Come on people. Marvin Lewis coming back was likely his choice to return as well as Mike Brown's choice.
The FO made some long needed changes in the coaching staff which helps the cause. At least wait until the draft and Training Camp before losing all hope!
Nevertheless, as long as Mike Brown is anywhere near the buildings, teams, FO, and coaching staff I can understand why some are losing hope.
I know Mr. Brown is a smart man and knows football but he truly does not prioritize WINNING over other facets of the game.
I sense no urgency the team wants to win now approach.
I just feel sorry for AJ Green, Dalton, Atkins, Dunlap and ex-Bengal players that had to endure things like practicing without a practice dome facility, incompetent coaching staff, and reclamation projects like Jones, Slim.
Hang in there friends. I refuse to give up hope. There is too much talent on this team.
-Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.”
(02-15-2018, 03:29 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Come on people. Marvin Lewis coming back was likely his choice to return as well as Mike Brown's choice.
The FO made some long needed changes in the coaching staff which helps the cause. At least wait until the draft and Training Camp before losing all hope!
Nevertheless, as long as Mike Brown is anywhere near the buildings, teams, FO, and coaching staff I can understand why some are losing hope.
I know Mr. Brown is a smart man and knows football but he truly does not prioritize WINNING over other facets of the game.
I sense no urgency the team wants to win now approach.
I just feel sorry for AJ Green, Dalton, Atkins, Dunlap and ex-Bengal players that had to endure things like practicing without a practice dome facility, incompetent coaching staff, and reclamation projects like Jones, Slim.
Hang in there friends. I refuse to give up hope. There is too much talent on this team.
He just makes consistently bad decisions that, when viewed in totality, leads one to the conclusion that Mike Brown has other priorities in mind rather than winning.
I know it is counter-intuitive to think that a person can make bad decisions for over 27 years give or take and be considered smart. But Mr. Brown's bad decisions is not because of stupidity or lack of football knowledge. It is about control, meddling, poor talent acumen, and choosing other priorities over winning. He views the organization as a social agent for change.
-Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.”
(02-15-2018, 03:42 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: He is smart and knows football.
He just makes consistently bad decisions that, when viewed in totality, leads one to the conclusion that Mike Brown has other priorities in mind rather than winning.
I know it is counter-intuitive to think that a person can make bad decisions for over 27 years give or take and be considered smart. But Mr. Brown's bad decisions is not because of stupidity or lack of football knowledge. It is about control, meddling, poor talent acumen, and choosing other priorities over winning. He views the organization as a social agent for change.
Mr. Brown? Who is that? The owner I know goes by nothing but 'the son of Paul'.
Or Mikey-Boi if your a part of the "inner circle".
Deceitful, two-faced she-woman. Never trust a female, Delmar, remember that one simple precept and your time with me will not have been ill spent.
The good news - That fat pasty sumbitch PA is gone and was replaced by an OL coach that coached one of the best O-lines in the NFL over the last few years in Dallas. This is huge and something that was not Bengal like that i loved. Also really like getting Alex Van Pelt in here from Green Bay, Rodgers didn't like losing this guy. Austin might be an upgrade over Paulie G, we will see.
Not all is lost but i will have to see some big moves in FA to believe again. Pollack had a lot of talent over there in Dallas to work with, he doesn't have much of that here and we need to grab atleast one quality O-lineman in FA for him to work with to open up the Draft. Also need a talented LB or two as Haslett i said is back and has been pretty bad here.
(02-15-2018, 02:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 6. I'm ready to laugh at the inevitable Hobspin article that magically whittles down our cap space. It's pure comedy gold. I'm sure there will be plenty of tire kicking with tier D free agents though. Should be exciting to see all the visits we line up in week 3 of free agency.
Welcome back TJ. I am with many on the deflated hopes wagon. The best hope we had in many years was thinking Marvin would be gone. Yet, with that extension, I witnesses a hope turn into a joke and remove the mystery of the ineptitude of Mr. Brown. I guess I already knew he was incapable, but this move was relentless towards the fan-base and the future of the team IMO.
Then I woke up the day after and realized, The Bengals are dead, but the BengalBoard is alive. So when this organization is out of it next year by week 5? At least we have each other.
(02-15-2018, 04:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Welcome back TJ. I am with many on the deflated hopes wagon. The best hope we had in many years was thinking Marvin would be gone. Yet, with that extension, I witnesses a hope turn into a joke and remove the mystery of the ineptitude of Mr. Brown. I guess I already knew he was incapable, but this move was relentless towards the fan-base and the future of the team IMO.
Then I woke up the day after and realized, The Bengals are dead, but the BengalBoard is alive. So when this organization is out of it next year by week 5? At least we have each other.
Damn, that sounded pretty awful.
Not that awful.....this place is probably the only reason I'm still a fan.
(02-15-2018, 03:42 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: He is smart and knows football.
He just makes consistently bad decisions that, when viewed in totality, leads one to the conclusion that Mike Brown has other priorities in mind rather than winning.
I know it is counter-intuitive to think that a person can make bad decisions for over 27 years give or take and be considered smart. But Mr. Brown's bad decisions is not because of stupidity or lack of football knowledge. It is about control, meddling, poor talent acumen, and choosing other priorities over winning. He views the organization as a social agent for change.
I guess it all depends on a persons definition of "smart". To me, someone who makes bad decisions based on control, meddling, poor talent acumen and choosing other priorities over winning is not "smart". I'd say he's more selfish and delusional than intelligent.
Mike is clearly out of his element when it comes to running a pro football franchise. I don't where you get the idea that the man knows football. He seems to genuinely believe he's doing the best he possibly can to win. He's constantly defending his actions and leading us to believe we're only a few pieces and/or lucky bounces away from winning it all.
(02-15-2018, 05:54 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I guess it all depends on a persons definition of "smart". To me, someone who makes bad decisions based on control, meddling, poor talent acumen and choosing other priorities over winning is not "smart". I'd say he's more selfish and delusional than intelligent.
Mike is clearly out of his element when it comes to running a pro football franchise. I don't where you get the idea that the man knows football. He seems to genuinely believe he's doing the best he possibly can to win. He's constantly defending his actions and leading us to believe we're only a few pieces and/or lucky bounces away from winning it all.
This a thousand times over. He doesn't know football. He only knows how to make money off of football. Which, thanks to the NFL's idiot-proof revenue sharing plan, makes it easy enough for even a dimwitted, stubborn, sperm-lucky old fool like him to succeed.
(02-15-2018, 05:54 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I guess it all depends on a persons definition of "smart". To me, someone who makes bad decisions based on control, meddling, poor talent acumen and choosing other priorities over winning is not "smart". I'd say he's more selfish and delusional than intelligent.
Mike is clearly out of his element when it comes to running a pro football franchise. I don't where you get the idea that the man knows football. He seems to genuinely believe he's doing the best he possibly can to win. He's constantly defending his actions and leading us to believe we're only a few pieces and/or lucky bounces away from winning it all.
(02-15-2018, 09:30 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: This a thousand times over. He doesn't know football. He only knows how to make money off of football. Which, thanks to the NFL's idiot-proof revenue sharing plan, makes it easy enough for even a dimwitted, stubborn, sperm-lucky old fool like him to succeed.
True, probably the biggest problem with this entire franchise is Mike Brown THINKS he knows football and is too stubborn to realize that others might ACTUALLY know football better. He was blessed with a father named Paul Brown who KNEW football.
This is why i was hoping he would finally step aside and let Katie Brown pick a GM who actually KNEW football.
Then all of this would be different in a great way.
What up Toast. Another offseason, another two year Marv extension.
At this point I am more of an observer of the team than a fan. The better part of my life now has been rooting for a team with Mike Brown as an owner, and I graduated high school in the mid 90s. I am beyond the breaking point though, as that happened a long while ago. Unfortunately for me there isnt another team I can latch onto like I have with them. Cause if there was, I would have been long gone leaving this franchise in my fanhood wake.
Anyhoots, I have no expectations at all from them to do much in the next two years. They might get a winning record, maybe even squeak in the playoffs somehow, but can't see them doing anything more than that.
(02-15-2018, 03:33 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It actually took me way longer than I care to admit to figure out how exactly to login on here. No less than 3 minutes at least on "Toast Jones" + different password combinations alone. So, anyways...
How is everybody doing, here? Anything new, other than this franchise still being a dumpster fire of clown shoes and full blown AID's?
Hand to God, I thought about talking some legitimate football over the last year or so with you all, but the couple times I tried I realized I couldn't do it without it reading like a smug or "rubbing it in" type of re-appearance.
Well...all you vets here, you new guys, maybe even some cool people I don't even know about yet, what's your thought on the upcoming season? Excited? Optimistic? Angry? Throwing trash on poor people who have been sucked into the abyss that is the Brown family?
Where you at? Let me hear it. Maybe express yourself by throwing in some gifs and vids for fun? Post a pair of fun bags. Dazzle me...
It's still nothing but entertainment to me and if the team falls apart again it's no skin of my scrotum or any other body parts. Even when they're getting trounced game after game they're at least entertaining . If by some miracle or act of congress win the super bowl my cat will still whine to be feed more than she needs then go puke half of it up in the middle of my shop..
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.
(02-15-2018, 04:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Welcome back TJ. I am with many on the deflated hopes wagon. The best hope we had in many years was thinking Marvin would be gone. Yet, with that extension, I witnesses a hope turn into a joke and remove the mystery of the ineptitude of Mr. Brown. I guess I already knew he was incapable, but this move was relentless towards the fan-base and the future of the team IMO.
Then I woke up the day after and realized, The Bengals are dead, but the BengalBoard is alive. So when this organization is out of it next year by week 5? At least we have each other.
Damn, that sounded pretty awful.
I went from crazy about team to numb. So good news is I removed my emotional investment and my financial investment at one time. I am now at peace.
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
Just a few thoughts and my opinion on the Mike Brown "knowing football", "being a smart", etc...
I don't doubt that Mike Brown knows football. I don't think you can grow up in, and surrounded by the environment that he was without being (football) smarter than the average the bear. I'm sure he learned quite a bit growing up in it, and has continued to learn more as the years have gone by.
I don't care who you are, or what it is exactly that you do, spending hours, days, weeks, and years involved with any career or passion will result in you gaining a great deal of knowledge and wisdom. So yes, I'm sure Mike Brown is smarter than most will give him credit for in regards to actual football knowledge. If you were to put the old man in a room watching film with Joe Q. Public, he's probably going to be able recognize things that a guy with NFL Red Zone and fantasy team will not. I'd bet quite a bit of money on the idea that Mike Brown knows X's and O's better than me, and has a much deeper understanding of everything that surrounds the locker-room.
As opinionated as I am, and despite the fact that I consider myself to be a pretty darn knowledgeable sports fan, I'm also not naive enough to think he's a simpleton, or that I could, or people similar to me could, offer more from actual game knowledge standpoint. I can't.
So does he know the game? Sure he does. The problem is the game, and more important, the approach he knows is well in the past. Simply saying his thoughts are dated almost doesn't seem like a strong enough description. The man is a dinosaur, as stubborn as he passionate, involved in a game and business that he simply can't keep up with. The game had already passed him by the time he took over. His views and approaches were already dusty and had the mouthball smell before the old man died.
I'm sure I'll get flack for saying this, but the game had passed his old man by too. He's a legend, he deserves all the credit he gets, but Paul Brown, HC of the Browns, vs. Paul Brown, HC and GM of the Bengals, are two completely different animals. Paul Brown - Browns is a legend, a HOF'er if there ever was one, and most importantly, he was ahead of his time. He won, and he won a lot. Paul Brown of the Bengals, while still a legend, and still a capable coach, had average to below average success here, and rather continue to post above seasons, and show innovation, slowly became a little bit of old grouch, a little a cheap, a little stubborn... (Sound like anyone?) And that's ok, it happens to pretty much everyone at some point. It doesn't nothing to diminish his career or contributions. I only point all of this out to illustrate that some of this is either learned or expected behavior.
I know I'm rambling a bit here, but I really do believe what I'm about to say here in a sec. I'm sure I'm not saying anything revolutionary here, but I think a lot of know this to be true...
I think winning his way, or his father's way (not exact, just the influence mindset) is more important to Mike than winning itself. And you know what, I'm not sure I can sit here and say that makes him a bad man. I get it. I think running his team, as he sees fit, has a much to do with ideals, his background, and having the balls to take on the criticism, as it does with penny-pinching. I do not think saying Mike Brown is just cheap tells the real story.
The real story, I believe, is much more complex, and is basically summed by explaining that the Mike is ancient, the man was guided into his position by another, aging and stubborn man, his old man. Winning in a way that honors his dad (not being bullied into reckless spending, not spending money on thing PB would find frivolous, etc.) is as important to him as all else. His thoughts and beliefs trumps perception and outside influence. His age and approach to business itself will go a lot further to explain the dumpster fire than another Scrooge reference.
I do not doubt that the man wants to win. But you know what, that doesn't really say much. Everybody wants to win. Every owner, team, coach, player and fan want to win. So I while I can't doubt that his heart is in the right place, I also can't give him any credit for what should be an obvious statement, a common attribute of all of his peers. The question really becomes, how much does he want to win? What is willing to do for it? What changes are being made, o what procedures are being implemented, what are we reviewing, to make this wish a reality? Because simply wanting something, without certain actions or sacrifices, doesn't speak to dedication or passion. Self-reflection, and the ability to find and hurdle potential obstacles, can mean as much as the wanting itself. These are things he lacks. The ability to adapt, the ability to be pro-active, the ability to take risks, the ability recognize your own faults and to react or change accordingly. They all play a part, and unfortunately these are things that plague his product.
I would really love to spend some sexy-time (nice!!!) with a super-model/model,actress caliber of woman. I assure you, I want that very much. Mila Kuniz, Jennifer Aniston, prime Kelly Kapowski, the chick from Precious... I'd give my left arm... Am I doing anything to make that a reality? Not really. Things as simple as going to the gym every week, 5 days a weeks, has proved to beyond my level of sacrifice at times. I've never done much to elevate my social standing from middle-class to the type of dude that gets chicks like that to double down on him. So while I want something, that means very little in getting it. I want a Tesla car, but I still spend way too much on any number of things. So I don't wants as much, or am willing to do as much, as the guys who actually own one.
I wanted to say, that apologize for the length of this (as I often do). Truth be told, I do really enjoy talking sports. And I've always loved writing about them (Fun fact: When I started college my initial plan was to go into Sportwriting). I know some here in the past have taken issue with what they found to be overly negative. And I get it. I won't deny that many of my thoughts on all things Bengals have slowly become influenced by a cluster#$%^ of disappointments, anger, biases, and by the years and years of following what has been at times, a product that is difficult to support. Am I negative on team issues? Yes. Have I gone out of my way to voice my displeasure, have I piled on at times. Sure have. But believe it or not, despite what many accuse me of, I am not an overly negative person in general, and I do not let this this team actually influence my mood a great deal.
I really am just a sports fan, born and raised in Cincy, who I one time followed everything this team did, and fell into more of the positive crowd. I enjoy speaking with many of you. I actually just enjoying writing and shooting the shit with like-minded people more than anything. Slowly posting less here has as much to with just pulling back from various forums and topics I like discussing, than it does with having had enough or walking way.
So anyways, glad to pop and say, hi. I'm not sure if I'm exactly a Bengals fan at the moment, and I can't say I have much if anything to add to any current issues. I've either said my piece, or I'm no longer informed enough to offer up much. My fandom went from fan-atical and passionate in early years, to cautiously optimistic, back to fanatical and passionate, then to anger and frustration. But at least I cared enough to allow them to frustrate me. Now it really is at the point of indifference. Complete apathy. I really don't care to follow them much any more, or to waste any time in thinking about what they could and will do, or what continues to ail them. Simply, I just don't care much any more. That's ok I think. It could change.
But thanks for having me. My advice to people who used to share the amount of frustration and disappointment that I did for many years is simply to let go. Easier said then done, I know, but it will eventually happen. I think understanding that Mike Brown, while terrible and bad for this city, is not a terrible and bad person, can go a long way in moving on. He's in a position he never eared or was qualified for (nepotism) to begin with, he was in over his head from the start. He was already old and had dated opinions when he took over 30 years ago. Now he's late in his life Milton Berle level old, trying to compete in an ultra-competitive, best of the best, no expenses spared business, with logic that was already behind the times when guys like Michael Irvin was still catching passes. He's not going to change, and this team will never run like it should with him at the helm. Just remember though, that his as much to do with the family history and approach, and an 100 year old man influencing a 1 billion dollar business in the year 2018, as it does just chalking it up to him being a POS.
Sucks for us, but that's the reality. We got a super old dude, greatly influenced by the logic passed down from an aging and stubborn father. Game passed the old man by, and it passed Mike by years ago. Like father, like son when it comes to modern approach. You just can't win in this league with Larry King running the show. Better just to accept, learn to laugh a little, and hope for the best.
(02-15-2018, 11:44 PM)grampahol Wrote: It's still nothing but entertainment to me and if the team falls apart again it's no skin of my scrotum or any other body parts. Even when they're getting trounced game after game they're at least entertaining . If by some miracle or act of congress win the super bowl my cat will still whine to be feed more than she needs then go puke half of it up in the middle of my shop..
Your cat barfs on your shop floor? Count your blessings. Mine used to drag her heaving body across the hard floor until just her head was lying on the carpet. Only then would she puke. I miss her anyway, even though she hated everybody in this world except for me.
Luvnit2
Welcome back. I like some others in the forum gave up my tickets. I am not optimistic which is a major change from the past. I am not going to become a negative Nancy like some blasting every move or non move made. But, like many very frustrated with the results the past few years when we were coming off hopeful years.
I will always be a fan and not jump to the Steeler's bandwagon or the newest great team. I hope I am wrong about 2018, but my guess is others who are not optimistic hope they are right so they can continue their rants and say "I told you guys" versus eating crow as some just can't take the taste.
Hey, I appreciate the welcome back! That goes for a number of you who were nice to enough to say as such, btw!
I guess I just wanted to single out this post, basically to offer up an apology or a truce, or what-have-you, to Luvnit2 here. While I think I owe him a virtual shake of the hand specifically, I'm hoping that some others will read it as a bit of a "my bad" catch-all. This kind of goes out to everyone.
I don't know if it's just the time away, or the fact the bald spot on my head is growing by the day (getting older), but in looking back I think I handled myself rather poorly at times on here. As much as I still believe much of what I previously said regarding the team, I think my approach was all wrong. I hope at times it was funny and insightful, but I fear it was also douchey and unnecessary
So, yeah, uh, I wanted to say sorry for butting heads with you so often in the past. More specifically, I'm sorry for the way I went about it, with Luvnit and others. In retrospect, I think a lot of what I wrote and the back-and-forth I found myself in, was entirely way to mean-spirited, I'm sure at times incredibly condescending, and just did very little to contribute to soladarity as Bengals fans, or good-natured fun. As often as mocked the idea of fake internet points and sides, I, without a doubt, fell into a mess of petty arguments that had more to do with personal disagreements and one-up-manship than actually driving a friendly conversation. Simply put, I think I was as many times a bit of an asshole. To you specfically.
I just wanted to say sorry for that, and sorry for clogging the boards with bs between me and the fake Toast or the turd B-fine who booted me from the fantasy league. The players, participants and dialogue was stale and unnecessary and I, more than most, contributed to it. For that, and just allowing myself to get so worked up about something the means very little to me in the grand scheme of things, I'm a little embarrassed. I never thought I'd be the message board guy with rivalries, who posts every 2 secs, and whores himself and time for rep points and pats on the back. But I mostly certainly did, I got way too caught up in internet bs to realize how just how stupid it was.
So, look... We may not agree on everything, or even very little. We may strongly disagree. And That's ok. I'm going to try my best to leave it to that simple idea if find myself in an argument here in the future. If it seemed like I went out of way to bicker or single you out, or anyone else, please consider this a friendly apology.
I don't think I'll be on here much just because I have little left to say and my interest continues to dwindle. But if and when I am I'm going to attempt to do more civil and treat people with more respect than I did with you previously. I'll bring my thoughts and leave any agenda at the door. There is no winning or influences to be done here, just dudes talking sports. I need to do more to remind myself of that.
I do appreciate the welcome back. I think you probably just said everything I did, with taking the time to write those two simple words. But hey, reformed a-hole or not, I still talk way more than I should.
No hard feelings, buddy...
PS The fact you unloaded you tickets is a surprise to me. I'm thinking of starting the old club again if you ever want to join. We meet on Tues night. The only requirements are you must HATE this team, and be willing to express that hate both vocally and physically. We don't just talk and spread the hate, but we burn jerseys, fight eachother over hates the team more, and Shake has a 4 wheeler he brings. Sometimes we call that Havean guy and prank him. All good, clean fun. You're more than welcome come over to this side. Just get ahold of CornerBlitz, he handles the initiation process. There will be some de-programming, followed by some punch. Everyone has to drink the kool-aid.
(02-15-2018, 10:20 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Funny, you and Pistons would've cuddled up together to death for the last few months of '17, with the negativity you guys spread...
You're always a good poster, Toast, but there's a way to be critical without being completely negative and turning people off; that's how this place was from November until playoffs.
I figured as much, which is why I made a point to stay away. A person whose attitude maybe changed throughout the year, or someone actually watching each and every week and each every minute, deserved the space and outlet much more than someone like me. There was literally nothing left for me to say that I hadn't said numerous times earlier. And I didn't want to be the guy that shows up the moment of failure with a smirk and a "I told you so". That guy sucks, I'm sure that much we can all agree
Truth be told, I never even read the boards during the season. I kinda just thought that one way or another they were ugly and better served for people to express real frustration than for another pseudo former fan like me to pile on. As crazy as it may sound, I really did and do feel bad for some of the more positive and vocal supporters. I know how much it sucks going through a year like that when you're hopes are up. I did it for so long. I'd get super hyped, only to have the team put a downer on my Sunday, or force me to chuck a remote or something. That shat SUCKS,
As Gloria said (paraphrased) to Billy Hoyle in the cinematic masterpiece that is White Men Can't Jump, "I don't want you just going to get you a glass of water. I want you to say you too get thirsty, that you can sympathize with me dry mouth." Well, positive Bengals fans... even this Negative Nancy too can sympathize with that glass of piss water you were served up.
My thoughts never made me want to mock anyone for having to drink it. I've been there. I too know what's like to have this team drive my nuts. Gloria, I can sympathize with you. lol I've drank that water like everyone else. I may be a dick at times, but I can't take any pleasure in regular everyday people, with regular everyday jobs and responsibilities having something that should be fun cause them frustration.
I can only imagine what the board were like after that press conference. Woof.... :paul:
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