Bodine = Dalton???

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-30-2018, 04:17 PM)PDub80 Wrote: At first, I had written this as a funny response to the "Bengals have interest in Bodine" thread. But, after I typed it out, the realization of the similarities actually had me curious. If Andy Dalton played a different position, wouldn't he basically = Bodine? I mean, outside of the 1 (looking like miraculous) season in 2015 - they're prone to similar types of seasons, aren't they?

Okay.....this makes a little more sense to me worded this way.

Nah, I'd say more like a George Iloka or someone like that.  As I stated, Bodine has been horrible.....not as horrible as Ogbuehi, but terrible nonetheless.  Aside from the great season, Dalton has been right around middle of the road.  While it's certainly not earth shattering, I don't feel it's Bodine bad either.  In other words, I'd call Dalton serviceable at the very least.....and Bodine *somewhat* serviceable at the very best.

I'd put Bodine in the same category as Ogbuehi......or a QB like Johnny Fartball.

[PDub80]

(01-30-2018, 04:28 PM)Wyche Wrote: Okay.....this makes a little more sense to me worded this way.

Nah, I'd say more like a George Iloka or someone like that.  As I stated, Bodine has been horrible.....not as horrible as Ogbuehi, but terrible nonetheless.  Aside from the great season, Dalton has been right around middle of the road.  While it's certainly not earth shattering, I don't feel it's Bodine bad either.  In other words, I'd call Dalton serviceable at the very least.....and Bodine *somewhat* serviceable at the very best.

I'd put Bodine in the same category as Ogbuehi......or a QB like Johnny Fartball.

Ok, super points, but let me just pose this line of thought to maybe spice it up some....

Andy Dalton has had very strong coaches in Gruden (QB Guy), Hue (QB Guy), Zampese (QB Guy).

While Bodine has had.... well. Someone who is less than the above by miles.

And, thank you for reading my responses and putting thought into an answer.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-30-2018, 04:42 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Ok, super points, but let me just pose this line of thought to maybe spice it up some....

Andy Dalton has had very strong coaches in Gruden (QB Guy), Hue (QB Guy), Zampese (QB Guy).

While Bodine has had.... well. Someone who is less than the above by miles.

And, thank you for reading my responses and putting thought into an answer.

No problem man.....like I said earlier, I have read a lot of good stuff by you on here over the years.

That said, you do have good points about Gruden and Hue, but I'm not much on Zampese.

Good point on Bodine's coaching too.  Definitely puts him behind the 8-ball.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-30-2018, 12:54 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: In all fairness, Dalton is a top 15-20 QB.  Top 12 when playing well.

Bodine is a bottom 2-3 C, bottom 5 when playing well.

Exactly.

(01-30-2018, 10:13 AM)Wyche Wrote: Wait, you were serious? 


Look man, Bodine is not even average.  Come on PDub, you're better than this, I've read it on here.....you're way better than this.  If you compared Dalton to Boling, or maybe even big Dre.....you might have something.  However, Bodine is CONSISTENTLY among the worst at his position, not middle of the pack, THE WORST.  Besides rankings, watching the games should tell you all you need to know.  This is pure trolling......

This would be the best comparison (on the o-line) IMO. Dre has had some really good years mixed with some "eh" years. Overall a competent tackle, maybe even above average overall.

Dalton is Dre without the injuries.

[*Synric*]

(01-30-2018, 05:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly.


This would be the best comparison IMO. Dre has had some really good years mixed with some "eh" years. Overall a competent tackle, maybe even above average overall.

Dalton is Dre without the injuries.

I like using Dunlap.

Both Dunlap and Dalton are always on the verge of being something special but just never quite getting there...

[Shake n Blake]

(01-30-2018, 04:42 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Ok, super points, but let me just pose this line of thought to maybe spice it up some....

Andy Dalton has had very strong coaches in Gruden (QB Guy), Hue (QB Guy), Zampese (QB Guy).

While Bodine has had.... well. Someone who is less than the above by miles.

And, thank you for reading my responses and putting thought into an answer.

Dalton's position coaches have been Zampese and Lazor though. I wouldn't call either a guru. Dalton had to go outside to get real help with his craft.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-30-2018, 05:51 PM)Synric Wrote: I like using Dunlap.

Both Dunlap and Dalton are always on the verge of being something special but just never quite getting there...

Another fair one. Dunlap had his one blowup season (13.5 sacks in 2015) and the rest have ranged from "meh" to above-average (but nothing great).

Solid player, but just hasn't been able to consistently be great.

[J24]

Now I am starting to wonder if the people that like Dalton are beginning to underrate him.
First-he has a winning record as a starting QB
TWO- His 2015 season wasn't good it was great before he got hurt. You would take that season from Aaron Rodgers if he gave it to you. People act like it was just Ok no it was great.
Three- He also has had two very good sasons; 2013 He threw over 4,000 yards and over 30 TDs and in 2016 He threw for over 4,000 yards, 7.5 Yards per pass, threw only 8 Ints and Completed 64.7 % of his passes. The Only number that keeps it from elite is TD.

So I would say comparing him to Bodine who at his best is an ok player to Dalton is as salty as a saltine cracker.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-30-2018, 05:51 PM)Synric Wrote: I like using Dunlap.

Both Dunlap and Dalton are always on the verge of being something special but just never quite getting there...

Probably the best comparison.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-30-2018, 04:28 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Show me an NFL MVP candidate who plays center. I mean, come on now.

I do get your point of Dalton possibly having a higher ceiling than Bodine - but Bodine's coach has been outed as a derp. Could Bodine's ceilign be higher with proper coaching? In comparison, Dalton's had outstanding coaching around him: Gruden (QB oriented), Hue (QB oriented), Zampese (a strong QB coach). I guess I just don't see Dalton's 2015 season as a standard for him, but rather a spike on his performance chart before he leveled back out and crashed down to Earth. Even in 2015 it was more of a great 1/2 a season before he started tapering down.

Kind of like Jeremy Hill's rookie year. People gave up on Hill for a similar complete drop in performance, but not Dalton over the same time period. Is it because of position?

If Andy Dalton was a guard, WR, tackle, or RB would we accept these performances/seasons or would fans want him replaced like they did Hill, LaFell, Maualuga, Bodine? I think that over their careers and 1 great year from Dalton, Dalton is more similar than different to those guys when it comes to on the field consistency and performance week to week year to year.

Even thought my original post was done in a fun/funny way, I think it's a fair question or comparison.

Here's Dalton's stats from his "MVP" season ini2015:
3250 yards 25 TDs 7 INT 106.3 QB rating
His per game averages from that year: 250 yards 1.9 TDs 0.5 INTs

Here's his stats from what I consider to be his 2nd thru 4th best seasons (feel free to disagree)
2013:
4293 yards 33 TDs 20 INT 88.8 rating
Per game averages: 268 yards 2.1 TDs 1.25 INTs

2016:
4206 yards 18 TDs 8 INT 91.8 rating
Per game averages: 262 yards 1.1 TDs 0.5 INTs

2012:
3669 yards 27 Tds 16 INT 87.4 rating
Per game averages: 229 yards 1.7 TDs 1 INTs

If you acknowledge that 2015 was a good season, looks like Dalton's been rather consistently good in more than 1 season.

Please show the stats that Bodine has been consistently good in more than 1 season.

Thanks.

[PDub80]

(01-31-2018, 04:43 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's Dalton's stats from his "MVP" season ini2015:
3250 yards 25 TDs 7 INT 106.3 QB rating
His per game averages from that year: 250 yards 1.9 TDs 0.5 INTs

Here's his stats from what I consider to be his 2nd thru 4th best seasons (feel free to disagree)
2013:
4293 yards 33 TDs 20 INT 88.8 rating
Per game averages: 268 yards 2.1 TDs 1.25 INTs

2016:
4206 yards 18 TDs 8 INT 91.8 rating
Per game averages: 262 yards 1.1 TDs 0.5 INTs

2012:
3669 yards 27 Tds 16 INT 87.4 rating
Per game averages: 229 yards 1.7 TDs 1 INTs

If you acknowledge that 2015 was a good season, looks like Dalton's been rather consistently good in more than 1 season.

Please show the stats that Bodine has been consistently good in more than 1 season.

Thanks.

Dalton had 1/2of a MVP season and came back down to Earth after/during the Texans embarrassment. Comparatively, his 2015 was almost as good as Alex Smith’s 2017. 2015 has been Dalton’s best season by a mile. To plant a flag in that as if it’s how he plays is idiotic. It isn’t. Not... even... close. He’s a middle of the pack, to back of the pack quality player - depending on if the game is at 1:30, in prime time, or the playoffs. Just... like... Bodine, LaFell, Maualuga, Hill, etc.

Also, did you just ask me for center stats? Pfffffft!!!!!!!!!!

[BengalsRocker]

I get what you're trying to say.

Mediocrity is the Bengals' way of thinking when it comes to retaining players.

The flaw is that Dalton has had some high performances to mix with horrid/low/mediocre ones.

Bodine might very well play better without such a moron as a position coach... so I'll give you that point.

You had to have known that this thread smells like a troll job though. LOL

Below the surface there is meaning to it.

I understand but don't fully agree.

Like Shake said. Compared to Andre Smith without the injuries would be more logical.

[J24]

(02-03-2018, 02:07 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Dalton had 1/2of a MVP season and came back down to Earth after/during the Texans embarrassment. Comparatively, his 2015 was almost as good as Alex Smith’s 2017. 2015 has been Dalton’s best season by a mile. To plant a flag in that as if it’s how he plays is idiotic. It isn’t. Not... even... close. He’s a middle of the pack, to back of the pack quality player - depending on if the game is at 1:30, in prime time, or the playoffs. Just... like... Bodine, LaFell, Maualuga, Hill, etc.

Also, did you just ask me for center stats? Pfffffft!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wow he had one bad game against the Texans( by the way AJ Green fumbled the game away on the final possession) so that should dismiss Andys entire 2015 season? 

[reuben.ahmed]

has dalton reached his limits of potential and we won't see him get any better the rest of his career. i have a problem with what looks like lack of reading progressions.

[PDub80]

(02-04-2018, 10:03 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: has dalton reached his limits of potential and we won't see him get any better the rest of his career. i have a problem with what looks like lack of reading progressions.

^ I believe he has. Along with his progression issues, I have a problem with his leadership: failure to show up in big games, primetime, playoffs, against the Steelers, etc., his deep ball, accuracy on anything but his check downs, and plenty of other things.

7 years in and the Bengals have one outstanding 1/2 of a season and the rest are about the same. Not sure if the same guys thinking/giving Dalton years 8, 9, or 10 for the lightbulb to turn back on and shine brightly are the same guys wanting Marvin, Hill, Maualuga, LaFell, etc. gone or not? If so, they're hypocrites.

[reuben.ahmed]

(02-04-2018, 06:03 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ I believe he has. Along with his progression issues, I have a problem with his leadership: failure to show up in big games, primetime, playoffs, against the Steelers, etc., his deep ball, accuracy on anything but his check downs, and plenty of other things.

7 years in and the Bengals have one outstanding 1/2 of a season and the rest are about the same. Not sure if the same guys thinking/giving Dalton years 8, 9, or 10 for the lightbulb to turn back on and shine brightly are the same guys wanting Marvin, Hill, Maualuga, LaFell, etc. gone or not? If so, they're hypocrites.

I agree to that. I can't see giving Andy Dalton 10 years to figure out this team, with the rest of the team (coach/etc) just being stagnant too. He has glimpses of what he used to be, stepping up into the pocket, driving the ball, etc. but his lack of progression reading and pump fakes/rollouts (maybe these are on the coach) limits our playmaking in the passing game. He is the definition of average QB, with a great team, he could have landed in the super bowl, but the chips all had to fall.

[J24]

(02-04-2018, 08:24 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I agree to that. I can't see giving Andy Dalton 10 years to figure out this team, with the rest of the team (coach/etc) just being stagnant too. He has glimpses of what he used to be, stepping up into the pocket, driving the ball, etc. but his lack of progression reading and pump fakes/rollouts (maybe these are on the coach) limits our playmaking in the passing game. He is the definition of average QB, with a great team, he could have landed in the super bowl, but the chips all had to fall.

What limits our passing game is our shitty offensive line and lack of separation at WR.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-03-2018, 02:07 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Dalton had 1/2of a MVP season and came back down to Earth after/during the Texans embarrassment. Comparatively, his 2015 was almost as good as Alex Smith’s 2017. 2015 has been Dalton’s best season by a mile. To plant a flag in that as if it’s how he plays is idiotic. It isn’t. Not... even... close. He’s a middle of the pack, to back of the pack quality player - depending on if the game is at 1:30, in prime time, or the playoffs. Just... like... Bodine, LaFell, Maualuga, Hill, etc.

Also, did you just ask me for center stats? Pfffffft!!!!!!!!!!

I show you how his stats were consistent during his 4 best seasons and you come back with THIS nonsense?

I guess it's my fault for giving your intelligence too much credit. My bad. Won't happen again. 

[Tiger Teeth]

(02-03-2018, 02:07 AM)PDub80 Wrote: He’s a middle of the pack, to back of the pack quality player - depending on if the game is at 1:30, in prime time, or the playoffs. Just... like... Bodine, LaFell, Maualuga, Hill, etc.

Just to make sure I got this straight.  You're saying Bodine is a middle of the pack center?  Really?

[*PhilHos*]

(02-05-2018, 05:31 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Just to make sure I got this straight.  You're saying Bodine is a middle of the pack center?  Really?

Middle of the pack QUALITY player.