WHERE DID MARVIN GO WRONG?

[whodey1967]

THIS IS NOT A POST CONCERNING MIKE BROWN...WE ALL KNOW HIS ROLE AND WHERE HE WENT WRONG...

We all know how ML came to Cincy and changed the entire atmosphere of the city, fan base, players, and team successes within a couple of years. It has been a roller coaster since, but up until a couple of years ago most fans were content with getting to the playoffs every 2 years (on avg), but the last 2 years have gone terribly wrong.
So where did it go wrong? What changed to make everything go south?

[BrownAssClown]

I know you don't want Mike Brown mentioned here but I think where Marvin Lewis failed was the fact that he could not and most likely will not overcome how this organization is ran by ownership.

[Interceptor]

(01-05-2018, 08:13 PM)whodey1967 Wrote: THIS IS NOT A POST CONCERNING MIKE BROWN...WE ALL KNOW HIS ROLE AND WHERE HE WENT WRONG...

We all know how ML came to Cincy and changed the entire atmosphere of the city, fan base, players, and team successes within a couple of years. It has been a roller coaster since, but up until a couple of years ago most fans were content with getting to the playoffs every 2 years (on avg), but the last 2 years have gone terribly wrong.
So where did it go wrong? What changed to make everything go south?

Well, for every playoff game he did the opposite from what got them into the playoffs.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-05-2018, 08:18 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I know you don't want Mike Brown mentioned here but I think where Marvin Lewis failed was the fact that he could not and most likely will not overcome how this organization is ran by ownership.

^This.  You really can't have a conversation about Marvin's failings without bringing constraints by the ownership into the conversation.  

Sure, we can all nitpick about Marv's in game decisions and such, but we all know that the real problems lie way above our paygrade to be having any impact in the discussion.

[Shake n Blake]

1. Paul Alexander, his hand-selected busts and poor run blocking scheme.

2. Zampese was a weak and lazy hire.

3. The soft zone isn't working as well as it used to. Not enough consistent pressure from the front 4, and no Reggie Nelson.

[Dark-Net-Axon]

(01-05-2018, 08:18 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I know you don't want Mike Brown mentioned here but I think where Marvin Lewis failed was the fact that he could not and most likely will not overcome how this organization is ran by ownership.

Lewis is directly responsible for having the team well-prepared, for assuring proper adjustments are made, for holding players accountable and when failures occur in those areas, which they have far too many times, that's ultimately a sign of his lack of leadership and coaching prowess.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-05-2018, 08:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Paul Alexander, his hand-selected busts and poor run blocking scheme.

2. Zampese was a weak and lazy hire.

3. The soft zone isn't working as well as it used to. Not enough consistent pressure from the front 4, and no Reggie Nelson.

The first two things that you list can likely be attributed directly to the Mgt.  The last one, we can likely talk about.

The soft zone is something that many of us have been peeved about, for a while.  Ever since Paul took over for Mike, sure it worked with Reggie Nelson in the mix, but once he's gone, you have to evolve past.  PG certainly did not.  Personally, I'm almost as thankful that he's gone as PA.  Could Marvin have done more?  Likely so.  Did he?  Evidently not.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-05-2018, 08:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The first two things that you list can likely be attributed directly to the Mgt.  The last one, we can likely talk about.

The soft zone is something that many of us have been peeved about, for a while.  Ever since Paul took over for Mike, sure it worked with Reggie Nelson in the mix, but once he's gone, you have to evolve past.  PG certainly did not.  Personally, I'm almost as thankful that he's gone as PA.  Could Marvin have done more?  Likely so.  Did he?  Evidently not.

For a defensive expert, I've never felt like Marv has helped the defense. The D was weak in the pre-Zim days, and Guenther just kept what Zimmer had going, although to a slightly less successful degree. I'm worried that a mediocre candidate like Austin will lead us to more pre-Zimmer-like results.

On the flip side, I think Marv's defensive mindset and conservative nature have handcuffed the offense.

[kevin]

(01-05-2018, 08:18 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I know you don't want Mike Brown mentioned here but I think where Marvin Lewis failed was the fact that he could not and most likely will not overcome how this organization is ran by ownership.

I too will mention Mike Brown since Mike Brown demands to be mentioned.  This team started 8-0 and was looking very Super Bowl until Dalton was injured in yet another Bengals vs Steelers injury riddled game.  Mike Brown let Marvin Jones and Sanu both go after that season leaving no receivers to take their place.  To this day in Jan 2018 they have yet to be replaced as the youth has failed greatly.  Mike Brown the next off season let both Zeitler and Whitworth go, leaving no blockers to replace them as the youth failed greatly.  ....I say no coaches could have won under such awful front office cheap moves.  No coach in NFL could have lost pass catchers such as Jones and Sanu and blockers Zeitler and Whitworth and not went backwards from the team that started 8-0 in 2015 before these last 2 off seasons of blunders by Mike Brown. 

So in saying this is not a Mike Brown thread and to focus on Coach Lewis, I agree with this poster it is impossible to ask WHAT WENT WRONG without the words MIKE BROWN since in fact it truly was MIKE BROWN that WENT WRONG.  I'm totally amazed Bengals went 7-9 this season because Mike Browns moves should have caused 0 to 4 win season.  Getting 7 wins out of this team may have been far better coaching than it takes to get a good solid team to the Super Bowl.  If Mike Brown would have kept Whitworth and either Jones OR Sanu, the team that started 8-0 would not have fallen to 6 wins and 7-9. I again say 7-9 is great coaching considering Mike Browns moves should have resulted in 0-16 to 4-12. MIKE BROWN IS WHERE THE TEAM WENT WRONG.

[Goalpost]

He doesn't win big games. He has a decent overall record, but when it comes to primetime or playoffs, it falls apart.

[HarleyDog]

Marvin had the life sucked out of him here. This is why he wanted to exit in 2010. He was a great coach. Sure, his clock Mgmt skills suck and he is extreme left on the discipline side. However, there was a time players played for him. Now? Not so much. I think he was promised changes in 2010 that never came to pass. He continued on, with pride, thinking he could still do it despite MB and the challenges he faced. However, he woke up and realized 15yrs of his life had gone and he has a horrible resume of failure when it counted. His legacy would bring crows feet and scowls to fans when his name was mentioned. Will next year be any different? I could easily get a chubby if I even had a mustard seed of faith it could. However, MB is still MB.

There's no way to say what happened to Marvin without having MB mentioned. BTW, Good to have you back 67! Really missed you.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-05-2018, 08:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For a defensive expert, I've never felt like Marv has helped the defense. The D was weak in the pre-Zim days, and Guenther just kept what Zimmer had going, although to a slightly less successful degree. I'm worried that a mediocre candidate like Austin will lead us to more pre-Zimmer-like results.

On the flip side, I think Marv's defensive mindset and conservative nature have handcuffed the offense.

Good point.  Perhaps the only explanation that I can think of is that being HC of the Bengals requires much more time devoted to managerial duties than HCs of other teams?  He is in a unique sort of position, on a very unique franchise (by most modern standards).

But, even at that, I would think that he would have time to speak with coaches during meetings.  You know, delegate what he wants to see done with the respective units.  That is a very interesting question that you bring up.

[whodey1967]

Dammit to hell...I knew you guys couldn't keep Mike Brown out of the discussion. Haha

[BrownAssClown]

(01-05-2018, 08:31 PM)Dark-Net-Axon Wrote: Lewis is directly responsible for having the team well-prepared, for assuring proper adjustments are made, for holding players accountable and when failures occur in those areas, which they have far too many times, that's ultimately a sign of his lack of leadership and coaching prowess.

All of what you posted is completely true and the way ownership runs the business end it's surprising Lewis has a winning record in his 15 years here.

[Benton]

He starts every game with: "Go out there and dont make a highlight reel mistake!"

I swear, we were solid when we were transitioning from Frazier's players to Zimmers and had a solid mix of big play guys and dependable veterans. Same with the offense and a mix of guys like Ocho with reliable offensive pieces. Now, it's like we've got no pop.

[BengalsRocker]

I dunno...

You tell me that getting stuck with this mouth breather as your "assistant HC" wouldn't derail you just a bit?



Not pinning it all on PA but damn that's gotta bug the crap out of anyone.

Not only did that guy suck at his job but got the highest in house promotion for it.

Marvin letting Mike have his way by forcing this lackey on him was a straight up whimpy ass move.

So by example here...

I'd say that Marvin being passive Marvin is where HE went wrong.

Between being soft with players and soft with management he screwed himself.

Also when better coaches and coordinators that made him look good left. He didn't look so frickin' good.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Marvin plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. You can’t take your foot off the gas in the modern NFL. Just ask the Falcons after last year’s SB. The league is just too geared towards offense (particularly the passing game) for that kind of mentality.

[McC]

(01-05-2018, 08:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For a defensive expert, I've never felt like Marv has helped the defense. The D was weak in the pre-Zim days, and Guenther just kept what Zimmer had going, although to a slightly less successful degree. I'm worried that a mediocre candidate like Austin will lead us to more pre-Zimmer-like results.

On the flip side, I think Marv's defensive mindset and conservative nature have handcuffed the offense.

First and foremost, Marvin has only been as good or as bad as his coordinators.  He had two great years, '05, '15, both brought down by injuries.

There's only been one season where Marvin has been aces on both sides of the ball.  In '05, the defense was not really that great but they did have the amazing turnover season.  Then Carson and Co. would make teams pay.  But the defense was not a SB defense.

The '15 team was his best all around, I would say.  But they still didn't run the ball like '05.

Marvin, in all these years, has never really been able to assemble the team he really wants.  He wants the 2000 Ravens.

And that brings me to what I believe is his downfall.  It's a thing he shares with his boss--arrogant, misguided stubbornness, wrongly believing you are the smartest guy in the room.

[chopperbobby]

How can you say he failed. He is the 2nd longest tenured coach in the nfl. He fails to meet expectations but still continues to keep his job. So I think career wise his is a huge success. Even coaches who have won playoff games and superbowles have lost there jobs after some bad years. No playoff wins and he keeps getting extended. So I say great job Marvin. He has done what many can’t do. Keep his job in the nfl for as long as he has.

Who Dey.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-05-2018, 08:13 PM)whodey1967 Wrote: THIS IS NOT A POST CONCERNING MIKE BROWN...WE ALL KNOW HIS ROLE AND WHERE HE WENT WRONG...

We all know how ML came to Cincy and changed the entire atmosphere of the city, fan base, players, and team successes within a couple of years. It has been a roller coaster since, but up until a couple of years ago most fans were content with getting to the playoffs every 2 years (on avg), but the last 2 years have gone terribly wrong.
So where did it go wrong? What changed to make everything go south?

Where is went wrong is just that Marv doesn't have what it takes to get the troops to the top of the hill. Assembling a talented team, yes. He just doesn't have the ability (and as much as this isn't a MB thread) due to his own shortcomings or others, to complete the task.