Are Ogbuehi and Bodine salvageable under Pollack?

[SunsetBengal]

(01-12-2018, 01:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think "Bear" is a better nickname given his emphasis on mauling in the run game. No?

Maybe the man will simply earn our respect enough from his coaching skills that we won't feel the need to give him some cheesy nickname?

We'll all just have reverence in our voices when we speak of Coach Pollack.  

[Sled21]

(01-12-2018, 01:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Maybe the man will simply earn our respect enough from his coaching skills that we won't feel the need to give him some cheesy nickname?

This....... so many times this!!!!!!

I think Bodine, if coached properly, can improve into a good center. Not saying I'm against bringing in a FA or drafting a replacement, but I think there is hope for him. CO, on the other hand, I see him a Margus Hunt's mirror on the offensive side of the ball. All kinds of physical gifts and potential, but does not have the mean streak to engage them.... he's a lost cause IMO.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Yes!

Here’s why: Both Russell Bodine and Cedric Ogbuehi were terrific in college. For that matter, so was Jake Fisher. With rare exception, people on this board were highly enthusiastic about the Bengals drafting these men. Look on YouTube and see for yourselves; I think looking back to when these players were coached with good technique is highly illustrative.

[Mike M (the other one)]

It's possible, and I'd really like for it to happen, but I'm doubting it and we still need another OT anyways, just in case of Ced still not getting it or Fisher not ready to go.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2018, 02:02 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes!

Here’s why:  Both Russell Bodine and Cedric Ogbuehi were terrific in college.  For that matter, so was Jake Fisher.  With rare exception, people on this board were highly enthusiastic about the Bengals drafting these men.  Look on YouTube and see for yourselves; I think looking back to when these players were coached with good technique is highly illustrative.

I don't recall either being "terrific"? Bodine was "just" good in college but not elite whereas Ogbuehi was only good at RG in college IIRC.

[eoxyod]

Nope. But the important thing with new blocking scheme and a coach that didn't him them as his guy, they can be replaced

[SunsetBengal]

(01-12-2018, 02:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't recall either being "terrific"? Bodine was "just" good in college but not elite whereas Ogbuehi was only good at RG in college IIRC.

Living in NC, I had the opportunity to watch a lot more of Bodine's games than I ordinarily might have, simply by default of it being on local TV.  Now, I can't tell you weather or not he was just the product of a good college OL coach, but that guy had a lot of drive coming off the ball.  I was actually excited when we took him, as I had actually watched him play several games, and was comfortable with what the Bengals were getting.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-12-2018, 11:34 AM)Big Boss Wrote: What do we think?  Will a change in technique and coaching philosophy work wonders with these two, or are they simply lost causes at this point?

I don't know about it, especially Bodine as he has been around for awhile. He really doesn't have any upside.

With Og he is young, so there is still some hope with him but he has to gain that WANT that he doesn't seem to have which
i do not know is possible. It doesn't matter how athletic and talented you are if you don't have the will to succeed and the
want to be the best.

I think Pollack ought to give Westerman a shot at Center and have us draft Frank Ragnow C Arkansas or another top Center.

McGlinchey should definately be on our board early if Boling is going back to Guard.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2018, 02:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Living in NC, I had the opportunity to watch a lot more of Bodine's games than I ordinarily might have, simply by default of it being on local TV.  Now, I can't tell you weather or not he was just the product of a good college OL coach, but that guy had a lot of drive coming off the ball.  I was actually excited when we took him, as I had actually watched him play several games, and was comfortable with what the Bengals were getting.

I'm curious to know how good/big the DTs were that Bodine went up against? From what I remember, Clemson wasn't as good back then as they are now, and the really only good school in the ACC at the time was Florida St, right? I wonder if perhaps Bodine just went up against smaller DTs that weren't physically able to put him on his butt often like so many NFL DTs seem to be able to do.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-12-2018, 03:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm curious to know how good/big the DTs were that Bodine went up against? From what I remember, Clemson wasn't as good back then as they are now, and the really only good school in the ACC at the time was Florida St, right? I wonder if perhaps Bodine just went up against smaller DTs that weren't physically able to put him on his butt often like so many NFL DTs seem to be able to do.

A quick look on NFL.com shows at least 6 active DTs from the ACC that would have been in school the same time as Bodine.

Jay Bromley  Syracuse
Aaron Donald  Pittsburgh
Grady Jarrett   Clemson
Tim Jernigan   FSU
Olsen Pierre   Miami
DJ Reader    Clemson

There may be more, those are just the ones I felt certain of. Now, I didn't research to check 'Carolina's non-conference or bowl opponents, just a quick "let's see".

[*psychdoctor*]

Hell no.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2018, 03:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: A quick look on NFL.com shows at least 6 active DTs from the ACC that would have been in school the same time as Bodine.

Jay Bromley  Syracuse
Aaron Donald  Pittsburgh
Grady Jarrett   Clemson
Tim Jernigan   FSU
Olsen Pierre   Miami
DJ Reader    Clemson

There may be more, those are just the ones I felt certain of.  Now, I didn't research to check 'Carolina's non-conference or bowl opponents, just a quick "let's see".

Thanks for checking on that. Obviously Donald, Jarrett, and Jernigan are NFL quality players. I'll probably have to go check into like each game and see how Bodine did specifically, but it's likely I'll find he was better in college than I was giving him credit for.

But I'll reiterate what I said earlier...since he's a FA now, I still wouldn't look to bring him back because that likely would mean not drafting a C that I think could still easily be better than him.  Another Bodine contract is not a gamble I'd personally take.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-12-2018, 03:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Thanks for checking on that. Obviously Donald, Jarrett, and Jernigan are NFL quality players. I'll probably have to go check into like each game and see how Bodine did specifically, but it's likely I'll find he was better in college than I was giving him credit for.

But I'll reiterate what I said earlier...since he's a FA now, I still wouldn't look to bring him back because that likely would mean not drafting a C that I think could still easily be better than him.  Another Bodine contract is not a gamble I'd personally take.

I'm not suggesting that they give Bodine a nice contract, either.  The question asked by the OP was did anyone think that Bodine or Ogbuehi were salvageable.  I don't feel like Bodine could ever be a "top 5 at his position" type of player, but I do think that with some good coaching and utilizing him better to his strengths could at least move him from bottom of the barrel to "average" at his position.

Now, with the FA group being particularly lean at Center, I would expect the Bengals to at least offer him a "modest" contract, and draft his long term replacement.  I don't know, it's kind of a tough call, as we really don't know what Marvin, Lazor, and now Pollack even think of him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-12-2018, 02:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Living in NC, I had the opportunity to watch a lot more of Bodine's games than I ordinarily might have, simply by default of it being on local TV.  Now, I can't tell you weather or not he was just the product of a good college OL coach, but that guy had a lot of drive coming off the ball.  I was actually excited when we took him, as I had actually watched him play several games, and was comfortable with what the Bengals were getting.

Yeah, i was excited about getting Bodine at the time. He was a mauler at NC and thought he would be an upgrade
over what we had, he was solid but had little upside but an immediate upgrade. He wasn't terrible his rookie season
but i thought he would of grown more than he has to say the least.

Just another example of PA taking a good run blocking college Center and doing nothing with him.

Might of became a worse run blocker in the NFL, similar to Zeitler who was a good run blocker in college.

With Pollack, he is the exact opposite of PA, great run blocking coach that also teaches good technique in pass pro.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-12-2018, 04:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, i was excited about getting Bodine at the time. He was a mauler at NC and thought he would be an upgrade
over what we had, he was solid but had little upside but an immediate upgrade. He wasn't terrible his rookie season
but i thought he would of grown more than he has to say the least.

Just another example of PA taking a good run blocking college Center and doing nothing with him.

Might of became a worse run blocker in the NFL, similar to Zeitler who was a good run blocker in college.

With Pollack, he is the exact opposite of PA, great run blocking coach that also teaches good technique in pass pro.

Which is exactly what this line has been lacking for a while, some serious aggression.  You can take a aggressive, run blocking monster and teach him Pass blocking technique.  But, you really can't really take a passive, technician type of pass blocker and get him to be mean in the run game. 

Seems like we might have had a couple of nasty guys hangin' on, buried at the bottom of the depth chart in Westerman and Redmond.  Perhaps the cupboard isn't quite as bare, as it would appear at first glance, for Pollack to work with?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-12-2018, 04:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Which is exactly what this line has been lacking for a while, some serious aggression.  You can take a aggressive, run blocking monster and teach him Pass blocking technique.  But, you really can't really take a passive, technician type of pass blocker and get him to be mean in the run game. 

Seems like we might have had a couple of nasty guys hangin' on, buried at the bottom of the depth chart in Westerman and Redmond.  Perhaps the cupboard isn't quite as bare, as it would appear at first glance, for Pollack to work with?

Westerman and Redmond coming on late in the year is huge for sure. Westerman i have really high hopes for at either
Guard or Center. With PA gone i doubt we get so much favoritism going on here and there will be a true fight at Center
for once whoever we have. Honestly, Bodine was given this position by PA and there never was a chance at competition
since he got here. So happy this shit is over.

Also, i think Redmond can be a fine backup Guard which is great to have. The cupboard sure isn't as bare as it once
looked thanks to whoever had a hand in finally getting these guys some snaps.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(01-12-2018, 12:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'll trust the coach. If he watches film and thinks they can be saved I'll go with it. The guy has coached some of the best lineman in the league over the last 5 years so I am sure he knows what does and doesn't 6work.

The coach will watch film and then realize there's no way in hell he wants Bodine or OG. To return.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2018, 04:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not suggesting that they give Bodine a nice contract, either.  The question asked by the OP was did anyone think that Bodine or Ogbuehi were salvageable.  I don't feel like Bodine could ever be a "top 5 at his position" type of player, but I do think that with some good coaching and utilizing him better to his strengths could at least move him from bottom of the barrel to "average" at his position.

Now, with the FA group being particularly lean at Center, I would expect the Bengals to at least offer him a "modest" contract, and draft his long term replacement.  I don't know, it's kind of a tough call, as we really don't know what Marvin, Lazor, and now Pollack even think of him.

It's less about the "size" of the contract and more about taking up a roster spot. If the Bengals re-sign Bodine, they better cut TJ Johnson. And Bodine better not make more than $4 mill a year. If he does, that's being overpaid IMO.

Personally, I keep TJ Johnson at $1.85 mill, let Bodine walk, draft a C, and let the new C and TJ Johnson compete for starter reps.

[WhoDeyLeisure]

Don't leave Fisher out of this discussion.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-12-2018, 05:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's less about the "size" of the contract and more about taking up a roster spot. If the Bengals re-sign Bodine, they better cut TJ Johnson. And Bodine better not make more than $4 mill a year. If he does, that's being overpaid IMO.

Personally, I keep TJ Johnson at $1.85 mill, let Bodine walk, draft a C, and let the new C and TJ Johnson compete for starter reps.

Actually, that's a pretty good plan.  With all the attention that Westerman and Redmond had received since the last two weeks of the season, I completely forgot about TJ Johnson being a viable competitor at the Center position.