Andy Dalton street value

[HarleyDog]

(01-18-2018, 01:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Two firsts at least.

My thoughts as well. Dalton has flaws no doubt, but you put him behind a good line with a good receiving corp, he plays above average. Dalton will never be acclaimed as top tier on these boards because, well, he's not. However, The OL woes along with poor play calling can make any QB look shaky, inconsistent and unsteady. 

[XenoMorph]

(01-18-2018, 01:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Eli is 37, and got benched for Geno Smith this season. Doubt there will be a ton of interest in him. Especially with Bortles taking the Jags so far in the playoffs.

Arent Bortles and Cousins Free Agents when their seasons ends(cousins already)   


So there could be QB shuffles coming when FA hits.


I don't know what would be offered but it would have to be pretty big to get the bengals to trade Dalton at this point I think. IF they were thinking on doing that I would only think it happens draft day when they are sure they can get the QB they want.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2018, 08:00 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: My thoughts as well. Dalton has flaws no doubt, but you put him behind a good line with a good receiving corp, he plays above average. Dalton will never be acclaimed as top tier on these boards because, well, he's not. However, The OL woes along with poor play calling can make any QB look shaky, inconsistent and unsteady. 

Short, sweet, to the point, and spot on.

[BMK]

(01-18-2018, 08:00 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: My thoughts as well. Dalton has flaws no doubt, but you put him behind a good line with a good receiving corp, he plays above average. Dalton will never be acclaimed as top tier on these boards because, well, he's not. However, The OL woes along with poor play calling can make any QB look shaky, inconsistent and unsteady. 

I agree with your assessment but disagree about him being worth 2 firsts. Dalton can be an above average QB as you said, but I think you'd need to be better than above average to command 2 firsts. I don't see him stepping in and totally turning a franchise around by his presence....and that would be the only justification to maybe give up 2 firsts, IMHO.

I also don't think it's necessary any longer to mortgage your future to get a good QB.

I look at it this way...take Brady out of the equation and look at the other QBs playing the championship games this weekend. Would any of them have commanded 2 firsts at the end of last season?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2018, 12:10 PM)BMK Wrote: I agree with your assessment but disagree about him being worth 2 firsts. Dalton can be an above average QB as you said, but I think you'd need to be better than above average to command 2 firsts. I don't see him stepping in and totally turning a franchise around by his presence....and that would be the only justification to maybe give up 2 firsts, IMHO.

I also don't think it's necessary any longer to mortgage your future to get a good QB.

I look at it this way...take Brady out of the equation and look at the other QBs playing the championship games this weekend. Would any of them have commanded 2 firsts at the end of last season?

But here's the thing, there are a couple teams out there with good talent and poor QB play.....guys like Dalton, Alex Smith, Keenum, CAN come in turn a franchise around with their presence in that instance.  As was noted earlier, it all depends on the circumstances.

[Tiger Teeth]

(01-18-2018, 12:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: But here's the thing, there are a couple teams out there with good talent and poor QB play.....guys like Dalton, Alex Smith, Keenum, CAN come in turn a franchise around with their presence in that instance.  As was noted earlier, it all depends on the circumstances.

I agree, there are a few teams that I think would jump on a trade for Dalton.  Possibly 2 first round picks as fred thinks.

[grampahol]

Street value? Really? I can just see the headlines..
"Today police announced today the confiscation of a quarter back with an estimated street value of 10 gazillion dollars, a huge undisclosed pile of cash, guns and several bottles of chemicals said to be used to manufacture methamphetamine along with releasing several people held against their will and forced to perform what law enforcement agencies say was protecting his blind side. Several senators are now sponsoring a bill that would prohibit trafficking of quarter backs and offensive linemen." Hard hitting mudraker Geoff Hobson contributed to this story.. 

[Shake n Blake]

(01-18-2018, 04:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Disagree Dalton>Palmer, regardless what year you’re talking about. Jimmy G is a really good QB. Do you think Dalton would have went out to SF and turned that awful team around and went 6-0? I don’t.

You're going to have to use a subjective argument for that, because all the facts say otherwise.

By facts, I mean stats, wins, playoff appearances and accolades. As much as people on here feel otherwise, Dalton has been as good as Palmer, at the very least.

[BMK]

(01-18-2018, 12:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: But here's the thing, there are a couple teams out there with good talent and poor QB play.....guys like Dalton, Alex Smith, Keenum, CAN come in turn a franchise around with their presence in that instance.  As was noted earlier, it all depends on the circumstances.

Maybe...what teams are you referring to that have all the talent necessary but only lack Dalton's presence to completely turn the team around? 

I think Buffalo might come close to fitting that description, but do you really think they need to give up 2 first round picks to do better than Taylor?

[GodFather]

(01-17-2018, 11:53 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: In the hypothetical world what do you think an offer for him would be?

A Hot Dog and a Shake!

[Shake n Blake]

(01-18-2018, 03:15 PM)GodFather Wrote: A Hot Dog and a Shake!

[*Nately120*]

(01-18-2018, 01:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The Vikings gave up a first and a fourth for Sam Bradford.

The Bears gave up 2 firsts, a 3rd, and a starting QB (Orton) for Jay Cutler.

Based on that what do you think Dalton is worth?  It has to be a good bit more than Bradford demanded, right?

It depends on when the trade takes place and why.  Bradford was worth a 1st and 4th because they were about to start the season when their starting QB's knee blew up out of nowhere.  We got a 1st and 2nd for Palmer because Hue Jackson had history with Carson and was desperate to make the playoffs to save what could have been his single shot at being a HC after Jason Campbell went down for the year.  The Bears traded a lot for Cutler because they'd started 20 some nobody QBs during Brett Favre's streak and were desperate to look legit at QB for once, and so on.

Maybe if the Browns draft a QB 1st overall and he and Kizer both go out for the year during the pre-season one of our QBs suddenly becomes worth a 1st and more...otherwise?  Ehh.  Usually people trade the farm for a QB when they have history with the guy, their starter is gone for the year right before or early into the season, and the guy they're trading for doesn't look like he'll factor into the starting gig 100% where he currently is. 

[motoarch]

A carton of Newport’s

[J24]

(01-18-2018, 06:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It depends on when the trade takes place and why.  Bradford was worth a 1st and 4th because they were about to start the season when their starting QB's knee blew up out of nowhere.  We got a 1st and 2nd for Palmer because Hue Jackson had history with Carson and was desperate to make the playoffs to save what could have been his single shot at being a HC after Jason Campbell went down for the year.  The Bears traded a lot for Cutler because they'd started 20 some nobody QBs during Brett Favre's streak and were desperate to look legit at QB for once, and so on.

Maybe if the Browns draft a QB 1st overall and he and Kizer both go out for the year during the pre-season one of our QBs suddenly becomes worth a 1st and more...otherwise?  Ehh.  Usually people trade the farm for a QB when they have history with the guy, their starter is gone for the year right before or early into the season, and the guy they're trading for doesn't look like he'll factor into the starting gig 100% where he currently is. 

I don't think you can compare Bradford's and Carson situation to Dalton's though. Dalton is a starter and a current franchise QB. Both of those guys were backups and had a significant injury history.  Cutler is more comparable but at the same time the Broncos didn't have a choice on weather or not they could keep him. So his value at the time was probably more than what they actually got.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-18-2018, 06:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It depends on when the trade takes place and why.  Bradford was worth a 1st and 4th because they were about to start the season when their starting QB's knee blew up out of nowhere.  We got a 1st and 2nd for Palmer because Hue Jackson had history with Carson and was desperate to make the playoffs to save what could have been his single shot at being a HC after Jason Campbell went down for the year.  The Bears traded a lot for Cutler because they'd started 20 some nobody QBs during Brett Favre's streak and were desperate to look legit at QB for once, and so on.

Maybe if the Browns draft a QB 1st overall and he and Kizer both go out for the year during the pre-season one of our QBs suddenly becomes worth a 1st and more...otherwise?  Ehh.  Usually people trade the farm for a QB when they have history with the guy, their starter is gone for the year right before or early into the season, and the guy they're trading for doesn't look like he'll factor into the starting gig 100% where he currently is. 

That's a pretty common story in the NFL though. There are several teams right now that can make a similar claim.

[*Nately120*]

(01-18-2018, 06:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That's a pretty common story in the NFL though. There are several teams right now that can make a similar claim.

I think the Bears take a lack of a QB to a new level.  You have to figure the best QB's they've rolled out in the 70 years post Sid Luckman include:

Jay Cutler
Erik Kramer (probably more notable for winning the only Lion's playoff game in 60 years)
Jim Harbaugh
Jim McMahon
George Blanda....maybe?

[fredtoast]

(01-18-2018, 02:12 PM)grampahol Wrote: Street value? Really? I can just see the headlines..
"Today police announced today the confiscation of a quarter back with an estimated street value of 10 gazillion dollars, a huge undisclosed pile of cash, guns and several bottles of chemicals said to be used to manufacture methamphetamine along with releasing several people held against their will and forced to perform what law enforcement agencies say was protecting his blind side. Several senators are now sponsoring a bill that would prohibit trafficking of quarter backs and offensive linemen." Hard hitting mudraker Geoff Hobson contributed to this story.. 

This.

If you cut one quarterback into 2 eightballbacks you can make a lot more money.

And with our o-line you can bet Dalton is going to get stepped on a lot.

[*bfine32*]

LONG ANSWER: His value is what someone is willing to give up for him. I cannot see any team willing to give up 2 first Rd picks for a middle of the road 30 year old QB, that has proven to shit the bed in the post-season.

Conversely I can see a team giving up a 2nd rounder to bring in a solid QB that can get their team into the playoffs. I see teams viewing Andy as a piece that can get you their, but not piece you're going to build your future award.

It would have to be a team that feels they are adequate QB away from making a move; not a crappy team looking to rebuild

SHORT ANSWER: Late first

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-18-2018, 02:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're going to have to use a subjective argument for that, because all the facts say otherwise.

By facts, I mean stats, wins, playoff appearances and accolades. As much as people on here feel otherwise, Dalton has been as good as Palmer, at the very least.

Not going to get into comparing stats and such, but I’ll say if they’re that close I’ll take Palmer over Andy because I think he made throws Andy couldn’t, and was better at standing in the pocket and making plays (he kind of had to due to being a statue). I think Palmer would have had even more success than Andy if he had some of those better defenses.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2018, 03:06 PM)BMK Wrote: Maybe...what teams are you referring to that have all the talent necessary but only lack Dalton's presence to completely turn the team around? 

I think Buffalo might come close to fitting that description, but do you really think they need to give up 2 first round picks to do better than Taylor?

If they want to help their cause, perhaps.  Houston was a good example, but it seems they have found their man.  Miami is a fringe candidate.....KC was a good example.  Arizona might be one to consider with the Palmer retirement, if Derek Carr doesn't rebound......there are a few.