Mike may gauge team/player success by comparing to the bottom, not the Top

[Hoofhearted]

(01-29-2018, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Both Mike and the fans are correct.

Bengals are not the best but they are better than a lot of other teams.

Although Mike wants to win as bad as the fans he is not buying into the "Bengals are worst ever team with worst coaches that start the worst players in the league." line of thinking.

Making the playoffs is not the ultimate goal, but it is not a bad thing like some people here try to claim.  And I'll bet that Mike Brown quote about "unacceptable seasons" was after a playoff season instead of either of the last two.

(01-29-2018, 02:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It was also annoying to come here and see so many posts about how the Bengals were the worst team in the league when they were making the playoffs five years in a row.

Some Bengals fans put way too much value on their victim cards.  They love to whimper and moan so much that they refuse to acknowledge when the Bengals actually do something good.  It is almost like they are happier when the team fails because they get to brag about being right.

Funny thing is, you're willing to give the owner a pass for saying this but not the fans. May I ask why that is? 

[*PhilHos*]

(01-29-2018, 03:57 PM)McC Wrote: Exactly right.  He says he wants to win a SB then goes out of his way to reward mediocrity and prove what a big fat liar he truly is.

I think Mike wants to win a SB, but he wants to win one doing things HIS way.

[sandwedge]

(01-29-2018, 03:58 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think Mike wants to win a SB, but he wants to win one doing things HIS way.

In other words, not going to happen.....

[McC]

(01-29-2018, 03:58 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think Mike wants to win a SB, but he wants to win one doing things HIS way.

That may be, but, at least for now, I'm sticking with big fat liar.

[Hoofhearted]

(01-29-2018, 03:58 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think Mike wants to win a SB, but he wants to win one doing things HIS way.

The fact we have to question it says everything IMO.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-29-2018, 12:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought this was pretty much known given all the recent interviews over the past few years?
He cares so much about not being the worst because he was the worst for over a decade.

Yep.

[BenZoo2]

(01-29-2018, 04:02 PM)McC Wrote: That may be, but, at least for now, I'm sticking with big fat liar.

For a minute there I thought you were going to go with the liar liar pants on fire defense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[depthchart]

(01-29-2018, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Think of it this way. Imagine Geoff Hobson owned the team. You know how Hobspin always spins everything as positively as possible? That's Mike Brown. The team owner/GM is a delusional homer. It takes an incredible amount of failure for him to make any changes, and you will always see him defend himself and the results, even if the results are poor.

As fans, it sucks. Who wants to hear "at least we're not the Browns" (basically) from their team owner/GM? That's a real championship attitude right there. I can definitely picture John Elway saying the Broncos record "isn't so bad" over the last 2 years. I can totally picture Robert Kraft or Art Rooney II talking about "mathematical problems"...basically excusing losing and suggesting "you win some, you lose some" in other words.

Seriously, that's a really shitty attitude to have in a team owner/GM, and if you can't admit as much, you're not being honest.

"Mathematical problems"

Mike Brown quote: "This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad."

Mike's father Paul founded the team to whip up on the Browns and win Super Bowls with uniform colors similar to the Browns.


I doubt that Paul ever even thought of "mathematical issues" being a "league problem" causing half of the teams & their leadership to look bad.

It is just a poor starting point for the Mind of a GM to work from.

How do I beat 31 other teams should be the starting point of a GM's mind.  IMO

I also fear that Mike applies the "mathematical issue" to players on his Roster. Just because a Starter is in the bottom half of other starters in the NFL does not mean that starter is bad. Just mathematically challenged.

Conclusion - Mike can stick with that starter and not upgrade.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-29-2018, 04:12 PM)depthchart Wrote: "Mathematical problems"

Mike Brown quote: "This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad."

Mike's father Paul founded the team to whip up on the Browns and win Super Bowls with uniform colors similar to the Browns.


I doubt that Paul ever even thought of "mathematical issues" being a "league problem" causing half of the teams & their leadership to look bad.

It is just a poor starting point for the Mind of a GM to work from.

How do I beat 31 other teams should be the starting point of a GM's mind.  IMO

I also fear that Mike applies the "mathematical issue" to players on his Roster. Just because a Starter is in the bottom half of other starters in the NFL does not mean that starter is bad. Just mathematically challenged.

Conclusion - Mike can stick with that starter and not upgrade.

Wasn't there a push a few years ago to add a couple more teams to the playoff format? IIRC, it was part of shortening the preseason to 2 games and then adding 2 teams from each conference to the playoffs and taking away the first round byes.

I bring this up because I wonder if Mike was REALLY pushing to make this happen.

[depthchart]

(01-29-2018, 04:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Wasn't there a push a few years ago to add a couple more teams to the playoff format? IIRC, it was part of shortening the preseason to 2 games and then adding 2 teams from each conference to the playoffs and taking away the first round byes.

I bring this up because I wonder if Mike was REALLY pushing to make this happen.

I am not sure where Mike stood on this.

His team was making the Playoffs a few years ago, so he may not have wanted more teams added at that time.

[*Nately120*]

(01-29-2018, 03:58 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think Mike wants to win a SB, but he wants to win one doing things HIS way.

Is this really acceptable?  I mean, if I'm sitting on the couch watching TV for the 900th day in a row and my wife is like "Why don't you go get a job so we can pay our bills?" would it be ok for me to say "Oh, I want a job.  I want a really good job and I want to make lots of money and pay the hell out of these bills, but I want to do it MY way."

It's a results-oriented world...unless you are obscenely rich and can only be fired by yourself.  Mike Brown wants to make money and give his friends and family members great jobs and security.  That is what he wants.  I can't knock the guy for that.  Based upon his actions, he wants THAT, not to win a SB.

td,dr = Mike Brown wants to win like every schmo at karaoke night wants to be the next Paul McCartney/Bono/Elvis/Doodletown Pipers, etc.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-29-2018, 04:01 PM)sandwedge Wrote: In other words, not going to happen.....

Well, it's POSSIBLE, but if we do win the Super Bowl it's not because we did things Mike's way,b ut rather we just got really lucky or someone played/coached WAY above their abilities or all the other teams were hit with major injuries.

(01-29-2018, 04:02 PM)McC Wrote: That may be, but, at least for now, I'm sticking with big fat liar.

You gotta do what you gotta do.

(01-29-2018, 04:03 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The fact we have to question it says everything IMO.

True dat, home slice.

(01-29-2018, 04:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Is this really acceptable?  I mean, if I'm sitting on the couch watching TV for the 900th day in a row and my wife is like "Why don't you go get a job so we can pay our bills?" would it be ok for me to say "Oh, I want a job.  I want a really good job and I want to make lots of money and pay the hell out of these bills, but I want to do it MY way."

It's a results-oriented world...unless you are obscenely rich and can only be fired by yourself.  Mike Brown wants to make money and give his friends and family members great jobs and security.  That is what he wants.  I can't knock the guy for that.  Based upon his actions, he wants THAT, not to win a SB.

td,dr = Mike Brown wants to win like every schmo at karaoke night wants to be the next Paul McCartney/Bono/Elvis/Doodletown Pipers, etc.

Of course it's not acceptable. And Mike's desire to win a Super Bowl may not be enough to get him to change his ways, but I don't doubt he wants to win one. Pretty much like your "tl,dr" says. Or it's like a smoker who wants to quit smoking but not enough that he does whatever is necessary to quit.

[*Nately120*]

(01-29-2018, 04:54 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Of course it's not acceptable. And Mike's desire to win a Super Bowl may not be enough to get him to change his ways, but I don't doubt he wants to win one. Pretty much like your "tl,dr" says. Or it's like a smoker who wants to quit smoking but not enough that he does whatever is necessary to quit.

My point is that just wanting something to magically happen to you without putting in the effort doesn't really can't as wanting it, in my book.  Perhaps I'm a bit harsh (and let's not compare it to smoking, unless you honestly think Mike Brown is addicted to losing!), but you can swear on a stack of Bibles that you WANT something, but if you don't do what it takes to get it, you don't want it.

Deep down everyone who wants to be a famous singer by singing at the Podunk PA karaoke night every Wednesday has to realize that Berry Gordy hain't walking through that door looking to sign the next David Ruffin.

Mike Brown either doesn't care about winning, or he thinks he's trying to win and is therefore mentally unfit to run the team.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-29-2018, 03:46 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's the thing: Mike's attitude isn't that bad to have as an owner. The problem is that he's also the GM and the GM should NOT be content with having a team that's not THAT dad.

Idk Phil, I hate hearing that weak talk from anyone in the organization, but you're right that it's worse when it's a key decision maker.

(01-29-2018, 03:55 PM)McC Wrote: Look at the Titans.  They made the playoffs, WON A PLAYOFF GAME, and still fired their HC.  Just try and picture that ever happening here.

That's a team with a vision and expectations. I'm not saying it will pay off, but they weren't content. Mularky got canned because their prize QB regressed hard this year. Mike would look at those results and reward it. He wouldn't look at the bigger picture. Heck, he's rewarding a 13-18-1 record over the last 2 seasons, based on the performance in a couple meaningless games. Talk about low standards.

(01-29-2018, 04:12 PM)depthchart Wrote: "Mathematical problems"

Mike Brown quote: "This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad."

Mike's father Paul founded the team to whip up on the Browns and win Super Bowls with uniform colors similar to the Browns.


I doubt that Paul ever even thought of "mathematical issues" being a "league problem" causing half of the teams & their leadership to look bad.

It is just a poor starting point for the Mind of a GM to work from.

How do I beat 31 other teams should be the starting point of a GM's mind.  IMO

I also fear that Mike applies the "mathematical issue" to players on his Roster. Just because a Starter is in the bottom half of other starters in the NFL does not mean that starter is bad. Just mathematically challenged.

Conclusion - Mike can stick with that starter and not upgrade.

Exactly. Just that one statement is a peek into the overall mentality of Mike Brown. His standards of success are very low, and any talk of championships rings hollow based on his actions.

[Hoofhearted]

(01-29-2018, 04:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: My point is that just wanting something to magically happen to you without putting in the effort doesn't really can't as wanting it, in my book.  Perhaps I'm a bit harsh (and let's not compare it to smoking, unless you honestly think Mike Brown is addicted to losing!), but you can swear on a stack of Bibles that you WANT something, but if you don't do what it takes to get it, you don't want it.

Deep down everyone who wants to be a famous singer by singing at the Podunk PA karaoke night every Wednesday has to realize that Berry Gordy hain't walking through that door looking to sign the next David Ruffin.

Mike Brown either doesn't care about winning, or he thinks he's trying to win and is therefore mentally unfit to run the team.

You already know the answer to that, but yeah, probably a bit harsh. The guy probably quit smoking at work, but still smokes at home occasionally. He can *say* he quit smoking and everyone will think so because he doesn't smoke at work anymore. But he does at home, so is he really trying to quit or just saying it? Can still be both, but still doesn't make much sense to be half-in, half-out.  

[Millhouse]

[sandwedge]

Would there even be a team in Cincinnati anymore if there wasn't revenue sharing?

[fortyyearfan]

(01-29-2018, 12:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought this was pretty much known given all the recent interviews over the past few years?
He cares so much about not being the worst because he was the worst for over a decade.

The center that played for Ohio State should be pick number 12.Yes,he is that good,and he will not be a reason for losing.He will be a first year pro-bowler.Play the two rooks along with him and boling and are line will be fixed.Look how good the two rooks played last two games,and they should have been starting whole year,mr marvin lewis.Fix the O-line and andy will have more time and he will quit baling all game and actually increase his acturacy.We as fans can only hope they are an improved team as big ben says he is going to play 3 more years, and that means 3 more years of them owning the division.They will be even better this season and unless we are as well,its going to be another long long losing season.

[Interceptor]

(01-29-2018, 12:43 PM)depthchart Wrote: The 2016 Bengal team finished 6-9-1 and 5th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

The 2017 Bengal team finished 7-9 and 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

                                          ** A year over year improvement from 2016 to 2017. **

Now three Mike Brown quotes from the past:

"This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad."

“Yes, we want to win a playoff game, we want to win the Super Bowl. So do a lot of other teams, most of which have not gotten as far as we've gotten."


"We have not had a record that is unacceptable over the last half dozen years. I wish it was better but it was in many ways getting into the playoffs better than most."

End of Mike Brown quotes.

It seems to me, (The OP here), that Mike Brown has a mindset of gauging how he is doing versus the bottom of the league, rather than comparing his team to the Elite teams of the NFL each year.

The 2017 Bengals were in the Top 30% of the 10 AFC teams that did not qualify for the Playoffs. (7 other AFC teams finished BEHIND them)

Mike seems to use success against the teams that finished beneath him as Proof that he is competent. In a sense it is Proof of a certain level of competency, however, Fans are Gauging by looking at the Top/Elite teams. Mike seems to gauge from the bottom.

Fans see how far removed we are from the Patriots & Steelers of the AFC.

Mike offers Proof that he is NOT incompetent by referring to the teams he finished ahead of.

**  If he has this Mindset with his team then it seems logical that he applies it to PLAYERS that he has chosen.  **

Hence Bodine is not the worst Center in the NFL, so it was not incompetent to Start him. 
(Mike PROVES it was not a bad move and sticks with Bodine by Gauging Bodine from the Bottom. Even being the 32nd Center out of 32 would mean he is better than many backup Centers that can't start. Therefore, not a bad or incompetent Draft pick)

When I watch the Superbowl this week (and Fans watch) we will be analyzing how far off the Bengals are from being Elite like the 2 teams competing.

Will Mike Brown do the same ?

Or will he see his team as 1 of 30 other NFL teams that did not make it. His being 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs. Meaning, he did better than some and therefore he is not incompetent.

Look at his quotes above again.

He seems hell bent on proving that he is not the worst and not trying to prove that he is the best. (As a GM/Owner)

This likely spills over into player retention decisions and never giving up on the Bodine's of the League that Mike handpicked.

Mike's message to fans seems to be:      Better than some = not incompetent

This may be the Target he shoots for which is different than the Target Fans want him to shoot for.

This says he does not strive for excellence, only that he makes sure he's not last. This team is doomed until he is gone.

[*bengalfan74*]

I've tried to make this point before and probably didn't do a good job of it, perhaps Nately or somebody can say it better ?

I don't doubt Mike "likes" winning. I mean who doesn't ? It's much better than the alternative !

But Mike doesn't really [b]"want" to win. With want being deep desire, driven towards, striving for, determined to accomplish, or however you want to put it.

Winning isn't his true top of the heap goal. It's not the focus. Like others have said making money is what he "wants" but he can't come out and admit that.

And we're stuck with the results.[/b]