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(01-05-2018, 10:59 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I could support Austin as a candidate for DC. Disciplinarian personality is most definitely a plus, as we have seen how relaxed things have become under the laid back style of Paul Guenther. Does anyone agree with me that the playoff meltdown versus Pittsburgh would not have occurred under Zimmer's watch?
The rest of the list has some interesting names. Obviously Del Rio and Spagnoula are the well known personalities. However, if there is any truth to the notion of transitioning to a 3-4 scheme, I would think that Vic Fangio would move to the top of the list. His defenses in SF were some serious wrecking crews.
Never said it on the board but agree 100% with you on the playoff meltdown.
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(01-05-2018, 11:52 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Zimmers defenses here during his time and playoff games wasn't exactly stellar.
I'm talking about keeping players like Burfict and 'Pac-Man' in line.
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If Zimmer was here for the 2015 playoff meltdown he would have had a stroke right there on the field.
Everything in this post is my fault.
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(01-05-2018, 11:53 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Never said it on the board but agree 100% with you on the playoff meltdown.
Well, when you have a "player's coach" like Marvin as your HC, someone else has to be the one to crack the whip. Personality is just as, if not more important, in some cases, as Xs and Os.
A DC may be able to draw up the most brilliant schemes with exotic blitzes and disguised coverages, but it won't be worth a damn if he can't get the players to properly execute it on the field.
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(01-05-2018, 11:49 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Before we destroy what his defense finished at look at the players he was working with a lot of rookies and had a ton of turnovers....(something we don't get a lot of around here anymore)
I think it was 3rd in turnovers this year
His D finished 3rd his first year then they started losing star power like Suh
I was pretty much saying/thinking the same. I'm not stoked about it, but I haven't really done any research yet either. Coaches definitely need good players to have success. Thanks for the info Xeno!
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(01-05-2018, 12:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, when you have a "player's coach" like Marvin as your HC, someone else has to be the one to crack the whip. Personality is just as, if not more important, in some cases, as Xs and Os.
A DC may be able to draw up the most brilliant schemes with exotic blitzes and disguised coverages, but it won't be worth a damn if he can't get the players to properly execute it on the field.
That's a fact Jack!
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(01-05-2018, 12:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, when you have a "player's coach" like Marvin as your HC, someone else has to be the one to crack the whip. Personality is just as, if not more important, in some cases, as Xs and Os.
A DC may be able to draw up the most brilliant schemes with exotic blitzes and disguised coverages, but it won't be worth a damn if he can't get the players to properly execute it on the field.
Which is true; the only guy on the defensive side who cracks whips, is Burney.
Which unit played the best this year?
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Guenther seemed to start out pretty good, but as time, injuries and player and coaching turnover happened the whole defense seemed to stall. It felt like if Burfict wasn't playing any particular game we might as well just forfeit and not try. That's a bit oversimplified, but it's how it feels like to me. He was never able to get the best out of marginal players which is where Zimmer excelled ..Once our best players got injured the pooch was already screwed..Guenther never seemed to have a backup plan.
The ideal replacement will be able to take guys directly off the streets and get them in shape for gameday in short order. Guenther is the type who needs great players right off the bat and a solid supporting cast always ready to go instead of getting the best of cast offs.. I guess the question is can Austin get marginal players to excell?
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Well id say a big negative is he sometimes has trouble counting to 11
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(01-05-2018, 12:51 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: if he is so cheap, how is Marvin being paid close to top ten in coaching ?? MB actually pays coaches pretty well the problem is he keeps his staffs and scouts probably below the average number of coaches...
Marvin Lewis is the second longest tenured coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belicheck.
Being near the top 10 in a 32 team league means he's in the above average range.
So if you did you job second longest and had the second most experience, but weren't paid in the top few but rather just above average, does that tell you anything?
Also, Mike Brown goes psychotic if anyone ever mentions changing anything.
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The D was this teams backbone. People put up with bad years from the Offense and OC but the Defense has one bad year and they replace the system.
If you asked Bengals fans before the end of the season if one side of the ball got the full makeover and the other side remained pretty much the same. None of us would have guessed it would be the D.
If any side of the ball got the full makeover, it should have been the Offense. Either everyone should have went, or at the very least after a year like this the Offense should have been revamped.
And I don't want to hear Lazor wasn't able to do his thing. He took over after the 4th day of the season, and had 3 months to adjust the Offense to reflect his vision (longer than ota's, minicamp, and training camp). That line is Fake News. He's been here 2 years, and knew the personnel. Still couldn't adjust to "his system" in 3 months. This is the same excuse he was given by Dolphins fans when he took over "mid year", and his first full year as OC ended in disaster.
I don't mind a revamped D. Paulie didn't care about giving up yards, just points allowed. So if you think we needed a system change then I'm okay with that. Redo the D, but no way should the D be the only thing that changed when the smoke clears. And it looks like it will be.
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(01-05-2018, 11:52 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Zimmers defenses here during his time and playoff games wasn't exactly stellar.
Zimmer coached a lot of guys up and basically redefined a lot of careers.
" Zimmer was named the defensive coordinator for the Cincinnati Bengals on January 15, 2008. In 2009, Zimmer earned NFL Assistant Coach of the Year honors from Pro Football Weekly/Pro Football Writers and from CBSSports.com,[3] after guiding the Bengals to the 4th ranked defense in the league. In 2011, the Bengals finished with the 7th ranked defense in total yards and 9th ranked defense in points allowed.
In 2012, the Bengals finished with the 6th ranked defense in total yards and 8th ranked defense in points allowed"
2009 - 4th best defense
2011 - 7th
2012 - 6th
Im sorry but that is damn impressive.
2009 draft class - Rey Maualuga , Michael Johnson both of which were good players for this team
2010 draft class - Carlos Dunlap , Geno Atkins
2011 draft - Dontay Moch (used steroids and had migraines which effectively ended his career) , Robert Sands ( good prospect who got injured and released )
2012 - George Iloka , Dre Kirk , Brandon Thompson , Devon still was the big disappointment of the class, but his priorities changed after his daughter came down with cancer.
2013 - Worst draft class ever for defense ?
All things considered I would consider Zimmer to be one of the best coaches in this teams history and his success with the vikings is not a big surprise.
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Are we all are forgetting who the HC is here? To me, it isn't going to matter who we get as DC, as long as the HC is unwilling to change his defensive philosophy. In his presser he was asked, "Are you going to be more aggressive" and his typical Lewis response was, "I don't know what aggressive means"....
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(01-05-2018, 01:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: The D was this teams backbone. People put up with bad ears form the Offense and OC but the Defense has one bad year and they replace the system.
If you asked Bengals fans before the end of the season if one side of the ball got the full makeover and the other side remained pretty much the same. None of us would have guessed it would be the D.
If any side of the ball got the full makeover, it should have been the Offense. Either everyone should have went, or at the very least after a year like this the Offense should have been revamped.
And I don't want to hear Lazor wasn't able to do his thing. He took over after the 4th day of the season, and had 3 months to adjust the Offense to reflect his vision (longer than ota's, minicamp, and training camp). That line is Fake News.
I don't mind a revamped D. Paulie didn't care about giving up yards, just points allowed. So if you think we needed a system change then I'm okay with that. Redo the D, but no way should the D be the only thing that changed when the smoke clears. And it looks like it will be.
Lets not forget that a big change is coming to offensive line with Alexander out. He was one of the longest tenured coaches in the teams history and we will undoubtedly address needs. My big hope is that we stop trying to use andy dalton like a star quarterback and let Mixon/Gio flourish behind a strong run first Oline.
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(01-05-2018, 01:13 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Are we all are forgetting who the HC is here? To me, it isn't going to matter who we get as DC, as long as the HC is unwilling to change his defensive philosophy. In his presser he was asked, "Are you going to be more aggressive" and his typical Lewis response was, "I don't know what aggressive means"....
He doesn't know what aggressive means lmao. He's been hearing the word for years but never had time to look it up in a dictionary
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(01-05-2018, 01:11 PM)Okeana Wrote: Zimmer coached a lot of guys up and basically redefined a lot of careers.
"Zimmer was named the defensive coordinator for the Cincinnati Bengals on January 15, 2008. In 2009, Zimmer earned NFL Assistant Coach of the Year honors from Pro Football Weekly/Pro Football Writers and from CBSSports.com,[3] after guiding the Bengals to the 4th ranked defense in the league. In 2011, the Bengals finished with the 7th ranked defense in total yards and 9th ranked defense in points allowed.
In 2012, the Bengals finished with the 6th ranked defense in total yards and 8th ranked defense in points allowed"
2009 - 4th best defense
2011 - 7th
2012 - 6th
Im sorry but that is damn impressive.
2009 draft class - Rey Maualuga , Michael Johnson both of which were good players for this team
2010 draft class - Carlos Dunlap , Geno Atkins
2011 draft - Dontay Moch (used steroids and had migraines which effectively ended his career) , Robert Sands ( good prospect who got injured and released )
2012 - George Iloka , Dre Kirk , Brandon Thompson , Devon still was the big disappointment of the class, but his priorities changed after his daughter came down with cancer.
2013 - Worst draft class ever for defense ?
All things considered I would consider Zimmer to be one of the best coaches in this teams history and his success with the vikings is not a big surprise.
Yeah but we got ran all over in the playoffs was what my post was about
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(01-05-2018, 01:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yeah but we got ran all over in the playoffs was what my post was about
I have never understood why that was hard for people to understand?
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(01-05-2018, 10:59 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I could support Austin as a candidate for DC. Disciplinarian personality is most definitely a plus, as we have seen how relaxed things have become under the laid back style of Paul Guenther. Does anyone agree with me that the playoff meltdown versus Pittsburgh would not have occurred under Zimmer's watch?
The rest of the list has some interesting names. Obviously Del Rio and Spagnoula are the well known personalities. However, if there is any truth to the notion of transitioning to a 3-4 scheme, I would think that Vic Fangio would move to the top of the list. His defenses in SF were some serious wrecking crews.
You are probably right. Remember the scene in Hard Knocks when Guenther was still a linebackers coach and he meekly asked James Harrison to do something? I suspect Zimmer would have gotten in Harrison’s face.
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(01-05-2018, 12:59 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Marvin Lewis is the second longest tenured coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belicheck.
Being near the top 10 in a 32 team league means he's in the above average range.
So if you did you job second longest and had the second most experience, but weren't paid in the top few but rather just above average, does that tell you anything?
Also, Mike Brown goes psychotic if anyone ever mentions changing anything.
You still never presented any factual evidence that he pays coaches cheap, actually help my argument since we have such long-standing coaches those coaches are getting paid more than if he would have let them go and hire new people through the years,
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It'll never happen, but Jim Leonhard (Wisconsin DC) would be an intriguing hire. Very much a roll of the dice though, and a position coach would be a more apt starting job for him.
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