'It’s time for the Bengals to alter their offseason mindset.'

[Bengalholic]

I think James Rapien makes some great points his latest article. Here are some portions:


We all have ideas to make the Bengals better this offseason. Those include upgrading the offensive line, drafting a potential franchise quarterback and adding speed at linebacker.

I’m on board with all of those ideas. In fact, I want the Bengals to do something much simpler than that. I want them to have an open mind this offseason.

Failures in the draft have also contributed to their decline over the past two seasons. The Bengals prepared for Whitworth and Smith’s departure when they drafted Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher in the first two rounds of the 2015 NFL Draft. Neither player has worked out.

The Bengals still haven’t found a replacement for Jones either. They’ve drafted four wide receivers, including John Ross and Tyler Boyd since Jones signed with Detroit. Both have dealt with injuries in three combined seasons.

It’s time for the Bengals to alter their offseason mindset. Instead of focusing solely on the draft, they need to emulate strategies from the teams that have had success this season.

Philadelphia didn’t shy away from free agency last offseason. They signed Torrey Smith and Alshon Jeffery. The Eagles also traded up in the draft to select quarterback Carson Wentz. They had a quarterback similar to Dalton (Sam Bradford) when they did so. Jacksonville added multiple free agents over the past few years including A.J. Bouye, Malik Jackson, Barry Church and Calais Campbell. The Vikings signed Riley Reiff, Mike Remmers, Datone Jones, Case Keenum and Latavius Murray last offseason.

Free agency isn’t this big, scary thing that only bad organizations use to make a splash. The great organizations use it as a tool to improve their team. Imagine if the Bengals address their offensive line in the draft, but also signed one or two proven linemen. The Vikings did that last offseason and their one win away from the Super Bowl.

If the Bengals find a quarterback that has more potential than Dalton, then they need to draft him. They haven’t seriously considered drafting a quarterback early at any point during the Dalton era. I’m not saying they have to draft one, but they need to remain open to the idea during the evaluation process.

The Bengals need to be un-Bengal-like this offseason. Instead of being stubborn, they need to turn over every rock, look in every direction and do everything they can to improve the roster.

Ignoring free agency, not looking at quarterback prospects and relying on the draft to improve the roster is the wrong approach. Fans can only hope that Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis realize changes have to be made.

Read the full article https://www.lockedonbengals.com/one-thing-i-want-the-bengals-to-have/.

[fredtoast]

I wonder why this story does not mention any of the really terrible teams that also signed big name free agents? If signing expensive free agents was all it took to be good then every team in the league would be good. That being said, I also wish the Bengals would be more active in free agency. I just always find it funny how people who support signing big name free agents ignore the fact that as many bust as work out.

I also find it amazing that we drafted McCarron without even looking at any QB prospects. That was quite a gamble!

[bengals67]

Holic

You are obviously completely right about everything stated.

They have the money to sign two really good free agents in areas of need.

They need to sign two really good free agents.

But what makes you think the Bengals will depart from their 25 year game plan on free agents or anything else.

Far more likely that we will see four consecutive regular season losses to the Steelers ( and one or more in playoffs if we luck out with a wild card and play them) before Marvin's contract is again renewed.

I am not believing anything different until I see them do it.

Firing Alexander and hiring the Cowboys line coach gives a very small glimmer of hope. But it is not nearly enough.

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 03:22 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Holic

You are obviously completely right about everything stated.

They have the money to sign two really good free agents in areas of need.

They need to sign two really good free agents.

But what makes you think the Bengals will depart from their 25 year game plan on free agents or anything else.

Far more likely that we will see four consecutive regular season losses to the Steelers ( and one or more in playoffs if we luck out with a wild card and play them) before Marvin's contract is again renewed.

I am not believing anything different until I see them do it.

Firing Alexander and hiring the Cowboys line coach gives a very small glimmer of hope. But it is not nearly enough.

Those were James Rapien's thoughts, not mine...but yeah, I certainly agree with what he's saying and it's way past time that the Bengals incorporate a free agency strategy that aims to drastically improve the team, instead of just looking at discounted fillers or stop gaps.

[SunsetBengal]

While I whole heartedly agree that the Bengals could do more in free agency, I'm also not wanting to see money wasted on huge contracts that don't result in improving the team.

Just as in all things, moderation is key.

[fredtoast]

If a team is always looking "long term" then the Bengals approach is not that bad.  But once a team gets close to contending they have to take a chance on a free agent or two.

Teams re-sign their best players so the free agents are usually not the best players in the league.  However a player does not have to be the best at his position in the league to get paid like that.  All he has to be is the best free agent available at his position and he will get paid like the best.  So free agents are almost always over priced, and they often are complete flops when they have to play in a different scheme for a different team.

But even though free agents are over priced it is almost impossible to fill every spot on a team with draft picks alone.  If a team is desperate to fill one specific position in the draft they have to reach over a lot of higher ranked players to draft the best available at their position of need.

So the best tactic is to build through the draft until you are just one or two players away from contending and then take some chances in free agency.

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 03:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: While I whole heartedly agree that the Bengals could do more in free agency, I'm also not wanting to see money wasted on huge contracts that don't result in improving the team.

Just as in all things, moderation is key.

That's sort of the quandry though. How are you going to know how much an upper tier, higher paid free agent may impact/improve your team if you never roll the dice to find out? 

I do think you have to be smart about it as well, taking into account how big the need is at the position, how well the player fits  your scheme, whether the player was productive over a period of time and not just a contract year, injury history and other factors.

Free agency is always a gamble to a certain extent, but after 27 years without a single playoff win, I think it's about time they took that gamble. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-16-2018, 03:08 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think James Rapien makes some great points his latest article. Here are some portions:


We all have ideas to make the Bengals better this offseason. Those include upgrading the offensive line, drafting a potential franchise quarterback and adding speed at linebacker.

I’m on board with all of those ideas. In fact, I want the Bengals to do something much simpler than that. I want them to have an open mind this offseason.

Failures in the draft have also contributed to their decline over the past two seasons. The Bengals prepared for Whitworth and Smith’s departure when they drafted Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher in the first two rounds of the 2015 NFL Draft. Neither player has worked out.

The Bengals still haven’t found a replacement for Jones either. They’ve drafted four wide receivers, including John Ross and Tyler Boyd since Jones signed with Detroit. Both have dealt with injuries in three combined seasons.

It’s time for the Bengals to alter their offseason mindset. Instead of focusing solely on the draft, they need to emulate strategies from the teams that have had success this season.

Philadelphia didn’t shy away from free agency last offseason. They signed Torrey Smith and Alshon Jeffery. The Eagles also traded up in the draft to select quarterback Carson Wentz. They had a quarterback similar to Dalton (Sam Bradford) when they did so. Jacksonville added multiple free agents over the past few years including A.J. Bouye, Malik Jackson, Barry Church and Calais Campbell. The Vikings signed Riley Reiff, Mike Remmers, Datone Jones, Case Keenum and Latavius Murray last offseason.

Free agency isn’t this big, scary thing that only bad organizations use to make a splash. The great organizations use it as a tool to improve their team. Imagine if the Bengals address their offensive line in the draft, but also signed one or two proven linemen. The Vikings did that last offseason and their one win away from the Super Bowl.

If the Bengals find a quarterback that has more potential than Dalton, then they need to draft him. They haven’t seriously considered drafting a quarterback early at any point during the Dalton era. I’m not saying they have to draft one, but they need to remain open to the idea during the evaluation process.

The Bengals need to be un-Bengal-like this offseason. Instead of being stubborn, they need to turn over every rock, look in every direction and do everything they can to improve the roster.

Ignoring free agency, not looking at quarterback prospects and relying on the draft to improve the roster is the wrong approach. Fans can only hope that Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis realize changes have to be made.

Read the full article https://www.lockedonbengals.com/one-thing-i-want-the-bengals-to-have/.

I would like to add that Bengals should not be afraid of cutting underperforming vets, especially those who are in the final year of their contracts with no dead cap if cut. That would help open funds to address actual needs and therefore open the draft too.

[bengals67]

cant we just try for once signing a really high quality free agent after his first contract and before they are over the hill.

Or keep guys who perform who we drafted like Zietler. Didn't he make the pro bowl this year?

Did Dre K make the pro bowl- the guy we spent the money on instead of Whit or Z despite having  two other first round CBs and a couple of other deceit CBs to cover if he left.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 03:52 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's sort of the quandry though. How are you going to know how much an upper tier, higher paid free agent may impact/improve your team if you never roll the dice to find out? 

I do think you have to be smart about it as well, taking into account how big the need is at the position, how well the player fits  your scheme, whether the player was productive over a period of time and not just a contract year, injury history and other factors.

Free agency is always a gamble to a certain extent, but after 27 years without a single playoff win, I think it's about time they took that gamble. 

Well, common sense has to play a part in the decision making process as well.  For example, when a team like the Pats or Broncos spent huge money on a key FA, en route to a run to the Superbowl, it was because their team was great, and they felt like they were just one or two players away from being complete.  We look back at them and say "smart business decisions".

On the other hand, when a team like Cleveland makes a Kevin Zeitler the highest paid Guard in the league, and still rolls on to 0-16, it's kind of a head scratcher.  A couple other teams also come to mind as being memorable for spending big, yet still coming out losers are the Dolphins and Redskins before that.

Likely the best model of Free Agent spending that paid off this year, would have to be Jacksonville. Probably doesn't hurt that they've drafted well in recent years, and have a smart man at GM (Coughlin).

[Bengalholic]

Some thoughts from Hob's about the o-line, draft and extensions. Seems like he's already tempering the free agency expectations:

No question they’ll use a raft of picks on the offensive line. Probably not at No. 12. From what I’m hearing early on that’s a deep position in rounds two to four and with an extra third you could easily see them coming out of the first two days with possibly two O-linemen.  I think the Bengals are going to go through due diligence in free agency and look for line upgrades, but I also don’t see them straying far from their philosophy.

They’ve already got their eyes on a pair of huge deals in free agency and they’re named Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap, two of the league’s top defensive linemen heading into their contract years. They’d like/need to get them done now and, yes, they’ll also pursue re-signing a tight end, too. But it’s probably going to be Tyler Kroft and not Tyler Eifert, although they may look at some kind of a reduced deal with Eifert given he’s in another offseason of rehab.

And don’t they have to re-sign right tackle Andre Smith? He really bailed them out at tackle when both Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher struggled. So with Atkins, Dunlap, Kroft, and Smith theoretically getting extended, they’re going to have to find a guy that fits in that salary structure. The guy they’re expected to lose in free agency is running back Jeremy Hill and Eifert is going to be interesting. If somebody throws big money at him, but it’s most likely not the Bengals.

[HarleyDog]

Going to refrain from whining with this post. I love the ideas and hope M&M find a lot of value in this approach. They appear to be taking next year pretty serious so hopefully their approach to free agency and the draft may change a little. I think the long term dynasty approach is not working. We should develop a win now philosophy and stick with it.

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 04:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, common sense has to play a part in the decision making process as well.  For example, when a team like the Pats or Broncos spent huge money on a key FA, en route to a run to the Superbowl, it was because their team was great, and they felt like they were just one or two players away from being complete.  We look back at them and say "smart business decisions".

On the other hand, when a team like Cleveland makes a Kevin Zeitler the highest paid Guard in the league, and still rolls on to 0-16, it's kind of a head scratcher.  A couple other teams also come to mind as being memorable for spending big, yet still coming out losers are the Dolphins and Redskins before that.

Likely the best model of Free Agent spending that paid off this year, would have to be Jacksonville. Probably doesn't hurt that they've drafted well in recent years, and have a smart man at GM (Coughlin).

The problem to me is that the Bengals seem to purposely avoid taking a chance on upper tier free agents...even when they were going one and done five consecutive years and couldn't get over the hump. Their approach has always been extremely cautious and conservative, and that approach had yet to pay off when it matters most. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-16-2018, 04:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, common sense has to play a part in the decision making process as well.  For example, when a team like the Pats or Broncos spent huge money on a key FA, en route to a run to the Superbowl, it was because their team was great, and they felt like they were just one or two players away from being complete.  We look back at them and say "smart business decisions".

On the other hand, when a team like Cleveland makes a Kevin Zeitler the highest paid Guard in the league, and still rolls on to 0-16, it's kind of a head scratcher.  A couple other teams also come to mind as being memorable for spending big, yet still coming out losers are the Dolphins and Redskins before that.

Likely the best model of Free Agent spending that paid off this year, would have to be Jacksonville. Probably doesn't hurt that they've drafted well in recent years, and have a smart man at GM (Coughlin).

They also had a TON of free cap space to work with before 2017 FA opened ($70+ mill based on this article - https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2017/2/23/14711978/jaguars-2017-salary-cap-explained-amount-nfl-free-agency)

Most teams don't have THAT much to work with.

I figured Cleveland was going the same route with all the cap space they have available to roll over.

[*ochocincos*]

Another addition - Mike Brown and the coaches need to quit overvaluing their own drafted players. They seem to value guys like Bodine, Maualuga, Kirkpatrick, etc. MUCH higher than the fans and even other teams value them.

[WeezyBengal]

You guys are all missing one important aspect of free agency...the decision between organization and free agent has to be mutual. What makes you think a big name free agent is going to want to come play for the Bengals if hes getting courted by another organization offering him similar compensation?

[*ochocincos*]

(01-16-2018, 04:53 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You guys are all missing one important aspect of free agency...the decision between organization and free agent has to be mutual. What makes you think a big name free agent is going to want to come play for the Bengals if hes getting courted by another organization offering him similar compensation?

You indirectly hit the nail on the head. The Bengals offer a "similar compensation" compared to other franchises. But they aren't seen as desirable of a franchise/location compared to some other franchises offering the same.

What lured Zeitler to Cleveland? It sure wasn't the amazing weather or weaker division. It was the money. He was offered a ton by Cleveland.

Maybe the Bengals need to overpay by an extra mill or two a year to draw in those desirable FAs.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 04:47 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The problem to me is that the Bengals seem to purposely avoid taking a chance on upper tier free agents...even when they were going one and done five consecutive years and couldn't get over the hump. Their approach has always been extremely cautious and conservative, and that approach had yet to pay off when it matters most. 

I can get on board, to an extent.  Along with spending on upper tier FAs, a stronger line has to be drawn when it comes to re-signing/extending "less than upper tier" FAs currently on the team.  Best recent example that I can think of is the Dre K deal.  A very "average" CB, getting extended on a nice deal.  What they could have done is A. gave him a one year "prove it" deal, or B. Allowed him to walk, cut Adam Jones as well, went on to sign an upper tier CB, and drafted for another.

I completely get what you're saying.  However, I see it as unlikely that any huge moves happen this year.  Why?  Because that would involve something that Mike Brown is fundamentally against, cutting some players that are currently under contract in order to free up some money.  

[Bengalholic]

(01-16-2018, 04:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They also had a TON of free cap space to work with before 2017 FA opened ($70+ mill based on this article - https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2017/2/23/14711978/jaguars-2017-salary-cap-explained-amount-nfl-free-agency)

Most teams don't have THAT much to work with.

I figured Cleveland was going the same route with all the cap space they have available to roll over.

Speaking of cap space, it looks like the Bengals will have around 38-39m, and could free up about 10m more by cutting Jones and LaFell.

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 04:53 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You guys are all missing one important aspect of free agency...the decision between organization and free agent has to be mutual. What makes you think a big name free agent is going to want to come play for the Bengals if hes getting courted by another organization offering him similar compensation?

(01-16-2018, 04:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You indirectly hit the nail on the head. The Bengals offer a "similar compensation" compared to other franchises. But they aren't seen as desirable of a franchise/location compared to some other franchises offering the same.

What lured Zeitler to Cleveland? It sure wasn't the amazing weather or weaker division. It was the money. He was offered a ton by Cleveland.

Maybe the Bengals need to overpay by an extra mill or two a year to draw in those desirable FAs.

I honestly don't see any big name free agents signing on the cheap with winning teams.

It is all about the money.  Even the good teams have to pay a lot for top free agents.