When Marvin Leaves?

[grampahol]

C'mon..Mikey knows plenty about football. The problem is that most of what he knows just happens to not work when it matters..He's like a crack mechanic who always forgets to properly tighten the main bolts and the only tool he ever uses is a pair of rusty vise grips.. 
I knew a guy who was a really good mechanic, but he also liked to get drunk and high then forget about the important bolts.. His car dropped the transmission right in the middle of 3rd and Main Streets one day so he abandoned the car and quietly got on the next bus home..  True story.. lol

[HarleyDog]

(01-14-2018, 12:22 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Plus the song is about Hell and sometimes it feels as fans we are stuck in some sort of recycled  Bengals hell. 

Not to mention, on the inside of the Hotel California album cover, there is a picture of Anton LaVey standing in the darkness in the middle opening on the 2nd floor corridor. 



Resembles a young Mike Brown. LOL. Welcome to Cincinnati Hell!

[Bengalholic]

(01-14-2018, 11:32 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fwiw, I'm not buying the suddenly very popular narrative that Marv was given more control (we had the same narrative going after the Jan 2011 press conference). Like Holic said, we had a bunch of coaches up at once and that made it easy to swap some guys out. Some of these guys left on their own volition (Guenther and possibly Urban, maybe more).

So the HC is the same.
They didn't want to change either of the coordinators.
We brought in what? 3 new position coaches and a couple position assistants?

Sure the guys we hired were pretty high quality. I'm still not buying that this is a power shift and Mikey is going to let Marv run the team. People constantly underestimate Mike and seem to need to create this idea that he's stepping away. It will never happen. He apparently loves Marv like a newborn loves it's binky, and because of that he'll make some concessions every now and then...but don't let it fool you. Mike will never concede full-on control of his team (money).

He will never build a practice facility (something that was supposed to be a sticking point after 2010). He will never push his chips in on free agency. He will always stick his nose in on player decisions when he sees fit to. At 82 years old, I think he is who he is, and any hope for real change is long gone.

The whole 'new power to hire his own coaches' thing that some people continue to put out there is kind of silly, because Marvin has been hiring his own coaches for 15 years. He's also very much like Mike in terms of loyalty. Here are some of the coaches that Marvin brought in or promoted in 2003 and how long they stuck around on his staff:

Ken Zampese - 14+ years on the staff
Paul Alexander - 15 years on the staff 
Jonathan Hayes - Going into 16th year 
Jay Hayes - 14 years on the staff 
Kevin Coyle - 11 years on staff 
Darrin Simmons - Going into 16th year
Chip Morton - 15 years on staff
Louie Cioffi - 8 years on staff
Bob Surace - 7 years on staff

There were two coaches retained in 2003 that I think Mike did force Marvin to keep, and that as Bob Bratowski (8 years on Marvn's staff) and Jim Anderson (10 years on Marvin's staff). 

I think Marvin has the same exact control over the staff that he's had few the last few years.

With free agency, it's hard to say. Mike obviously isn't a fan of free agency in general, and Marvin has always sounded pretty conservative when it comes to his thoughts about signing guys. I think we might see something similar to 2012, when they were pretty active.

For me though, I think the bigger point is that Marvin needs to fix he own issues. He's had 15 years on the job and he's still having many of the same issues he's had for years as far as coaching. I just honestly haven't seen any signs over these past few years that he has evolved as a coach. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-14-2018, 09:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The whole 'new power to hire his own coaches' thing that some people continue to put out there is kind of silly, because Marvin has been hiring his own coaches for 15 years. He's also very much like Mike in terms of loyalty. Here are some of the coaches that Marvin brought in or promoted in 2003 and how long they stuck around on his staff:

Ken Zampese - 14+ years on the staff
Paul Alexander - 15 years on the staff 
Jonathan Hayes - Going into 16th year 
Jay Hayes - 14 years on the staff 
Kevin Coyle - 11 years on staff 
Darrin Simmons - Going into 16th year
Chip Morton - 15 years on staff
Louie Cioffi - 8 years on staff
Bob Surace - 7 years on staff

There were two coaches retained in 2003 that I think Mike did force Marvin to keep, and that as Bob Bratowski (8 years on Marvn's staff) and Jim Anderson (10 years on Marvin's staff). 

I think Marvin has the same exact control over the staff that he's had few the last few years.

The one area where I think Marvin did want more power is having the final say on ALL draft decisions. The reason I say that is because of an interview he did at the beginning of the year where he was asked about how 'big decisions' were made and his answer was "Mike has 2 votes to my one". It seem that may have been the case with the Ross pick.

With free agency, it's hard to say. Mike obviously isn't a fan of free agency in general, and Marvin has always sounded pretty conservative when it comes to his thoughts about signing guys. I think we might see something similar to 2012, when they were pretty active.

For me though, I think the bigger point is that Marvin needs to fix he own issues. He's had 15 years on the job and he's still having many of the same issues he's had for years as far as coaching. I just honestly haven't seen any signs over these past few years that he has evolved as a coach. 

So you don't think P. ALexander and his blocking schemes and draft picks have been forced on Marvin ?

[BengalsRocker]

(01-14-2018, 09:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Paul Alexander - 15 years on the staff 

Paul pre-dates Marvin.

He's been the O-Line coach since 94.

Promoted in 2003 for some reason.

[Bengalholic]

(01-14-2018, 09:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: So you don't think P. ALexander and his blocking schemes and draft picks have been forced on Marvin ?

I think the decision to keep Alexander around was more mutual than say Brat, which I think was 100% Mike.

Honestly, I think Bill Lazor is a major reason Paul isn't here now. Marvin really wanted Lazor back, and as we've heard, he and Paul weren't exactly on the same page.

[Bengalholic]

(01-14-2018, 09:34 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Paul pre-dates Marvin.

He's been the O-Line coach since 94.

Promoted in 2003 for some reason.

(01-14-2018, 09:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote:  Here are some of the coaches that Marvin brought in or promoted in 2003 and how long they stuck around on his staff:

[BengalsRocker]

(01-14-2018, 09:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think the decision to keep Alexander around was more mutual than say Brat, which I think was 100% Mike.

Honestly, I think Bill Lazor is a major reason Paul isn't here now. Marvin really wanted Lazor back, and as we've heard, he and Paul weren't exactly on the same page.

The whole thing seems odd.

Same O-Line coach for 20+ years no matter who is the OC?

If you have that kind of loyalty with PA then why dump him for an interm OC?

So you're saying Lazor meant so much to Marvin that he jettisoned a cornerstone coach to keep him?

I don't get that relationship at all.

[Bengalholic]

(01-14-2018, 09:57 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The whole thing seems odd.

Same O-Line coach for 20+ years no matter who is the OC?

If you have that kind of loyalty with PA then why dump him for an interm OC?

So you're saying Lazor meant so much to Marvin that he jettisoned a cornerstone coach to keep him?

I don't get that relationship at all.

I think that Marvin, and even Mike, saw the difference after Lazor asserted himself in regards to the line scheme and run game, and it made the decision pretty easy for him, especially given the way that line had played for most of the last two years. 

Remember, Marvin wasn't very happy about the fact that he had to replace Zampese - who had 14+ years with Marvin - but he pretty much had no choice.

[TKUHL]

(01-14-2018, 02:42 PM)grampahol Wrote: C'mon..Mikey knows plenty about football. The problem is that most of what he knows just happens to not work when it matters..He's like a crack mechanic who always forgets to properly tighten the main bolts and the only tool he ever uses is a pair of rusty vise grips.. 
I knew a guy who was a really good mechanic, but he also liked to get drunk and high then forget about the important bolts.. His car dropped the transmission right in the middle of 3rd and Main Streets one day so he abandoned the car and quietly got on the next bus home..  True story.. lol

Lol you must know Bruce too.

[McC]

(01-14-2018, 09:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The whole 'new power to hire his own coaches' thing that some people continue to put out there is kind of silly, because Marvin has been hiring his own coaches for 15 years. He's also very much like Mike in terms of loyalty. Here are some of the coaches that Marvin brought in or promoted in 2003 and how long they stuck around on his staff:

Ken Zampese - 14+ years on the staff
Paul Alexander - 15 years on the staff 
Jonathan Hayes - Going into 16th year 
Jay Hayes - 14 years on the staff 
Kevin Coyle - 11 years on staff 
Darrin Simmons - Going into 16th year
Chip Morton - 15 years on staff
Louie Cioffi - 8 years on staff
Bob Surace - 7 years on staff

There were two coaches retained in 2003 that I think Mike did force Marvin to keep, and that as Bob Bratowski (8 years on Marvn's staff) and Jim Anderson (10 years on Marvin's staff). 

I think Marvin has the same exact control over the coach staff now that he's had for years.

With free agency, it's hard to say. Mike obviously isn't a fan of free agency in general, and Marvin has always sounded pretty conservative when it comes to his thoughts about signing guys. I think we might see something similar to 2012, when they were pretty active.

For me though, I think the bigger point is that Marvin needs to fix he own issues. He's had 15 years on the job and he's still having many of the same issues he's had for years as far as coaching. I just honestly haven't seen any signs over these past few years that he has evolved as a coach. 

Hell, last year, he even took a couple steps backwards.