Are Schools Too Protective Of Kids?

[*PhilHos*]

(02-16-2018, 12:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Children today deal with much more pressure and stress.  

I disagree. I think children today deal with DIFFERENT types of pressure and stress, but I don't see it as being more stressful.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 11:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

Brad knows nothing of how these children are treated or taught.  They could all be assigned different skills based on their abilities.  He knows absolutely zero about there lesson plans or special needs. He also knows nothing about autism or how children with autism can behave.  He has no background training in child development or psychology.

Yet he thinks himself an expert who knows more than the experts who have devoted their careers to working with children.  He is like the uncle who shows up and plays catch with an autistic child for 10 minutes and then declares that the child is fine and the doctors and psychologists and the child's parents are all stupid because the child doesn't really have any problems.

Once again, you're full of shit and I already addressed these points. which you conveniently ignore because they don't fit your agenda or pre-concieved notion that everyone else is wrong and you know everything.  

If they didn't lump them all together and just assume that they can't perform simple tasks, then why would my short interaction with her and instructions allow me to determine that she was capable-minded and could function well enough to perform the simple task of advancing the slides?

[XenoMorph]

(02-16-2018, 12:51 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Do not know which stat shows this because when I was in school there were never gun violence at school like today. 

Heck before columbine (spelling)   kids had their hunting rifles in their trunks at school. and the worst that ever happened were pigs running loose in the hallways...  A tracker race in the parking lot and water balloons from the roof. (we were more country back then....  town has grown. rules have changed.) oh and someone stole the local BigBoy statue

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 02:46 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If they didn't lump them all together and just assume that they can't perform simple tasks, then why would my short interaction with her and instructions allow me to determine that she was capable-minded and could function well enough to perform the simple task of advancing the slides?

Maybe she just got lucky.  Like the kid who drove fast once so he thought he could do it every time.

Like I pointed out before you always think you pick a kid who can do it but you are wrong half of the time.  It has nothing to do with your ability to judge these children.  It is just random chance.  If you were a perfect judge of these kids ability you would never pick a kid who is going to mess up.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 12:51 PM)Go Cards Wrote: My nephew played football and baseball and got offered a scholarship in both and excepted the baseball. Had many common players from his AAU elite baseball team that played football with him as well. Every single one got a scholarship coming out of Ballard HS. 

How is this possible if kids today are all soft?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-16-2018, 02:46 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Once again, you're full of shit and I already addressed these points. which you conveniently ignore because they don't fit your agenda or pre-concieved notion that everyone else is wrong and you know everything.  

If they didn't lump them all together and just assume that they can't perform simple tasks, then why would my short interaction with her and instructions allow me to determine that she was capable-minded and could function well enough to perform the simple task of advancing the slides?

You yourself have stated 50% of the kids you pick to assist you mess it up so your assessment is no better than a coin flip. At best.

Obviously, you have never heard of 504 plans. 504 plans address barriers to learning in kids with such diagnoses as ADD and ADHD, dyslexia, autism, etcetera. Each plan is customized individually between the school, the parents, and the student annually. So obviously all students aren't treated the same. Two students with ADD can have two different plans with different strategies to help them learn successfully.

You work is commendable, but now you are treating all schools and teachers the same way instead of individually, as you accuse all schools and teachers of treating others the same instead of individually.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 04:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe she just got lucky.  Like the kid who drove fast once so he thought he could do it every time.

Like I pointed out before you always think you pick a kid who can do it but you are wrong half of the time.  It has nothing to do with your ability to judge these children.  It is just random chance.  If you were a perfect judge of these kids ability you would never pick a kid who is going to mess up.

 Completely different situation and I don't know how you're not comprehending this.  I'd say that you're intentionally ignoring it, but I don't think that's the case.

It's not half the time, but let's say it is because that's what I mentioned: the teacher didn't know about the part that kids screw up on because no one had screwed up on it that day, she wasn't around when I told the other kids, I didn't mention it to her that it was ever a problem, and it's not something that anyone would ever think that kids have a problem with it because it only happened once and the kid hit the backspace within a second so it's not like anyone even noticed, so her assessment was that the child couldn't perform the simple task of clicking from slide to slide.

I also never said I was a PERFECT judge of a kid's ability, and it's not even about ability, but that's just more empty rhetoric, which is basically the only thing you ever post.

Kids just get anxious and impatient, and it's my fault really for the way I made the videos because two of the three football videos pause for 3 seconds when the arrow pops up, so they think nothing else is happening (I should have only made them pause for one second, but, for some reason, I thought kids might miss it if it was only there for once second.  Go here to see what I mean.)

(02-16-2018, 05:05 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You yourself have stated 50% of the kids you pick to assist you mess it up so your assessment is no better than a coin flip. At best.

Obviously, you have never heard of 504 plans. 504 plans address barriers to learning in kids with such diagnoses as ADD and ADHD, dyslexia, autism, etcetera. Each plan is customized individually between the school, the parents, and the student annually. So obviously all students aren't treated the same. Two students with ADD can have two different plans with different strategies to help them learn successfully.

You work is commendable, but now you are treating all schools and teachers the same way instead of individually, as you accuse all schools and teachers of treating others the same instead of individually.

It's not 50%, but it's a lot.  

Just because those plans are made, doesn't mean that they're not treated unfairly or labeled in a group as a child that can't do something, as my example shows.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-16-2018, 06:35 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:  Completely different situation and I don't know how you're not comprehending this.  I'd say that you're intentionally ignoring it, but I don't think that's the case.

It's not half the time, but let's say it is because that's what I mentioned: the teacher didn't know about the part that kids screw up on because no one had screwed up on it that day, she wasn't around when I told the other kids, I didn't mention it to her that it was ever a problem, and it's not something that anyone would ever think that kids have a problem with it because it only happened once and the kid hit the backspace within a second so it's not like anyone even noticed, so her assessment was that the child couldn't perform the simple task of clicking from slide to slide.

I also never said I was a PERFECT judge of a kid's ability, and it's not even about ability, but that's just more empty rhetoric, which is basically the only thing you ever post.

Kids just get anxious and impatient, and it's my fault really for the way I made the videos because two of the three football videos pause for 3 seconds when the arrow pops up, so they think nothing else is happening (I should have only made them pause for one second, but, for some reason, I thought kids might miss it if it was only there for once second.  Go here to see what I mean.)


It's not 50%, but it's a lot.  

Just because those plans are made, doesn't mean that they're not treated unfairly or labeled in a group as a child that can't do something, as my example shows.

You suggested some kids are all treated the same way. 504 plans ensure they are treated individually. Now, you're treating all schools and teachers the same based upon one example.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 06:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You suggested some kids are all treated the same way. 504 plans ensure they are treated individually. Now, you're treating all schools and teachers the same based upon one example.

A plan doesn't mean anything if it's not implemented.

I've been at a lot of schools and it always seems to be the same, this was just a personal example.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-16-2018, 07:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A plan doesn't mean anything if it's not implemented.

I've been at a lot of schools and it always seems to be the same, this was just a personal example.

Have you gathered any evidence the 504 plans aren't being implemented during the two hours you've known of their existence?

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 07:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Have you gathered any evidence the 504 plans aren't being implemented during the two hours you've known of their existence?

I’ve known about them since I was in high school, but just because they’re made doesn’t mean that they’re always followed or correct.

Schools will always go with the safer route and shelter kids rather.

This is a perfect example of a teacher not wanting me to ask a girl to perform a simple task out of fear.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-16-2018, 08:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I’ve known about them since I was in high school, but just because they’re made doesn’t mean that they’re always followed or correct.

Schools will always go with the safer route and shelter kids rather.

This is a perfect example of a teacher not wanting me to ask a girl to perform a simple task out of fear.

So then you should know all students aren't treated the same.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 09:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So then you should know all students aren't treated the same.

Every school I've been to they are.

Like I said, even if they're not, they're too protective of every special needs student.

I agree that some students need a lot of attention, care, and protection, but they're too quick to label them and keep them from doing things that they're perfectly capable of.

Also, like I said (I think I said), I was telling the other teacher about the same thing and he completely agreed and talked about it more than I did and in more depth.

[HarleyDog]

(02-16-2018, 09:14 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Every school I've been to they are.

Like I said, even if they're not, they're too protective of every special needs student.

I agree that some students need a lot of attention, care, and protection, but they're too quick to label them and keep them from doing things that they're perfectly capable of.

Also, like I said (I think I said), I was telling the other teacher about the same thing and he completely agreed and talked about it more than I did and in more depth.

Teachers are not afraid to challenge and help develop. They're afraid of the parent blow-back. They are handcuffed so-to-speak. Keep that in mind.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 09:23 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Teachers are not afraid to challenge and help develop. They're afraid of the parent blow-back. They are handcuffed so-to-speak. Keep that in mind.

Ok, so that would fall into the category of schools ARE being too protective of kids.

That does make sense, though, and that's what I'm saying by kids aren't allowed to reach their full capabilities.

[HarleyDog]

(02-16-2018, 09:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ok, so that would fall into the category of schools ARE being too protective of kids.

That does make sense, though, and that's what I'm saying by kids aren't allowed to reach their full capabilities.

And they never will at school. Too many lawsuits and angry parents at parent teacher conferences. Some due to a lack of discipline at home where the parent always trusts the child over the teacher. Then again, look at all the news reports lately of sexual abuse from teachers on students? Thats just one item of concern but there's many. I remember when a teacher said I did something wrong, I got my ass whipped by the principle, then another when I got home. I turned out fine. Drunk a lot, but fine. 

Some of the debates you are reading are legit. However, I still think you were spot on with your decision. One thing people are not recognizing is that they were not you, at that moment, to make that decision. It was a good decision IMO and kudo's to you for making it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-16-2018, 09:14 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Every school I've been to they are.

Like I said, even if they're not, they're too protective of every special needs student.

So how many autistic students were in the audience?

Quote:I agree that some students need a lot of attention, care, and protection, but they're too quick to label them and keep them from doing things that they're perfectly capable of.

Also, like I said (I think I said), I was telling the other teacher about the same thing and he completely agreed and talked about it more than I did and in more depth.

You're evidence that teachers at all schools are "too protective of every special needs student" is a teacher not being too protective.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 10:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So how many autistic students were in the audience?


You're evidence that teachers at all schools are "too protective of every special needs student" is a teacher not being too protective.

I only know about the one because she was one of the two students I asked about helping, so that's all the teacher told me about.

(02-16-2018, 10:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You're evidence that teachers at all schools are "too protective of every special needs student" is a teacher not being too protective.

How so?

He agreed that teachers are too protective.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-16-2018, 11:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I only know about the one because she was one of the two students I asked about helping, so that's all the teacher told me about.

If you don't know how many autistic students were in attendance then there is no way you can claim they are all treated the same.

Quote:How so?

He agreed that teachers are too protective.

And how was he treating the student? Overprotective?

[*Go Cards*]

(02-16-2018, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How is this possible if kids today are all soft?

When did I say any such thing ? 

This is comical.