike Andy. This could be our future QB  that we should not pass up. We need to groom someone now behind Andy and let Andy start until he loses the job. We should draft Allen in the late first or 2nd. To me he looks like a mix between Ben Roethlisberger, and Phillip River with Brett Favres arm. Very fun to watch. Out of all QB's Allen has caught my eye the most. This guy would get us over the hump in the playoffs. He's a winner and talks to his teammates. I would actually take this guy with our top 10 pick if he is ranked that high in the draft..If we are taking a lineman in the 1st Round it had better be Orlando Brown if anyone. Orlando is a good tackle but not a great one, but he would be our best option if we took a lineman. I would not pass up on Allen he looks like a franchise QB that we can be forsure about.

https://youtu.be/QTuKHNz9vbA

Josh Allen actually has bad pocket awareness and doesn't have a good feel for it either. He's not a polished player and leaves a ton of plays on the field. He also has major accuracy issues.

When watching him in the pocket, his accuracy is much better. However, once on the move at all, he's very erratic and makes not only questionable decisions but bad, inaccurate throws.

Allen has arm talent, that's for sure. But his footwork needs major work. If he doesn't improve that aspect of his game, he's going to get eaten alive.

There's absolutely nothing "for sure" about Allen. He has a ton of potential rather than production. Often guys who struggle with accuracy in college continue to do so in the pros.

If he's in the pocket, he's usually very good. But being on the move at all, he struggles tremendously.

He's someone who needs to be coached up and won't start day 1. In fact, his play is VERY similar to that of Paxton Lynch from college.

Give me Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson all above Allen.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-26-2017, 10:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don not think we need to go in looking for QB, but I will say for the first time in 7 years if QB is BPA, I hope we make the move.

I agree. Would prefer other fixes and concentrate on QB next draft...  but if BPA is QB then by all means.

I don't want to see them reaching for it though.

[bengalsturntup926]

(Crying ) NOOOOOO NOOOO PLEASE NO LORD GOD NOOOOO DON'T TAKE OUR LORD DALTON AWAY PLEAAASE NOOOOOO ,IT'S NOT HIS FAULT IT'S NOT HIS FAULT IT'S NOT HIS FAULT ,NOOOOOO GODDD WHHHHHYYYYY

[Benton]

(12-26-2017, 10:27 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Since 2009, only 5 quarterbacks drafted in the first 2 rounds have won a playoff game. Only one of them is currently a starter in the NFL; Cam Newton.
The other 4 are Mark Sanchez, Tim Tebow, Colin Kaepernick, and Andrew Luck.

No quarterback drafted from 2013 on has won a playoff game as a starter.

Drafting a quarterback does not automatically fix everything and get us over he hump.

Is it possible? Absolutely. But it's not as cut and dry as fans like to believe.

An outstanding point.

Depending on what happens with AJM, we most likely will be taking a QB at some point this season or next, but it's doubtful they replace Andy. If Marvin stays, we're rolling with Andy. If a new coach comes in, it's doubtful he's going to have enough picks to rebuild the OL, pick up a couple defensive pieces AND draft a QB he plans to start. And, honestly, at this point, if you think a QB — especially any QB coming out of college — is going to do much with this crap line, I'll sell you some ocean front property up in Cleveland.

[McC]

(12-26-2017, 10:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don not think we need to go in looking for QB, but I will say for the first time in 7 years if QB is BPA, I hope we make the move.

This is exactly how I see it.  

[CJD]

It's uncomfortable to me how few of Bill Parcells' rules he hits.

He isn't a senior, he isn't a 3 year starter, he doesn't have 23 wins and he has not completely 60% of his passes.

Not to mention he didn't even go to a major college program that saw any significant amount of potential pro competition.

He hasn't even really blown away the game in terms of any kind of metric.

They aren't concrete guidelines, but the fact that he doesn't hit a single one bothers me.

He'd be a draft pick based 100% on potential. And his bust potential is sky high.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-26-2017, 10:27 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Since 2009, only 5 quarterbacks drafted in the first 2 rounds have won a playoff game. Only one of them is currently a starter in the NFL; Cam Newton.
The other 4 are Mark Sanchez, Tim Tebow, Colin Kaepernick, and Andrew Luck.

No quarterback drafted from 2013 on has won a playoff game as a starter.

Drafting a quarterback does not automatically fix everything and get us over he hump.

Is it possible? Absolutely. But it's not as cut and dry as fans like to believe.

Very true, but look at the QBs that have played in Super Bowls in recent years:

Brady - anomoly, but 6th round.
Wilson - 3rd round
Rodgers  -1st round
Ryan - 1st round (top 5)
Big Ben - 1st round
Flacco - 1st round
Kap - 2nd round
Manning - 1st overall
Manning - 1st overall
Newton - 1st overall

While there are a ton of other reasons why teams win, it seems that having a 1st rounder is a common theme.

[t3r3e3]

(12-26-2017, 10:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It all depends on if the new HC feels like he can work with Andy, or if he needs to start from scratch.

Personally, I feel like whomever the new HC is, will feel like Andy is an experienced veteran that is easy on the salary cap; Why not fix the rest of the team first?

Seems to me like too many "fans" of this team, are getting Clevelanditis...

No doubt. The needs for next year’s draft are: LT, C, RG, LB, S, TE, and DT. QB doesn’t enter into the mix, especially if McCarron is back.

[Nati#1]

(12-26-2017, 10:43 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Josh Allen actually has bad pocket awareness and doesn't have a good feel for it either. He's not a polished player and leaves a ton of plays on the field. He also has major accuracy issues.

When watching him in the pocket, his accuracy is much better. However, once on the move at all, he's very erratic and makes not only questionable decisions but bad, inaccurate throws.

Allen has arm talent, that's for sure. But his footwork needs major work. If he doesn't improve that aspect of his game, he's going to get eaten alive.

There's absolutely nothing "for sure" about Allen. He has a ton of potential rather than production. Often guys who struggle with accuracy in college continue to do so in the pros.

If he's in the pocket, he's usually very good. But being on the move at all, he struggles tremendously.

He's someone who needs to be coached up and won't start day 1. In fact, his play is VERY similar to that of Paxton Lynch from college.

Give me Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson all above Allen.

Most of his throws are on the run rolling out.

[*Synric*]

Another Big QB with "escapibility" and "Arm Talent" but is wildly inaccurate on most throws. DeShone Kizer anyone?

Pass.

[Pat5775]

(12-26-2017, 10:43 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Josh Allen actually has bad pocket awareness and doesn't have a good feel for it either. He's not a polished player and leaves a ton of plays on the field. He also has major accuracy issues.

When watching him in the pocket, his accuracy is much better. However, once on the move at all, he's very erratic and makes not only questionable decisions but bad, inaccurate throws.

Allen has arm talent, that's for sure. But his footwork needs major work. If he doesn't improve that aspect of his game, he's going to get eaten alive.

There's absolutely nothing "for sure" about Allen. He has a ton of potential rather than production. Often guys who struggle with accuracy in college continue to do so in the pros.

If he's in the pocket, he's usually very good. But being on the move at all, he struggles tremendously.

He's someone who needs to be coached up and won't start day 1. In fact, his play is VERY similar to that of Paxton Lynch from college.

Give me Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson all above Allen.

Jackson too? 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

IFF — that’s how mathematicians write “if and only if” — the most amazing quarterback falls to the Bengals in Round Five or later, sure. Make that move...

...but this team has far more pressing needs. If it were up to me I would pick the best offensive lineman available in every single round and replace the current line with un-Bengalized rookies who still know how to block.

[McC]

(12-27-2017, 08:38 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: IFF — that’s how mathematicians write “if and only if” — the most amazing quarterback falls to the Bengals in Round Five or later, sure.  Make that move...

...but this team has far more pressing needs.  If it were up to me I would pick the best offensive lineman available in every single round and replace the current line with un-Bengalized rookies who still know how to block.

I don't know if I'd go that far.  We also have need at LB and we could really use a FS.

[bengals67]

(12-26-2017, 10:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don not think we need to go in looking for QB, but I will say for the first time in 7 years if QB is BPA, I hope we make the move.

Unfortunately ( because I think Andy is a great person) I have to agree

what would really be nice is to sign a center and tackle in free agency and then take a QB if he is BPA.

They really need to sign some free agents this year if there is any chance for next year.

[Sweetness]

(12-27-2017, 01:08 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It's uncomfortable to me how few of Bill Parcells' rules he hits.

He isn't a senior, he isn't a 3 year starter, he doesn't have 23 wins and he has not completely 60% of his passes.

Not to mention he didn't even go to a major college program that saw any significant amount of potential pro competition.

He hasn't even really blown away the game in terms of any kind of metric.

They aren't concrete guidelines, but the fact that he doesn't hit a single one bothers me.

He'd be a draft pick based 100% on potential. And his bust potential is sky high.

This. I didn't watch him much at all outside of his bowl game, where he looked exceedingly average. Looks like a kid who is still living off a good sophomore season and then regressed his Junior year. A QB in a terrible conference with 56% completion rating? Are you kidding me people? Did you guys even look up this kids stats this year? He wasn't good at all. If you are a top QB you carry your team to a good record, see Big Ben at Miami. He can't even carry his team to wins in a terrible conference but we think he's going to somehow carry us to a super bowl? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-27-2017, 11:15 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Unfortunately ( because I think Andy is a great person) I have to agree

what would really be nice is to sign a center and tackle in free agency and then take a QB if he is BPA.

They really need to sign some free agents this year if there is any chance for next year.

This.  Allen is intriguing, but needs polish.  If we can snag him at the right time, he's a perfect candidate to sit and learn.....providing we get a competent staff to bring him along.

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-27-2017, 03:00 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Very true, but look at the QBs that have played in Super Bowls in recent years:

Brady - anomoly, but 6th round.
Wilson - 3rd round
Rodgers  -1st round
Ryan - 1st round (top 5)
Big Ben - 1st round
Flacco - 1st round
Kap - 2nd round
Manning - 1st overall
Manning - 1st overall
Newton - 1st overall

While there are a ton of other reasons why teams win, it seems that having a 1st rounder is a common theme.

Correct. But 6 of those 7 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were drafted from 1999-2008.
There's been only one Super Bowl winning quarterback drafted since 2009, and that was in the 3rd round.

A consistent: 2012 was the ONLY year since 2003 where we didn't have a Super Bowl that has Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Big Ben playing in it.

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-27-2017, 05:45 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: Most of his throws are on the run rolling out.

And those throws are very off target and inaccurate. He also makes bad decisions.

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-27-2017, 08:27 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Jackson too? 

Easily. And it's not even close.

Granted, Jackson does have some issues as well. He does have accuracy issues early in some games and has to "get hot/get into a rhythm".

But he was also his team's entire offense and got little help.

Over the last 2 years, his receivers have dropped 67 passes. His passes are dropped 8.5% this year.

Here are some comparable stats:

Jackson's passes are dropped 8.5% of the time. Josh Allen? 4.8%

Under pressure, Jackson has a QB rating of 92.6.
Josh Allen has a QB rating of 56.1.

Even with the dropped passes, Jackson has a higher completion percentage than Allen. Along with 12 more passing touchdowns. They both had 6 INTs though.

It wouldn't be fair to Allen to throw in Jackson's rushing ability, to be honest.

[*bfine32*]

(12-27-2017, 03:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Correct. But 6 of those 7 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were drafted from 1999-2008.
There's been only one Super Bowl winning quarterback drafted since 2009, and that was in the 3rd round.

A consistent: 2012 was the ONLY year since 2003 where we didn't have a Super Bowl that has Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Big Ben playing in it.

Well we currently don't have an elite old QB on the roster, so we might want to try and get a young one. Unless you are really trying to say that if folks want to win Super Bowls they shouldn't draft elite QB prospects.