2015 - an 8 and 0 start - #1 in the Power Rankings – Mike & Marvin’s Peak time

[depthchart]

I remember watching it scroll across the bottom of the screen on NFL network in 2015.

Power Rankings #1 - Bengals

Ahead of the Patriots, Seahawks, Denver and others.  Bengals #1 Power Ranked team.

I'd wait for 5 minutes just to watch it scroll by again.  Totally stoked.  Totally amazed.

This was Mike & Marvin's Peak Time.

They actually had their Plans align into a formidable team.

Proves to me it is "possible" for them to show an aptitude for NFL Football.

It was the 5th straight Playoff year and the Peak team. Mike & Marvin were far from being "clowns" at that time.

8 and 0, number 1 in the Power Rankings. Remember that comeback win against the Seahawks.

We all know how things unraveled from there. Dalton's injury takes the wind out of every Bengal fan. Loss to Denver without MVP caliber at the time Dalton takes home field advantage in the Playoffs away. AJ fills in well but not at MVP level. Ahead of the Steelers in the playoff game with 1:27 remaining on the clock after the Jeremy Hill fumble & in field goal range, then the Burfict hit and Pac Man meltdown.

Then the 0 and 7 in the Playoffs chant begins and the Marvin can't win a Playoff game proclamations.

In fairness to Marvin, he did have them right there. Ball in Hill's hands, field goal range, 1:27 left on the clock. Fumble lost.

To me, Mike & Marvin are more than capable of winning a Playoff game and have proven that they can make consistent Playoff appearances.

I know, 0 and 7 means they never have and therefore never proven they can and therefore blah, blah, blah.

I get all that, however, they did start 8 and 0 (which is a rather rare thing for a team to do) lost an MVP caliber QB at the time and Mike & Marvin were not the ones who fumbled the ball.

Well maybe they didn't coach Hill enough on how to hang onto it or should have kneeled or blah. Or maybe Hill doesn't fumble & we still lose.

I get all of that. Heard it all a thousand times and inside and out.

Would we really be in any better place now had Jeremy Hill not fumbled leading to a Marvin Playoff game win in 2015 ?

Marvin would be 1 and 6 in the Playoffs and "actually proven" that he can win a playoff game.

To me, the 8 and 0 start and number 1 in the Power rankings already proved that they are capable of winning a Playoff game someday & could have easily done so in 2015 with say a healthy Dalton or Hill don't fumble or Burfict clean hits Brown or Pac Man keeps his cool.

But those things didn't happen, blah.  We lost, double blah.

Other coaches win when bad things happen, blah.

I get all that.

The REAL ISSUE to me is not whether they can put an 8 and 0, number 1 Power ranked team together or make 5 straight Playoff appearances or whether they are capable of maybe actually winning a Playoff game someday. I think they can.

The REAL ISSUE is that they have some sort of self imposed FUNDAMENTAL LIMITATIONS in how they put their rosters together. They make very decisive decisions to turn over the reigns of important positions like Left Tackle to unproven players or dumpster dive for linebackers or settle for marginal starters at say the Center position.

They get 90% of the way there in roster quality and don't turn on the jets to Lock Down that extra 10% of roster quality (let Whitworth go) or pass on say a better Center in a Draft because ours is "serviceable" etc.

2015 roster Peak years are few and far between is the issue to me.  (Not can Marvin win a Playoff game - he was 8 and 0)

Draft a guy that can beat out a "Penciled in starter". If he beats him out then you UPGRADED that position. If not, you have depth, if so you have depth.

Don't just settle for the "Penciled in starter".

Upgrade and PURSUE that extra 10%.  Reach for Greatness as a Front Office. It is not impossible with new thinking.

To my own rant I say "blah" and others are welcome to say "blah" to it.

Yet in my mind, Mike & Marvin have shown some capability while at the same time find ways to shoot themselves in the foot. (see Whitworth)

In the end, it is their Reputation and not mine. They have to want to PUSH to be better and not rest on 8 and 0 or 5 straight.

To end this, I say "blah" to my own rant.

[jj22]

Ahh, the Number 1 Power Ranking......

The kiss of death in 2005, 2013, and 2015.

[depthchart]

(02-08-2018, 01:49 PM)jj22 Wrote: Ahh, the Number 1 Power Ranking......

The kiss of death in 2005, 2013, and 2015.

Mike & Marvin did have their hands on it for a brief time which is somewhat amazing, I admit.

Caught Lightning in a bottle but they did catch it.

Offers some Hope but it is still Mike & Marvin.

Quite a "Conundrum" for fans.

[fredtoast]

In '06 we also reached #1 in DR Z's (Sports Illustrated) rankings when we started the season 3-0 with road wins against Defending Super Bowl Champion Steelers and playoff bound Chiefs.  

We had won 16 of our last 21 regular season games at that point but then only won 16 of our next 46.

I know every team has injuries, but that '06 team was crushed with injuries as well as suspensions. Rich Braham, David Pollack, Levi Jones, Bobbie Williams, Odell Thurman, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Jeremy Johnson, Ahmad Brooks, Chris Henry, Dexter Jackson, Deltha O'Neal, Brian Simmons, and Chris Perry all missed part (or all) of that season.

Pollack, Braham, and Thurman never returned and Levi Jones never fully recovered from his injury

[jj22]

You're right Fred. It was 06 not 05.

[XenoMorph]

(02-08-2018, 01:36 PM)depthchart Wrote: I remember watching it scroll across the bottom of the screen on NFL network in 2015.

Power Rankings #1 - Bengals

Ahead of the Patriots, Seahawks, Denver and others.  Bengals #1 Power Ranked team.

I'd wait for 5 minutes just to watch it scroll by again.  Totally stoked.  Totally amazed.

This was Mike & Marvin's Peak Time.

They actually had their Plans align into a formidable team.

Proves to me it is "possible" for them to show an aptitude for NFL Football.

It was the 5th straight Playoff year and the Peak team. Mike & Marvin were far from being "clowns" at that time.

8 and 0, number 1 in the Power Rankings. Remember that comeback win against the Seahawks.

We all know how things unraveled from there. Dalton's injury takes the wind out of every Bengal fan. Loss to Denver without MVP caliber at the time Dalton takes home field advantage in the Playoffs away. AJ fills in well but not at MVP level. Ahead of the Steelers in the playoff game with 1:27 remaining on the clock after the Jeremy Hill fumble & in field goal range, then the Burfict hit and Pac Man meltdown.

Then the 0 and 7 in the Playoffs chant begins and the Marvin can't win a Playoff game proclamations.

In fairness to Marvin, he did have them right there. Ball in Hill's hands, field goal range, 1:27 left on the clock. Fumble lost.

To me, Mike & Marvin are more than capable of winning a Playoff game and have proven that they can make consistent Playoff appearances.

I know, 0 and 7 means they never have and therefore never proven they can and therefore blah, blah, blah.

I get all that, however, they did start 8 and 0 (which is a rather rare thing for a team to do) lost an MVP caliber QB at the time and Mike & Marvin were not the ones who fumbled the ball.

Well maybe they didn't coach Hill enough on how to hang onto it or should have kneeled or blah. Or maybe Hill doesn't fumble & we still lose.

I get all of that. Heard it all a thousand times and inside and out.

Would we really be in any better place now had Jeremy Hill not fumbled leading to a Marvin Playoff game win in 2015 ?

Marvin would be 1 and 6 in the Playoffs and "actually proven" that he can win a playoff game.

To me, the 8 and 0 start and number 1 in the Power rankings already proved that they are capable of winning a Playoff game someday & could have easily done so in 2015 with say a healthy Dalton or Hill don't fumble or Burfict clean hits Brown or Pac Man keeps his cool.

But those things didn't happen, blah.  We lost, double blah.

Other coaches win when bad things happen, blah.

I get all that.

The REAL ISSUE to me is not whether they can put an 8 and 0, number 1 Power ranked team together or make 5 straight Playoff appearances or whether they are capable of maybe actually winning a Playoff game someday. I think they can.

The REAL ISSUE is that they have some sort of self imposed FUNDAMENTAL LIMITATIONS in how they put their rosters together. They make very decisive decisions to turn over the reigns of important positions like Left Tackle to unproven players or dumpster dive for linebackers or settle for marginal starters at say the Center position.

They get 90% of the way there in roster quality and don't turn on the jets to Lock Down that extra 10% of roster quality (let Whitworth go) or pass on say a better Center in a Draft because ours is "serviceable" etc.

2015 roster Peak years are few and far between is the issue to me.  (Not can Marvin win a Playoff game - he was 8 and 0)

Draft a guy that can beat out a "Penciled in starter". If he beats him out then you UPGRADED that position. If not, you have depth, if so you have depth.

Don't just settle for the "Penciled in starter".

Upgrade and PURSUE that extra 10%.  Reach for Greatness as a Front Office. It is not impossible with new thinking.

To my own rant I say "blah" and others are welcome to say "blah" to it.

Yet in my mind, Mike & Marvin have shown some capability while at the same time find ways to shoot themselves in the foot. (see Whitworth)

In the end, it is their Reputation and not mine. They have to want to PUSH to be better and not rest on 8 and 0 or 5 straight.

To end this, I say "blah" to my own rant.

You also don't reach in the draft for a guy you don't have ranked that high if someone of better value is sitting in your lap... You gotta play the board and its a crap shoot in itself.

If the bengals had say kept drafting centers   and they didn't work out or weren't huge upgrades.. Now not only have we not improved the OC  but we missed out on other potential players as well..

.You can keep pointing at whitworth for everything...  while we all wanted to keep with even mike and marvin.  You also have to look forward and time was not on whitworths side anymore.

Yes he played at an all pro level this year.  FOR the RAMS but we don't know what whould have happened here if he stayed.  IT was a risk either way to let him go or to keep a what 34+ year old LT... especially when you drafted one in the 1st round and need to play him before you have to really pay him.

If we had signed whitworth and he declined badly you would be bashing them for keeping an aging player.   Hinesight is always easy to be right in. but even then its just speculation

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2018, 01:36 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, Mike & Marvin are more than capable of winning a Playoff game and have proven that they can make consistent Playoff appearances.

Since 2011 the Bengals have beaten 14 playoff teams in the regular season including many of the best of the best (Patriots, Packers, Broncos, Seahawks, Saints, Steelers, Ravens).

Their winning percentage against playoff teams over that span is 12th best in the league.

[depthchart]

(02-08-2018, 02:26 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: You also don't reach in the draft for a guy you don't have ranked that high if someone of better value is sitting in your lap... You gotta play the board and its a crap shoot in itself.

If the bengals had say kept drafting centers   and they didn't work out or weren't huge upgrades.. Now not only have we not improved the OC  but we missed out on other potential players as well..

.You can keep pointing at whitworth for everything...  while we all wanted to keep with even mike and marvin.  You also have to look forward and time was not on whitworths side anymore.

Yes he played at an all pro level this year.  FOR the RAMS but we don't know what whould have happened here if he stayed.  IT was a risk either way to let him go or to keep a what 34+ year old LT... especially when you drafted one in the 1st round and need to play him before you have to really pay him.

If we had signed whitworth and he declined badly you would be bashing them for keeping an aging player.   Hinesight is always easy to be right in. but even then its just speculation

I agree that this involves speculation.

My Whitworth point is more about not handing off certain positions without having a high degree of certainty that the person you are handing it off to will do the job. Left Tackle is one such position. Don't mess around with that position. Be as certain as possible and Cedric had uncertainty surrounding him.

As for the Center comment I made. It is not about Drafting say a Center constantly until your penciled in starter gets beat out. It is more about "being open" to the possibility of pulling the trigger on one should say a Maurkice Pouncey caliber guy be sitting their when you pick.

I think Mike "pencils in" say Bodine and feels more than comfortable focusing on other positions without being at least "open" to the possibility of an upgrade. It is being "open" to possibly doing it under the right circumstances that I am focusing on here. Not Drafting Centers left and right. Just keep an eye out for potential greatness at that position if it happens to be sitting there in a Draft. Keep an eye on all positions so as not to pass on Greatness or a solid upgrade. Then decide from all options.

[sandwedge]

Not sure how to feel about that? Those were fun seasons to watch and be a Bengals fans, but in the end we only got kicked in the sack...

[*ochocincos*]

You would have thought the logical thing to do going into 2016 was realize how close the Bengals were the year before and go "all-in" to take it even higher.
Instead we saw the Bengals lose a lot of talent (Jones, Sanu, Nelson, Gilberry, Smith, Hue) and pick up mediocre replacements.
And a lot of that money was being "reserved" for extensions and ended up only re-signing the worst of the "Big 3" in Kirkpatrick.
So unless the Bengals really do change their approach to FA and/or the draft, I don't see the Bengals getting back to 2015 form within the next 1-2 years.

[depthchart]

(02-08-2018, 02:51 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not sure how to feel about that? Those were fun seasons to watch and be a Bengals fans, but in the end we only got kicked in the sack...

The "kicked in the sack" endings for our best built teams seem to always be in the cards like clockwork.

We did get to do it to the Ravens this year. That one had to hurt.

[depthchart]

(02-08-2018, 02:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You would have thought the logical thing to do going into 2016 was realize how close the Bengals were the year before and go "all-in" to take it even higher.
Instead we saw the Bengals lose a lot of talent (Jones, Sanu, Nelson, Gilberry, Smith, Hue) and pick up mediocre replacements.
And a lot of that money was being "reserved" for extensions and ended up only re-signing the worst of the "Big 3" in Kirkpatrick.
So unless the Bengals really do change their approach to FA and/or the draft, I don't see the Bengals getting back to 2015 form within the next 1-2 years.

Exactly.

It is too long between Peak teams and then the Peak will likely just be a one season shot at making something Great happen in the Post season before a partial dismantling.

We did have 4 decent teams building up to 2015 but the 2015 team was the special one.

Now another long wait as we try to build things back up to another peak 2015 caliber team.

[depthchart]

(02-08-2018, 02:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You would have thought the logical thing to do going into 2016 was realize how close the Bengals were the year before and go "all-in" to take it even higher.
Instead we saw the Bengals lose a lot of talent (Jones, Sanu, Nelson, Gilberry, Smith, Hue) and pick up mediocre replacements.
And a lot of that money was being "reserved" for extensions and ended up only re-signing the worst of the "Big 3" in Kirkpatrick.
So unless the Bengals really do change their approach to FA and/or the draft, I don't see the Bengals getting back to 2015 form within the next 1-2 years.

I also think this factors into why Mike sticks with Marvin and why Mike goes easy on himself as a GM when fans criticize.

I think they have a Template in place guided by spending on Contracts/position groups and are fully aware that they have to build up towards Peak Roster seasons.

8 and 0 tells them they can have their cake and eat it too someday. Do it their way with their Template.

Little margin for error and their Time horizon for building things up may differ from fans' expectations.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-08-2018, 03:36 PM)depthchart Wrote: I also think this factors into why Mike sticks with Marvin and why Mike goes easy on himself as a GM when fans criticize.

I think they have a Template in place guided by spending on Contracts/position groups and are fully aware that they have to build up towards Peak Roster seasons.

8 and 0 tells them they can have their cake and eat it too someday. Do it their way with their Template.

Little margin for error and their Time horizon for building things up may differ from fans' expectations.

Yea I think this makes a lot of sense when it comes to Mike Brown justifying his operations, but at the end of the day, it's the fans' decision on whether to buy in or not.
We all have a choice to determine what our own expectations are, even if our expectations may seem unreasonable to some.
But I think Mike Brown views the fan base in this manner: I can always move the team if the fans don't show up.

[Hoofhearted]

Congrats! Sounds like you're on the last part of the process of grieving

[sandwedge]

(02-08-2018, 03:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea I think this makes a lot of sense when it comes to Mike Brown justifying his operations, but at the end of the day, it's the fans' decision on whether to buy in or not.
We all have a choice to determine what our own expectations are, even if our expectations may seem unreasonable to some.
But I think Mike Brown views the fan base in this manner: I can always move the team if the fans don't show up.

IDK, maybe I am kidding myself, but I honestly MB will never move this team. He's got a sweet deal there in Cincinnati.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-08-2018, 04:40 PM)sandwedge Wrote: IDK, maybe I am kidding myself, but I honestly MB will never move this team. He's got a sweet deal there in Cincinnati.

Obvious speculation of course, but....
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/12/10/16755860/could-the-bengals-be-leaving-cincinnati-in-the-near-future

[Yojimbo]

Power rankings in any sport are bullshit. It gets you absolutely nothing. Winning conferences, playoff games and championships are the only thing that matters.

[depthchart]

(02-08-2018, 04:58 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Power rankings in any sport are bullshit. It gets you absolutely nothing. Winning conferences, playoff games and championships are the only thing that matters.

I get that, however, they were 8 and 0 which is half a season undefeated in the NFL. Comeback win against the Seahawks.

Mike & Marvin's best showing, so to speak and shows they have some football aptitude with still more to prove.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-08-2018, 05:08 PM)depthchart Wrote: I get that, however, they were 8 and 0 which is half a season undefeated in the NFL. Comeback win against the Seahawks.

Mike & Marvin's best showing, so to speak and shows they have some football aptitude with still more to prove.

I wish they'd hurry up and prove it, or get off the pot.