Comp Pick

[BengalChris]

(02-11-2018, 10:53 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Brian Dawkins makes 3, and Hines Ward likely makes it 4 with the “played for Steelers Championship teams” voting bump, a la Stallworth and Swann.

But, of course, the Bengals don't make those kind of picks.

[McC]

(02-11-2018, 06:11 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Good Lord man he is 82 years old. Lets go for the damn thing instead of pinching pennies!
I remember before last season started that I was hoping to sign free agents and just assuming that we were keeping Whitworth , Zeitler and Fitzpatrick. Then we said that Whit and Zeitler were leaving and we didn't do much in FA.  That was mind boggling to me.

It got you mentally prepared for when a similar thing happens this year, free agency-wise, that is.

[McC]

(02-11-2018, 07:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, you must not know me that well.  You'll never read those words off of my fingertips..

Not just cheap but foolish too.   When he does put money out there, he puts it in too many wrong places.  And obviously lacking in foresight.  And won't learn from his past mistakes, a trait he and Marvin share in spades.

If you do something differently than your peers and stick to your guns no matter what, and it pays off, you look like a genius.  If you do things differently than all your peers and stick to your guns no matter what and it never pays off, you look like a world class dumbass.

When you think about it, Mike is either lying about wanting to win the big one or he is a really big idiot.  What other conclusion is there?

Mike, when you get to a fork in the road and every fiber of your being says go left, in the future, by all means, go right.

[bengalhoel]

(02-12-2018, 01:30 AM)McC Wrote: Not just cheap but foolish too.   When he does put money out there, he puts it in too many wrong places.  And obviously lacking in foresight.  And won't learn from his past mistakes, a trait he and Marvin share in spades.

If you do something differently than your peers and stick to your guns no matter what, and it pays off, you look like a genius.  If you do things differently than all your peers and stick to your guns no matter what and it never pays off, you look like a world class dumbass.

When you think about it, Mike is either lying about wanting to win the big one or he is a really big idiot.  What other conclusion is there?

Mike, when you get to a fork in the road and every fiber of your being says go left, in the future, by all means, go right.

Savage!! 

[BengalsBong]

I would take a six pack for Whit then and I don't even drink. If the new coaches don't like Boling I would take another sixer for him as well. If you all think Whit would of fixed all our o line issues this past year you are mistaken. He is old as dirt and we needed to move on and we did so no reason to beat that poor dead horse anymore.

[muskiesfan]

(02-12-2018, 10:12 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: I would take a six pack for Whit then and I don't even drink. If the new coaches don't like Boling I would take another sixer for him as well. If you all think Whit would of fixed all our o line issues this past year you are mistaken. He is old as dirt and we needed to move on and we did so no reason to beat that poor dead horse anymore.

I partially agree with your statement. I love Whitworth and he should have retired a Bengal, however I can understand the thought process of moving on if that's what the team felt was in their best interest. I don't believe that was entirely the case though. According to Lewis, he thought Whit was coming back. Whether that he was his actual thought process or his way of playing the game to try and drive down Whit's market, I don't know. He did go around the combine telling everyone Whit was in the fold.

Another part of moving on is you have to have a back up plan in place. In limited action, Shawn Williams looked like he could potentially step up into Nelson's spot. So the team deciding to go young at that position made some sense. In the Whit situation, Ced had not shown he was able to step in and be an NFL caliber player. He played horribly the season prior, finally got benched, and when put back in, shit the bed again. The only things that Ced has proven is that he is not capable of being a starter in the NFL and that guys Paul Alexander truly believe in turned out to be hot garbage. Ced and Bodine are 2 guys that Alexander hand picked and stood up for at every turn.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I thought the big argument was 1 year deal (Bengals offer) vs 3 years (Rams offer) for Whit.

[grampahol]

I'm not convinced that a 3rd round comp pick at #33 of the 3rd round is that far of a cry from being the first pick of the 4th round. (or whatever round) Nobody has really made that argument, but in some people's minds a comp pick is a curse somehow..
In some people's minds being a college free agent beats being a 7th round pick when in fact it really doesn't matter how a player gets into the league. The fact remains that there have been plenty of CFAs who have had much better careers than first overall picks..

[Luvnit2]

(02-12-2018, 12:59 PM)grampahol Wrote: I'm not convinced that a 3rd round comp pick at #33 of the 3rd round is that far of a cry from being the first pick of the 4th round. (or whatever round) Nobody has really made that argument, but in some people's minds a comp pick is a curse somehow..
In some people's minds being a college free agent beats being a 7th round pick when in fact it really doesn't matter how a player gets into the league. The fact remains that there have been plenty of CFAs who have had much better careers than first overall picks..

I agree, the more picks you have, the better shot a team has at success. But, I think people get upset as it appears the team uses this method almost exclusively. Also, most teams miss on a ton of picks starting in round 3, it is a bot of a crap shoot and injury comes into play as well.

[Benton]

(02-12-2018, 12:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I thought the big argument was 1 year deal (Bengals offer) vs 3 years (Rams offer) for Whit.

That was my impression. Whit wanted to get a multi-year deal so he knew what was in front of him; the Bengals wanted to treat him like Marvin and have it on a year-by-year basis.

[BengalsBong]

(02-12-2018, 10:24 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I partially agree with your statement. I love Whitworth and he should have retired a Bengal, however I can understand the thought process of moving on if that's what the team felt was in their best interest. I don't believe that was entirely the case though. According to Lewis, he thought Whit was coming back. Whether that he was his actual thought process or his way of playing the game to try and drive down Whit's market, I don't know. He did go around the combine telling everyone Whit was in the fold.

Another part of moving on is you have to have a back up plan in place. In limited action, Shawn Williams looked like he could potentially step up into Nelson's spot. So the team deciding to go young at that position made some sense. In the Whit situation, Ced had not shown he was able to step in and be an NFL caliber player. He played horribly the season prior, finally got benched, and when put back in, shit the bed again. The only things that Ced has proven is that he is not capable of being a starter in the NFL and that guys Paul Alexander truly believe in turned out to be hot garbage. Ced and Bodine are 2 guys that Alexander hand picked and stood up for at every turn.

I agree they needed a back up plan in place we had a first and second round pick sitting on the bench to replace both tackles that was our plan. But the plan failed cause we did not coach these players up correctly and play them enough before we released Whit to find out if they could do the job at hand. The fact remains we needed to move on from Whit in any case just should of had our house in order first. Hopefully the new o line coach can help us out and coach some of our guys up and make a solid line for us this coming year. Between a few of our decent back up players like Redmond Westerman and Hopkins, free agency {big if here} and the draft we should be able to fix our o line issues in one offseason other teams can do it we should be able to as well.

[Shouldamapads]

(02-11-2018, 07:18 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: How many comp picks pay off in the entire NFL ? 1 in 25 ? 1 in 50 ? There's probably stats on that somewhere. But I'd say it's a fair bet very few become regular starters. And a tiny portion actually become true impact players !

Well I can find this info:

5th round HOFers.

Year
Player
Team

1944 Bob Waterfield

Cleveland Rams (Drafted as a future selection.)


1945
Pete Pihos
Philadelphia Eagles (Drafted as a future selection.)


1953
Stan Jones
Chicago Bears (Drafted as a future selection.)


1957
Henry Jordan
Cleveland Browns


1959
Dick LeBeau
Cleveland Browns


1974
Mike Webster
Pittsburgh Steelers


1985
Kevin Greene

Los Angeles Rams


Pretty short list here- so I don't expect that we made a great decision.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2018, 06:34 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Maybe Glasgow will be worth it.

I actually like Glasgow. Good run stopper, just hope Billings becomes who i thought he would be.

(02-11-2018, 07:18 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: How many comp picks pay off in the entire NFL ? 1 in 25 ? 1 in 50 ? There's probably stats on that somewhere. But I'd say it's a fair bet very few become regular starters. And a tiny portion actually become true impact players !

Definately a very low percentage that is for sure.

(02-11-2018, 07:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

Yeah, I have done a couple things over the years about how much more it cost the Bengals in picks and dollars to try to replace JJo than if they had just given him the guaranteed money that he wanted.

Pretty sure I did one for Housh, too.

As for the OP, I have done a couple posts in the past listing all of the Bengals comp picks under Lewis. It is an ugly ugly list. It has never paid off for the Bengals.

I remember some of those posts. Sad reality is what they were.

(02-11-2018, 07:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That was the entire point that whomever it was, was attempting to show.  It cost more to replace with several, than it does to just pay the man, to begin with.

Yes and those players like Housh, J-Joe and Whit were hell of players for us.

People always say MB is loyal to a fault, not these times.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-11-2018, 07:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That was the entire point that whomever it was, was attempting to show.  It cost more to replace with several, than it does to just pay the man, to begin with.

This is often the case out here in the real world as well.  People are shortsighted, and seem to only look up at up front costs, vs cost over an extended period of time.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2018, 08:25 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Interesting question.

Early on, 1994 era, there were 1st and 2nd round comp picks, so those are a bit harder to count because they were high picks.

There is only one comp pick in the HoF and that is Larry Allen, who was a 2nd round and pick #46 overall by Dallas in 1994.

Tom Brady was a 6th round comp pick and he'll be HoFer number 2.

Here's a link which lists the top 18 most impactful comp picks. I guess they couldn't come up with 20.

Most Impactful Comp Picks

Considering there are 32 comp picks each year in today's game, 18 out of 32 x 23 (736) years is 2.45% that were impactful. 2.45% would be 1 out of every 48 or so. That's pretty sad. 2 out of 736 have been HoF quality, which is 0.27%. That would only be 1 HoFer by today's rules where the highest comp picks are 3rd rounders.

Good work Chris, bout what i thought.

(02-11-2018, 08:50 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: I have to disagree with you there. I will say that Whit leaving probably is the only reason Alexander isnt here, which I think is a positive.

Yeah and that actually is a big time positive. That is how bad PA was, had to lose Whit in order to lose PA.

And i would do it again, sorry Whit but if Whit was here i truly think we would of made the playoffs last year went
one and done and PA would still be here.

[BURROWorBUST]

(02-11-2018, 06:47 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Does the owner have to pay for SuperBowl rings? If so he would just order one for the whole team and they would have to share it.

[bengals67]

(02-11-2018, 06:02 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Yep, was able to save money not paying Whit while also getting a free 5th rounder under rookie wage scale for 4 years

Bingo :andy:

Plus he had Og under contract to play LT!  Didn't need Whit to field a team.

[bengals67]

Mike is loyal to people who are under contract because cutting them means he has to spend money to replace them.

Mike is loyal to average to poor vets who he can re-sign at below market contracts because they are no good-like Maualuga and the soon to be re-signed Bodine.

Not so loyal to first round pick guards ( we don't pay guards because they are fungible) or long serving pro bowl Whit who declines to take a below market contract for the family's sake.

[*Go Cards*]

Still think letting Whit walk was a huge mistake.

Believe those posting otherwise is proof that Mike Brown posts amongst us on the boards. lol

[*Go Cards*]

(02-11-2018, 06:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Definately the biggest screw up lately letting Whit go.

It was insulting not to give the guy atleast the same contract he got from the Rams. Or at the very least tag him.

I know he was getting up there in terms of age but he always took great care of himself and we all saw from last
season he had years in him. He is a coach off the field to boot. BTW, when is the last time a comp pick paid off for
us? Cannot remember?

Not sure but think Marvin Jones was from a comp pick maybe.