Mike may gauge team/player success by comparing to the bottom, not the Top

[depthchart]

The 2016 Bengal team finished 6-9-1 and 5th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

The 2017 Bengal team finished 7-9 and 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

                                          ** A year over year improvement from 2016 to 2017. **

Now three Mike Brown quotes from the past:

"This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad."

“Yes, we want to win a playoff game, we want to win the Super Bowl. So do a lot of other teams, most of which have not gotten as far as we've gotten."


"We have not had a record that is unacceptable over the last half dozen years. I wish it was better but it was in many ways getting into the playoffs better than most."

End of Mike Brown quotes.

It seems to me, (The OP here), that Mike Brown has a mindset of gauging how he is doing versus the bottom of the league, rather than comparing his team to the Elite teams of the NFL each year.

The 2017 Bengals were in the Top 30% of the 10 AFC teams that did not qualify for the Playoffs. (7 other AFC teams finished BEHIND them)

Mike seems to use success against the teams that finished beneath him as Proof that he is competent. In a sense it is Proof of a certain level of competency, however, Fans are Gauging by looking at the Top/Elite teams. Mike seems to gauge from the bottom.

Fans see how far removed we are from the Patriots & Steelers of the AFC.

Mike offers Proof that he is NOT incompetent by referring to the teams he finished ahead of.

**  If he has this Mindset with his team then it seems logical that he applies it to PLAYERS that he has chosen.  **

Hence Bodine is not the worst Center in the NFL, so it was not incompetent to Start him. 
(Mike PROVES it was not a bad move and sticks with Bodine by Gauging Bodine from the Bottom. Even being the 32nd Center out of 32 would mean he is better than many backup Centers that can't start. Therefore, not a bad or incompetent Draft pick)

When I watch the Superbowl this week (and Fans watch) we will be analyzing how far off the Bengals are from being Elite like the 2 teams competing.

Will Mike Brown do the same ?

Or will he see his team as 1 of 30 other NFL teams that did not make it. His being 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs. Meaning, he did better than some and therefore he is not incompetent.

Look at his quotes above again.

He seems hell bent on proving that he is not the worst and not trying to prove that he is the best. (As a GM/Owner)

This likely spills over into player retention decisions and never giving up on the Bodine's of the League that Mike handpicked.

Mike's message to fans seems to be:      Better than some = not incompetent

This may be the Target he shoots for which is different than the Target Fans want him to shoot for.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-29-2018, 12:43 PM)depthchart Wrote: The 2016 Bengal team finished 6-9-1 and 5th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

The 2017 Bengal team finished 7-9 and 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

                                          ** A year over year improvement from 2016 to 2017. **

Now three Mike Brown quotes from the past:

"This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad."

“Yes, we want to win a playoff game, we want to win the Super Bowl. So do a lot of other teams, most of which have not gotten as far as we've gotten."


"We have not had a record that is unacceptable over the last half dozen years. I wish it was better but it was in many ways getting into the playoffs better than most."

End of Mike Brown quotes.

It seems to me, (The OP here), that Mike Brown has a mindset of gauging how he is doing versus the bottom of the league, rather than comparing his team to the Elite teams of the NFL each year.

The 2017 Bengals were in the Top 30% of the 10 AFC teams that did not qualify for the Playoffs. (7 other AFC teams finished BEHIND them)

Mike seems to use success against the teams that finished beneath him as Proof that he is competent. In a sense it is Proof of a certain level of competency, however, Fans are Gauging by looking at the Top/Elite teams. Mike seems to gauge from the bottom.

Fans see how far removed we are from the Patriots & Steelers of the AFC.

Mike offers Proof that he is NOT incompetent by referring to the teams he finished ahead of.

**  If he has this Mindset with his team then it seems logical that he applies it to PLAYERS that he has chosen.  **

Hence Bodine is not the worst Center in the NFL, so it was not incompetent to Start him. 
(Mike PROVES it was not a bad move and sticks with Bodine by Gauging Bodine from the Bottom. Even being the 32nd Center out of 32 would mean he is better than many backup Centers that can't start. Therefore, not a bad or incompetent Draft pick)

When I watch the Superbowl this week (and Fans watch) we will be analyzing how far off the Bengals are from being Elite like the 2 teams competing.

Will Mike Brown do the same ?

Or will he see his team as 1 of 30 other NFL teams that did not make it. His being 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs. Meaning, he did better than some and therefore he is not incompetent.

Look at his quotes above again.

He seems hell bent on proving that he is not the worst and not trying to prove that he is the best. (As a GM/Owner)

This likely spills over into player retention decisions and never giving up on the Bodine's of the League that Mike handpicked.

Mike's message to fans seems to be:      Better than some = not incompetent

This may be the Target he shoots for which is different than the Target Fans want him to shoot for.

I thought this was pretty much known given all the recent interviews over the past few years?
He cares so much about not being the worst because he was the worst for over a decade.

[fredtoast]

Both Mike and the fans are correct.

Bengals are not the best but they are better than a lot of other teams.

Although Mike wants to win as bad as the fans he is not buying into the "Bengals are worst ever team with worst coaches that start the worst players in the league." line of thinking.

Making the playoffs is not the ultimate goal, but it is not a bad thing like some people here try to claim. And I'll bet that Mike Brown quote about "unacceptable seasons" was after a playoff season instead of either of the last two.

[Pat5775]

I thought this was obvious for years now

[depthchart]

(01-29-2018, 12:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought this was pretty much known given all the recent interviews over the past few years?
He cares so much about not being the worst because he was the worst for over a decade.

It is well known as you say and I doubt that it has suddenly changed. Even though a larger than normal Staff change has occurred.

As we enter Free Agency and the Draft, people seem hopeful that issues will be addressed.  (ie: Cedric/Bodine etc)

Hopeful that the New O-line Coach will have some say in Personnel decisions or that he can fix what seems to be broken players.

He may just be forced to try to fix them, rather than getting an infusion of talent to work with.

My intent here is not to reveal something New.  As you say, it is already known.

Mike seems to have Limits in his own mind.

Maybe an insecurity from being the Son of an NFL Legend.  That it was handed to him.

Having a confidence that he does belong in the GM Club but not enough confidence to Shoot for the Top.

If he applies this to player selections, then he may pass on the next Maurkice Pouncey, (should a Center of that caliber present himself in a Draft), and continue to try to prove that Bodine belongs in the NFL as a starter. A sort of Kinship with Bodine. Prove they do belong instead of upgrade at Center or GM for that matter.

Greatness has to be pursued. (see Tom Coughlin's impact on the Jags in short order - he confidently sought out Upgrades)

I don't think Mike can even help himself here.

I do think that he is doing what he feels is his best, has Proof now that he is not the worst and yet is still trying to prove it.

He needs to shift a Gear in his head that allows him to stop looking behind him and to Focus on what the Great Teams in front of him have.

Then shoot for the Top.

[Shake n Blake]

Think of it this way. Imagine Geoff Hobson owned the team. You know how Hobspin always spins everything as positively as possible? That's Mike Brown. The team owner/GM is a delusional homer. It takes an incredible amount of failure for him to make any changes, and you will always see him defend himself and the results, even if the results are poor.

As fans, it sucks. Who wants to hear "at least we're not the Browns" (basically) from their team owner/GM? That's a real championship attitude right there. I can definitely picture John Elway saying the Broncos record "isn't so bad" over the last 2 years. I can totally picture Robert Kraft or Art Rooney II talking about "mathematical problems"...basically excusing losing and suggesting "you win some, you lose some" in other words.

Seriously, that's a really shitty attitude to have in a team owner/GM, and if you can't admit as much, you're not being honest.

[depthchart]

(01-29-2018, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Both Mike and the fans are correct.

Bengals are not the best but they are better than a lot of other teams.

Although Mike wants to win as bad as the fans he is not buying into the "Bengals are worst ever team with worst coaches that start the worst players in the league." line of thinking.

Making the playoffs is not the ultimate goal, but it is not a bad thing like some people here try to claim.  And I'll bet that Mike Brown quote about "unacceptable seasons" was after a playoff season instead of either of the last two.

I think that Mike has already PROVEN what you said (Bolded above).

5 straight Playoff appearances and having 8 teams in the 2017 Draft and 11 teams in the 2018 Draft pick ahead of his.

He is not incompetent by that standard. He outperforms other GMs.

I think he may rest on these accomplishments and apply this same logic to players he sticks with.

Fans declare say Bodine to be a bad Draft choice. In Mike's mind he found a Starter in Bodine. Maybe not an Elite starter but a starter.
Finding starters in Drafts is a form of success, so when fans complain it rubs Mike the wrong way. He doubles down on Bodine and passes up opportunities to upgrade.

Is this the best Formula for Super Bowl success or does Mike have a different view of what success is ?

Does it cause him to develop soft spots in his heart for borderline players making him pass on Upgrades in Drafts or Free Agency ?

Is he Limited by gauging success from the bottom and not Focusing on what it would take to be on Top ?

Thus staying in the Middle, so to speak.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-29-2018, 01:41 PM)depthchart Wrote: It is well known as you say and I doubt that it has suddenly changed. Even though a larger than normal Staff change has occurred.

As we enter Free Agency and the Draft, people seem hopeful that issues will be addressed.  (ie: Cedric/Bodine etc)

Hopeful that the New O-line Coach will have some say in Personnel decisions or that he can fix what seems to be broken players.

He may just be forced to try to fix them, rather than getting an infusion of talent to work with.

My intent here is not to reveal something New.  As you say, it is already known.

Mike seems to have Limits in his own mind.

Maybe an insecurity from being the Son of an NFL Legend.  That it was handed to him.

Having a confidence that he does belong in the GM Club but not enough confidence to Shoot for the Top.

If he applies this to player selections, then he may pass on the next Maurkice Pouncey, (should a Center of that caliber present himself in a Draft), and continue to try to prove that Bodine belongs in the NFL as a starter. A sort of Kinship with Bodine. Prove they do belong instead of upgrade at Center or GM for that matter.

Greatness has to be pursued. (see Tom Coughlin's impact on the Jags in short order - he confidently sought out Upgrades)

I don't think Mike can even help himself here.

I do think that he is doing what he feels is his best, has Proof now that he is not the worst and yet is still trying to prove it.

He needs to shift a Gear in his head that allows him to stop looking behind him and to Focus on what the Great Teams in front of him have.

Then shoot for the Top.

I really feel Brown treats this franchise as a small business. He knows it's not going to draw in the money like the "big boys" and is content with just making a solid living.
And he's trying to convince his customers to view it in the same light to quit putting too high of expectations.

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2018, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Seriously, that's a really shitty attitude to have in a team owner/GM, and if you can't admit as much, you're not being honest.

It was also annoying to come here and see so many posts about how the Bengals were the worst team in the league when they were making the playoffs five years in a row.

Some Bengals fans put way too much value on their victim cards.  They love to whimper and moan so much that they refuse to acknowledge when the Bengals actually do something good.  It is almost like they are happier when the team fails because they get to brag about being right.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-29-2018, 02:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It was also annoying to come here and see so many posts about how the Bengals were the worst team in the league when they were making the playoffs five years in a row.

Some Bengals fans put way too much value on their victim cards.  They love to whimper and moan so much that they refuse to acknowledge when the Bengals actually do something good.  It is almost like they are happier when the team fails because they get to brag about being right.

I have not seen a single post saying the Bengals are the worst team in the league. Maybe that Mike is the worst owner in the league, but not that that the Bengals have been the worst team in the league over the last 2 years. The rest is just you whining about whiners. This isn't the mothership, Fred. People are allowed to voice any opinion they want (positive or negative) and negativity isn't going to be discouraged or punished as it was on bengals.com.

No one here is happy that the team is failing. That's just you wanting to feel superior to other Bengals fans. The ways to use this board are many. We always talk Bengals, but there is definitely some venting going on at times. Sometimes there is a lot of truth in the venting. Sometimes things get exaggerated out of emotion. This goes both ways. You saying all the negative folks are happy about failure is a blatant exaggeration. Saying Marv is the worst coach in the league is also an exaggeration said out of emotion. 

The people who care the most about "being right" on some anonymous message board are the ones who would knowingly take those emotion-fueled statements and use them to advance their agenda or prove "they are right". 

[J24]

I don't think we're far off infact if a new coach got this roster and was told hey you have free reign to cut and play who you want; that coach would be happy. However we don't have that ability here and that's the reason why this team can't get over the hump.

[BenZoo2]

The problem with ebenezer’s line of thinking is the bottom part of the league has the chance for continual turnover, as furs the top. How many instances are there of teams going worst to first in one year? Draft some impactful rookies, sign good free agents and you can have a big turnaround. Conversely have some key injuries and you can a bad season quickly.

Look at the rams. Get a franchise qb, remove the terrible head coach, sign some key playoffs, poof you’re in the playoffs.

I would think most owners who’s team makes 5 consecutive playoffs would want to get over the hump. Not just he happy being where other teams wish they could be there too. Just wallowing in slightly above mediocrity so no one can say I’m the worst. Pitiful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bengals67]

(01-29-2018, 02:23 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I don't think we're far off infact if a new coach got this roster and was told hey you have free reign to cut and play who you want; that coach would be happy. However we don't have that ability here and that's the reason why this team can't get over the hump.

Bengals are far off from winning a playoff game, making AFC championship or winning a Super Bowl.

They will not win 7 games next year.

[sandwedge]

(01-29-2018, 02:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It was also annoying to come here and see so many posts about how the Bengals were the worst team in the league when they were making the playoffs five years in a row.

Some Bengals fans put way too much value on their victim cards.  They love to whimper and moan so much that they refuse to acknowledge when the Bengals actually do something good.  It is almost like they are happier when the team fails because they get to brag about being right.

No, they're not the worst team, but closer to the bottom than the top. Five years in the playoffs was yesterday's news. You think like Mike Brown, that by just making the playoffs for 5 years, fans should just settle for that and forget we have stunk for the last 2 years. 

[sandwedge]

(01-29-2018, 02:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I have not seen a single post saying the Bengals are the worst team in the league. Maybe that Mike is the worst owner in the league, but not that that the Bengals have been the worst team in the league over the last 2 years. The rest is just you whining about whiners. This isn't the mothership, Fred. People are allowed to voice any opinion they want (positive or negative) and negativity isn't going to be discouraged or punished as it was on bengals.com.

No one here is happy that the team is failing. That's just you wanting to feel superior to other Bengals fans. The ways to use this board are many. We always talk Bengals, but there is definitely some venting going on at times. Sometimes there is a lot of truth in the venting. Sometimes things get exaggerated out of emotion. This goes both ways. You saying all the negative folks are happy about failure is a blatant exaggeration. Saying Marv is the worst coach in the league is also an exaggeration said out of emotion. 

The people who care the most about "being right" on some anonymous message board are the ones who would knowingly take those emotion-fueled statements and use them to advance their agenda or prove "they are right". 

Thank you 

[sandwedge]

(01-29-2018, 02:47 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: The problem with ebenezer’s line of thinking is the bottom part of the league has the chance for continual turnover, as furs the top.  How many instances are there of teams going worst to first in one year?  Draft some impactful rookies, sign good free agents and you can have a big turnaround.  Conversely have some key injuries and you can a bad season quickly.

Look at the rams.  Get a franchise qb, remove the terrible head coach, sign some key playoffs, poof you’re in the playoffs.  

I would think most owners who’s team makes 5 consecutive playoffs would want to get over the hump.  Not just he happy being where other teams wish they could be there too.  Just wallowing in slightly above mediocrity so no one can say I’m the worst.  Pitiful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our record would indicate we are not even at mediocrity 

[*Nately120*]

(01-29-2018, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Although Mike wants to win as bad as the fans he is not buying into the "Bengals are worst ever team with worst coaches that start the worst players in the league." line of thinking.

I'm no mind-reader, but as a behaviorist I must say there is ample evidence that Mike Brown's desire to win does not correlate with actions that correlate with actual winning.  Saying Mike Brown wants to win is like saying I WANT to be in great shape, while you eat ice cream directly out of the carton every night.

I care about action, not this notion that we assume really wants to win because......evidence?

[*PhilHos*]

(01-29-2018, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Think of it this way. Imagine Geoff Hobson owned the team. You know how Hobspin always spins everything as positively as possible? That's Mike Brown. The team owner/GM is a delusional homer. It takes an incredible amount of failure for him to make any changes, and you will always see him defend himself and the results, even if the results are poor.

As fans, it sucks. Who wants to hear "at least we're not the Browns" (basically) from their team owner/GM? That's a real championship attitude right there. I can definitely picture John Elway saying the Broncos record "isn't so bad" over the last 2 years. I can totally picture Robert Kraft or Art Rooney II talking about "mathematical problems"...basically excusing losing and suggesting "you win some, you lose some" in other words.

Seriously, that's a really shitty attitude to have in a team owner/GM, and if you can't admit as much, you're not being honest.

Here's the thing: Mike's attitude isn't that bad to have as an owner. The problem is that he's also the GM and the GM should NOT be content with having a team that's not THAT dad.

[McC]

(01-29-2018, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Think of it this way. Imagine Geoff Hobson owned the team. You know how Hobspin always spins everything as positively as possible? That's Mike Brown. The team owner/GM is a delusional homer. It takes an incredible amount of failure for him to make any changes, and you will always see him defend himself and the results, even if the results are poor.

As fans, it sucks. Who wants to hear "at least we're not the Browns" (basically) from their team owner/GM? That's a real championship attitude right there. I can definitely picture John Elway saying the Broncos record "isn't so bad" over the last 2 years. I can totally picture Robert Kraft or Art Rooney II talking about "mathematical problems"...basically excusing losing and suggesting "you win some, you lose some" in other words.

Seriously, that's a really shitty attitude to have in a team owner/GM, and if you can't admit as much, you're not being honest.

Look at the Titans.  They made the playoffs, WON A PLAYOFF GAME, and still fired their HC.  Just try and picture that ever happening here.

[McC]

(01-29-2018, 03:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm no mind-reader, but as a behaviorist I must say there is ample evidence that Mike Brown's desire to win does not correlate with actions that correlate with actual winning.  Saying Mike Brown wants to win is like saying I WANT to be in great shape, while you eat ice cream directly out of the carton every night.

I care about action, not this notion that we assume really wants to win because......evidence?

Exactly right.  He says he wants to win a SB then goes out of his way to reward mediocrity and prove what a big fat liar he truly is.