Mike may gauge team/player success by comparing to the bottom, not the Top

[McC]

(01-29-2018, 08:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've tried to make this point before and probably didn't do a good job of it, perhaps Nately or somebody can say it better ?

I don't doubt Mike "likes" winning. I mean who doesn't ? It's much better than the alternative !

But Mike doesn't really [b]"want" to win. With want being deep desire, driven towards, striving for, determined to accomplish, or however you want to put it.

Winning isn't his true top of the heap goal. It's not the focus. Like others have said making money is what he "wants" but he can't come out and admit that.

And we're stuck with the results.[/b]

Right.  I think I'd respect him more if he just came out and said, "Sure, winning is nice but the real mission is keep my family and friends employed.  It's my damn team and I'll do what I want with it.  Can't people just get off my back?  Man, the fans are really a pain in my ass.  Super Bowl, Super Bowl, Super Bowl.  It's all I ever hear."

[*Nately120*]

(01-29-2018, 04:54 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Of course it's not acceptable. And Mike's desire to win a Super Bowl may not be enough to get him to change his ways, but I don't doubt he wants to win one. Pretty much like your "tl,dr" says. Or it's like a smoker who wants to quit smoking but not enough that he does whatever is necessary to quit.

Smoking is only comparable to losing if Mike Brown started running a franchise that can't crack 12th place as a teenager so he would "look cool." I can say that Mike Brown sure seems addicted to the status quo and not extending Marvin Lewis would probably give him a pretty bad case of withdrawal.

[t3r3e3]

The rest of the league does not have a math problem. Mike Brown has a math problem. Its called 180-249-3. A career 41% winning percentage as GM/owner. And, to top it off, a career .000 winning percentage in the Playoffs. That record comprises 27 years of epic failure, and is an embarrassment to the city of Cincinnati. Mike Brown's football legacy will be remembered for ineptitude. His way isn't bringing a Lombardi to town.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/BrowMi0.htm

[*Nately120*]

(01-30-2018, 01:39 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The rest of the league does not have a math problem.  Mike Brown has a math problem.  Its called 180-249-3.  A career 41% winning percentage as GM/owner.  And, to top it off, a career .000 winning percentage in the Playoffs.  That record comprises 27 years of epic failure, and is an embarrassment to the city of Cincinnati.  Mike Brown's football legacy will be remembered for ineptitude.  His way isn't bringing a Lombardi to town.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/BrowMi0.htm

Yeah, but Mike Brown finds real value in providing for his family now and after he's gone.  He sort of reminds me of my ol' man who sadly never won a Super Bowl either, but managed to find value in his work regardless, because he provided for his family as a man should.  Of course, you could point out that a guy who works in a factory should be expected to win less Super Bowls than a man who has owned one of the 32 NFL teams for over a quarter of a century, but why pick nits?

[Trademark]

This does not surprise me. Mike is a senile old man

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2018, 02:57 PM)sandwedge Wrote: You think like Mike Brown, that by just making the playoffs for 5 years, fans should just settle for that and forget we have stunk for the last 2 years. 

No.  I never said anything like that at all.  

That is what is called a "straw man" argument.

I am faced with them all the time here.

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2018, 02:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Some Bengals fans put way too much value on their victim cards.  

(01-29-2018, 02:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  negativity isn't going to be discouraged or punished as it was on bengals.com.

This for all those poor souls who were banned from bengals.com for being too negative.  like...... like......

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2018, 03:58 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Funny thing is, you're willing to give the owner a pass for saying this but not the fans. May I ask why that is? 

Not sure what you are saying.

I have no problem with fans who criticize the team, but if you want i can pull up several posts that are nothing but squealing about how Marvin is the worst coach in the league and Mike is the worst owner in the league.

Neither side gets a pass for being too extreme.  And i don't think Mike Brown has ever said that missing the playoffs is "acceptable".  He made those comments after playoff seasons.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-29-2018, 12:43 PM)depthchart Wrote: The 2016 Bengal team finished 6-9-1 and 5th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

The 2017 Bengal team finished 7-9 and 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs.

                                          ** A year over year improvement from 2016 to 2017. **

Now three Mike Brown quotes from the past:

"This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad."

“Yes, we want to win a playoff game, we want to win the Super Bowl. So do a lot of other teams, most of which have not gotten as far as we've gotten."


"We have not had a record that is unacceptable over the last half dozen years. I wish it was better but it was in many ways getting into the playoffs better than most."

End of Mike Brown quotes.

It seems to me, (The OP here), that Mike Brown has a mindset of gauging how he is doing versus the bottom of the league, rather than comparing his team to the Elite teams of the NFL each year.

The 2017 Bengals were in the Top 30% of the 10 AFC teams that did not qualify for the Playoffs. (7 other AFC teams finished BEHIND them)

Mike seems to use success against the teams that finished beneath him as Proof that he is competent. In a sense it is Proof of a certain level of competency, however, Fans are Gauging by looking at the Top/Elite teams. Mike seems to gauge from the bottom.

Fans see how far removed we are from the Patriots & Steelers of the AFC.

Mike offers Proof that he is NOT incompetent by referring to the teams he finished ahead of.

**  If he has this Mindset with his team then it seems logical that he applies it to PLAYERS that he has chosen.  **

Hence Bodine is not the worst Center in the NFL, so it was not incompetent to Start him. 
(Mike PROVES it was not a bad move and sticks with Bodine by Gauging Bodine from the Bottom. Even being the 32nd Center out of 32 would mean he is better than many backup Centers that can't start. Therefore, not a bad or incompetent Draft pick)

When I watch the Superbowl this week (and Fans watch) we will be analyzing how far off the Bengals are from being Elite like the 2 teams competing.

Will Mike Brown do the same ?

Or will he see his team as 1 of 30 other NFL teams that did not make it. His being 8th from the Bottom out of the 10 AFC teams that did not Qualify for the Playoffs. Meaning, he did better than some and therefore he is not incompetent.

Look at his quotes above again.

He seems hell bent on proving that he is not the worst and not trying to prove that he is the best. (As a GM/Owner)

This likely spills over into player retention decisions and never giving up on the Bodine's of the League that Mike handpicked.

Mike's message to fans seems to be:      Better than some = not incompetent

This may be the Target he shoots for which is different than the Target Fans want him to shoot for.

It's mediocrity at its finest.....it's been the mindset since Marvin retrieved us from the dark ages.

Maybe Son of Paul compares his team to the bottom feeders because, for a little over a decade, he was THE bottom feeder.  It's really all he knows.

However, Mike didn't hand pick Blodine.....that was Piano Man.

[BenZoo2]

(01-30-2018, 10:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you are saying.

I have no problem with fans who criticize the team, but if you want i can pull up several posts that are nothing but squealing about how Marvin is the worst coach in the league and Mike is the worst owner in the league.

Neither side gets a pass for being too extreme.  And i don't think Mike Brown has ever said that missing the playoffs is "acceptable".  He made those comments after playoff seasons.

So Fred, how would you rate the performance of mike brown as an owner? Marvin as a coach?

What criteria did you use?

Where did your ratings rank them compared to their peers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hoofhearted]

(01-30-2018, 10:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you are saying.

I have no problem with fans who criticize the team, but if you want i can pull up several posts that are nothing but squealing about how Marvin is the worst coach in the league and Mike is the worst owner in the league.

Neither side gets a pass for being too extreme.  And i don't think Mike Brown has ever said that missing the playoffs is "acceptable".  He made those comments after playoff seasons.

Nope.

He proved with his actions by resigning a coach with back-to-back losing seasons. 

he rewarded it; he accepted it; he's content with it. No other way to spin it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

For me, Marvin is mediocre (he may be better without Mikey's incompetence looming over him, and he may not), Mike is well below average.  Peep the numbers, they back it up.

[fredtoast]

(01-30-2018, 11:58 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: So Fred, how would you rate the performance of mike brown as an owner?  Marvin as a coach?

What criteria did you use?

Where did your ratings rank them compared to their peers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd say Mike Brown is the worst owner in the league, but I don't think he does not want to win.  The team is the only thing his family has.  I am sure he wants it to be a success.  The problem is that he just does not know how.  His conservative approach to free agency actually makes sense if you are always just looking at the "long run", but when you get a team that is close to competing for a championship you have to take a chance or two in free agency.  

Marvin Lewis is a good coach who has been handicapped by coaching for Mike Brown.

And fans that think ANY owner/GM/coach should listen to what the fans want are clueless.  The ones here who get their panties in a wad because the Bengals never "listen to the fans" would be whimpering no matter which team the rooted for.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-30-2018, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd say Mike Brown is the worst owner in the league, but I don't think he does not want to win.  The team is the only thing his family has.  I am sure he wants it to be a success.  The problem is that he just does not know how.  His conservative approach to free agency actually makes sense if you are always just looking at the "long run", but when you get a team that is close to competing for a championship you have to take a chance or two in free agency.  

Marvin Lewis is a good coach who has been handicapped by coaching for Mike Brown.

And fans that think ANY owner/GM/coach should listen to what the fans want are clueless.  The ones here who get their panties in a wad because the Bengals never "listen to the fans" would be whimpering no matter which team the rooted for.

.....I agree they shouldn't listen to fans, but in this instance, what you have said concerning FA is EXACTLY what many people on these very boards clamored about for years.  That's not whining, and in this instance, the Bengals would be served well to take note.  No one here is a NFL GM, but quite a few are not clueless either.  When you have the track record of MB, you friggin need to start listening to someone, your shitty track record would kinda point to that.

[sandwedge]

(01-30-2018, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd say Mike Brown is the worst owner in the league, but I don't think he does not want to win.  The team is the only thing his family has.  I am sure he wants it to be a success.  The problem is that he just does not know how.  His conservative approach to free agency actually makes sense if you are always just looking at the "long run", but when you get a team that is close to competing for a championship you have to take a chance or two in free agency.  

Marvin Lewis is a good coach who has been handicapped by coaching for Mike Brown.

And fans that think ANY owner/GM/coach should listen to what the fans want are clueless.  The ones here who get their panties in a wad because the Bengals never "listen to the fans" would be whimpering no matter which team the rooted for.

What proof do you have of Merv being handicapped by MB? I have never seen this anywhere, but on here in a post, including yours? 

[sandwedge]

(01-30-2018, 12:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....I agree they shouldn't listen to fans, but in this instance, what you have said concerning FA is EXACTLY what many people on these very boards clamored about for years.  That's not whining, and in this instance, the Bengals would be served well to take note.  No one here is a NFL GM, but quite a few are not clueless either.  When you have the track record of MB, you friggin need to start listening to someone, your shitty track record would kinda point to that.

Exactly! It's a damn message board, where fans can come and ***** if they choose to. We are tired of the old SOB that can't see any further than his wallet. I will grant that MB is a smart man that chooses his words wisely when he speaks to the masses. Everything is so vague and coy.  

[fredtoast]

(01-30-2018, 12:55 PM)sandwedge Wrote: What proof do you have of Merv being handicapped by MB? I have never seen this anywhere, but on here in a post, including yours? 

Have you ever heard of anyone claiming that Mike's approach to free agency hurt the team?

I have seen that brought up a couple of times.

[Derrick]

(01-29-2018, 02:23 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I don't think we're far off infact if a new coach got this roster and was told hey you have free reign to cut and play who you want; that coach would be happy. However we don't have that ability here and that's the reason why this team can't get over the hump.

Let's face it. Mikey has, for reasons unknown, turned over some asst. coaches this off season. Therefore, he can claim he is not an old fuddy-duddy like we all know he is. He rationalizes everything he does.

[grampahol]

I'm a bit struck by just how much professional sports and football in particular are huge distractions from actual important events taking place around the world. What these teams do or don't do in the grand scheme of things in our everyday lives is of so little importance it's astonishing. The actions taken by world leaders often have direct and lasting impacts, both good and bad and yet we seem much more concerned with how one team or player is doing and at the end of the day these things don't really impact our lives any more than the price of used toilet paper. 
I'm going  to go out on a limb and venture to say that if the public paid even a tenth as much attention to who is running our nations as we do with who's playing whatever position on whatever team we'd be in much better shape as a nation and by extension we'd have a better world. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-30-2018, 01:03 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Exactly! It's a damn message board, where fans can come and ***** if they choose to. We are tired of the old SOB that can't see any further than his wallet. I will grant that MB is a smart man that chooses his words wisely when he speaks to the masses. Everything is so vague and coy.  

Yup.....pretty much the reason message boards exist.....to discuss.

Agreed.....getting tired of it.  My best friend since grade school, a lifelong fan, has checked out.  He's not even watching until SoP is gone....picking another team too.  I haven't taken it that far, but I'll not be buying any merch/tix, and if there is something better to do or watch, I won't be watching either.