Paul Alexander goes to bat for Ogbuehi and Fisher on his way out"

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-17-2018, 05:23 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Does it really take more than three seasons to develop a first round OT from poor to merely average?

Well....remember now....you're talking about a guy who said he couldn't be bothered to do any coaching during the season. So maybe a 5 year plan isn't that far off in this case.

[fredtoast]

(01-18-2018, 02:43 AM)Wyche Wrote: Well....remember now....you're talking about a guy who said he couldn't be bothered to do any coaching during the season. So maybe a 5 year plan isn't that far off in this case.

Regular season is about game planning for a specific opponent.  They don't really have enough time to work on technique and even if the player and coach are willing to spend extra time they can't get enough live reps with the rest of the team to work on it..

This is why it was so bad that Ogbuehi did not have a healthy training camp his first two seasons.  That is where almost all of the work on technique takes place.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2018, 02:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Regular season is about game planning for a specific opponent.  They don't really have enough time to work on technique and even if the player and coach are willing to spend extra time they can't get enough live reps with the rest of the team to work on it..

This is why it was so bad that Ogbuehi did not have a healthy training camp his first two seasons.  That is where almost all of the work on technique takes place.

I get that....but when a guy is that far off, you either put in as much extra time as you can (especially if YOU are the one that lobbied for the pick), or you bench the guy.  Let's face it....Og was/is WAY off.

When I transitioned to playing some center and took over longsnapping during a season, I stayed after practice and so did my coach, working on longsnaps.  If a guy getting paid a supplemental salary to coach can do it, you'd think a guy getting paid professionally could do it.  He came off as lazy and arrogant the way he worded his statement. The only benefit we had was I could play an extra game a week on the jv squad in order to learn. However, that's one less day of practicing the technique.

[BengalChris]

(01-17-2018, 01:42 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Did anyone else see this?

“Everyone is going to hammer Cedric and Fisher but a year from, now you’ll say, ‘Paul was right. These guys are good,’” Alexander said, according to Geoff Hobson of Bengals.com. “Remember when Tennessee wanted to get rid of Taylor Lewan and (Eric) Fisher was terrible for Kansas City and (Jake) Matthews wasn’t playing well for Atlanta? These guys are good players now. It doesn’t happen overnight. Sometimes it does. Willie (Anderson) was pretty good young. (Andrew Whitworth) was pretty good young. Most guys were not that way.”


My God , this man just will not own up to his mistakes.  Notice he did not include Bodine in this though. What if they do turn out good though?  Will he admit that his coaching style didnt work?

Wow, so we should just accept 3 years of suck arse OT play because some day they might be good, according to Paul Alexander.

[*Go Cards*]

Would trade Ced and Bodine to PA for Travis Frederick right now.

That way he can prove he is right.

[Bengalboy]

One thing i keep reading and hearing a lot of is the fundamental difference in coaching style from PA to Pollack. PA's philosophy was a snap and take a hit to kind of passive block guys. Pollack is attack off of the snap apparently. So perhaps it will help both Fisher and Og. Reality is we want them to pan out, but it wont be because of PA it will be because of Pollack if they do.

[samhain]

(01-18-2018, 09:04 AM)Bengalboy Wrote: One thing i keep reading and hearing a lot of is the fundamental difference in coaching style from PA to Pollack. PA's philosophy was a snap and take a hit to kind of passive block guys. Pollack is attack off of the snap apparently. So perhaps it will help both Fisher and Og. Reality is we want them to pan out, but it wont be because of PA it will be because of Pollack if they do.

That's definitely possible.  They seemed to play a more aggressive scheme late in the year when injuries hit and they were forced to put the young guards in.  Obviously Ogbuehi was out by then, so it's hard to say how he'd do with it.  Looks like we're going to get the chance to see if a more aggressive approach makes them more effective.  

Either way, I'd still draft an offensive tackle with a high pick.  Fisher may or may not even play again.  Andre gets banged up and seems to have to play himself into shape every year.  Ogbuehi has shown absolutely nothing to make you think he's a long term answer on the blind side.  There's no way around the fact that they need at least 2 new o-linemen on the roster.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-18-2018, 10:15 AM)samhain Wrote: That's definitely possible.  They seemed to play a more aggressive scheme late in the year when injuries hit and they were forced to put the young guards in.  Obviously Ogbuehi was out by then, so it's hard to say how he'd do with it.  Looks like we're going to get the chance to see if a more aggressive approach makes them more effective.  

Either way, I'd still draft an offensive tackle with a high pick.  Fisher may or may not even play again.  Andre gets banged up and seems to have to play himself into shape every year.  Ogbuehi has shown absolutely nothing to make you think he's a long term answer on the blind side.  There's no way around the fact that they need at least 2 new o-linemen on the roster.  

Ogbuehi played in 3 of those 6 games, so no, he did NOT show nothing; he was part of those big rushing performances as well.

Not defending him, being objective.

[Whatever]

(01-17-2018, 05:27 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Right I have to believe the heart issue was effecting his play on the field.

He might never be able to play again for all I know.   I think they probly sign A Smith a few years while they figure out who takes the spot.

His heart issue has nothing to do with the fact that he had no clue who to block half the time.  Dude just doesn't get the mental part of the game.

[Goalpost]

(01-18-2018, 11:04 AM)Whatever Wrote: His heart issue has nothing to do with the fact that he had no clue who to block half the time.  Dude just doesn't get the mental part of the game.

Bengals made him a jack of all trades try, which might have overwhelmed him.  They had him at different times playing G, FB, TE, and RT...a lot to learn.  And his natural position might be as a LT.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-18-2018, 11:41 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Bengals made him a jack of all trades try, which might have overwhelmed him.  They had him at different times playing G, FB, TE, and RT...a lot to learn.  And his natural position might be as a LT.

TE might be where he had the most success.

The old Dennis Roland role. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2018, 10:45 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ogbuehi played in 3 of those 6 games, so no, he did NOT show nothing; he was part of those big rushing performances as well.

Not defending him, being objective.

I agree, but he still wasn't very good in those 3 games.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-18-2018, 11:59 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I agree, but he still wasn't very good in those 3 games.

That's fine.

But he was a part of those big rushing games.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2018, 12:18 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That's fine.

But he was a part of those big rushing games.

Yeah, he was.  It seems he was decent pulling, but the aggression looked like it helped the interior line more than anyone.  I recall some decent gains up the middle, and off RT.  I'm having to rely on memory here, but that's what I recall.  His technique was still pretty bad, and he still looked as though his heart wasn't in it.  That's the thing that concerns me most with Og.  I can handle just being bad at your job when there is effort there, but that Jags game was pretty much it for me.  He got his ass beat on many occasions, and one in particular where he just looked at his QB on the ground as a result of his poor effort, turned his back and walked off the field.  As a guy that played on the line, that disgusted me.  At least help the man up when you eff up and apologize.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-18-2018, 12:28 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Yeah, he was.  It seems he was decent pulling, but the aggression looked like it helped the interior line more than anyone.  I recall some decent gains up the middle, and off RT.  I'm having to rely on memory here, but that's what I recall.  His technique was still pretty bad, and he still looked as though his heart wasn't in it.  That's the thing that concerns me most with Og.  I can handle just being bad at your job when there is effort there, but that Jags game was pretty much it for me.  He got his ass beat on many occasions, and one in particular where he just looked at his QB on the ground as a result of his poor effort, turned his back and walked off the field.  As a guy that played on the line, that disgusted me.  At least help the man up when you eff up and apologize.

You know, it is super hindsight and all that jazz, but I got that exact vibe from him, on draft night.

Just seeing him smile half-heartedly and not be into it, kinda soured me on the pick; seemed like a complete momma's boy, entitled guy.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2018, 12:40 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: You know, it is super hindsight and all that jazz, but I got that exact vibe from him, on draft night.

Just seeing him smile half-heartedly and not be into it, kinda soured me on the pick; seemed like a complete momma's boy, entitled guy.

Wow, I wasn't watching that year.....that sounds pretty bad.  Seems you actually had some good insight that evening! :andy:

[bengalhoel]

(01-18-2018, 12:40 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: You know, it is super hindsight and all that jazz, but I got that exact vibe from him, on draft night.

Just seeing him smile half-heartedly and not be into it, kinda soured me on the pick; seemed like a complete momma's boy, entitled guy.

Yeah, I feel for him.  If I knew that I was going to be a millionaire from playing a game for a living instead of having to slog through life at a dead end job , I wouldnt be fired up either. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-18-2018, 12:53 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Wow, I wasn't watching that year.....that sounds pretty bad.  Seems you actually had some good insight that evening! :andy:

lol I'll see if I can find the announcement of the pick and stuff from that night; I've been trained and taught that, "people know over the phone, if you're smiling," so I guess in a visual, you can kinda tell that too.


EDIT*: Best I can find; he has what seems to be, a genuine smile with his mother and father/brother/whatever, then as soon as he turns to the white guy, the smile disappears. Looks like he's only smiling for pictures and such and that's it. Even with Goodell, he doesn't seem super genuine...

The NFL network feed though, had him walking all through the stage and such, looking disinterested and unhappy; can't see it on ESPN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUPKEc6GOiw

This is just the feeling I got, that's all; I was 100% indifferent to the pick at the time of the pick.

[Whatever]

(01-18-2018, 12:40 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: You know, it is super hindsight and all that jazz, but I got that exact vibe from him, on draft night.

Just seeing him smile half-heartedly and not be into it, kinda soured me on the pick; seemed like a complete momma's boy, entitled guy.

It's hard for me to get a read on the guy.  Being fair, he finished his bowl game playing on a torn ACL.  That shows a lot of heart and toughness.  But he does have that sort of "don't care" attitude about him.  His draft night reaction could have been due to a number of reasons.  For example, if the Patriots tell you "We're going to pick you if you make it to us," and the Bengals take you a few picks before then, you're likely to be disappointed.  

Whatever the case is, though, both Og and Fisher have had their second chances, and we'd be dumb to give them a 3rd based on what we've seen.

[grampahol]

You really have to be a mind reader of epic proportions to watch and figure out exactly what is going on in somebody's mind from a few hundred feet away or watching on TV especially during the heat of a play gone bad.. 
I don't have the first clue what these guys are thinking when they turn around to see Andy getting sacked, but I kind of doubt it's along the lines of "Oh well..I'm getting paid a gazillion bucks so what do I care?"
They know that at the end of the day if they're playing horrible their job becomes less and less secure..
I suspect it's more likely that they feel the pressure and hope to gawd that the next play doesn't go as bad.. Who really knows other than the players themselves? 
At any rate PA is gone and there's a new sheriff in town and if Pollack can turn these guys into top shelf players more power to him. I have my doubts that they're going to just sh*tcan everyone and start from scratch..