Last 5 years Bengals vs Steelers 1st & 2nd round pick success shapes each Franchise

[depthchart]

(02-22-2018, 06:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I have liked Boyd since the day we drafted him. He showed promise his rookie year and all but disappeared last season..... I do think him and Ross are going to be fine this season.

Maybe our Coaches have too many wide receivers on the "turnstile".

Possibly ushering them in and out at practice.

The Steelers settled in on Ju Ju as the #2 receiver and didn't care if Martavis Bryant didn't like it or saw less practice reps.

For example, make say Tyler Boyd the #2 and go with it so that he can develop and lock it down rather than the "turnstile" of Lafell/Boyd etc.

Not sure if they plan on Ross being the #2 receiver or a #3 deep threat or a specialty package guy or what.

Seems to me that they may be experimenting with all of the receivers we have while the Steelers define roles, then Ju Ju can get maximum reps developing into that defined #2 role.

Maybe others on the Board can expand on this.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2018, 11:46 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I don't understand all the love for TJ Watt

Same here, we got a better pass rusher in the 4th round in the same draft.

Always thought TJ Watt was overrated. He is not his brother.

I think coaching is where this all changes. I don't think the Stealers nailed their drafts anymore than us really. They just know
how to coach their guys up much better. But i am sure if we added a Center in their somewhere we would be much better off.

Happy we got Joe Mixon. As long is we add a Center this year early we should be alright.

[depthchart]

(02-22-2018, 07:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Same here, we got a better pass rusher in the 4th round in the same draft.

Always thought TJ Watt was overrated. He is not his brother.

I think coaching is where this all changes. I don't think the Stealers nailed their drafts anymore than us really. They just know
how to coach their guys up much better. But i am sure if we added a Center in their somewhere we would be much better off.

Happy we got Joe Mixon. As long is we add a Center this year early we should be alright.

On a pick value & Sack total basis we have the edge on the Steelers with Carl Lawson a 4th rounder versus TJ Watt a 1st rounder.

Carl Lawson (in a 4-3 system) had 16 total tackles and 8.5 sacks (o forced fumbles)

TJ Watt (in a 3-4 system) had 54 total tackles and 7 sacks. (1 forced fumble, 7 pass deflections and 1 interception)

*Their roles are a little different but both are doing well with chances of becoming even better.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2018, 08:05 PM)depthchart Wrote: On a pick value & Sack total basis we have the edge on the Steelers with Carl Lawson a 4th rounder versus TJ Watt a 1st rounder.

Carl Lawson (in a 4-3 system) had 16 total tackles and 8.5 sacks (o forced fumbles)

TJ Watt (in a 3-4 system) had 54 total tackles and 7 sacks. (1 forced fumble, 7 pass deflections and 1 interception)

*Their roles are a little different but both are doing well with chances of becoming even better.

Lawson is one heck of a pass rusher man, he just needs to work on stopping the run and in pass coverage.

To get him in the 4th was one hell of a steal. I also think Willis will be a good one as he ages. To get both in one
Draft is pretty damn good IMHO. A lot better than just getting TJ Watt.

Still remember atleast two of TJ Watt's sacks where he was ripping on the O-lineman's face mask and should of been
called back. Funny how these Stealer players always get away with this stuff.

[BenZoo2]

Curios to know the size of the two scouting departments

[BengalChris]

(02-21-2018, 07:59 PM)depthchart Wrote: Players taken by each team in rounds 1 and 2 from 2013 to present (5 Drafts)  - How it impacts each Organization now

In an arguable descending order of talent actually shown on the field  (give or take order by shown on the field so far talent)


            Bengals                                                Steelers
         Tyler Eifert  (TE)                                    Le'Veon Bell  (RB)
     William Jackson III (Corner)                        Ryan Shazier  (LB)
         Joe Mixon  (RB)                                    Stephon Tuitt   (D-end)
         Gio Bernard  (RB)                            Ju Ju Smith Schuster  (WR)
         Jeremy Hill  (RB)                                      TJ Watt  (OLB)
        Darqueze Dennard (Corner)                       Artie Burns  (Corner)
          Tyler Boyd  (WR)                                   Bud Dupree   (LB)
          Jake Fisher  (Tackle)                                 Sean Davis   (Safety)
          Cedric Ogbuehi  (Tackle)                        Senquez Golson   (Corner)
          John Ross  (WR)                                    Jarvis Jones   (LB)

* This order is arguable and I created it quickly so I accept that some players may be switched around but you'll get the General point.

Bengals have taken 3 RB, 2 tackles, 2 corners, 2 wide receivers & 1 tight end in the 1st and 2nd rounds in the last 5 drafts

Steelers have taken 4 linebackers, 2 corners, 1 RB, 1 WR, 1 D-end & 1 safety in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the last 5 drafts

The Steelers landed a Superstar running back in Le'veon Bell with just one pick while we have used 3 picks to have a solid running back group.

Ryan Shazier was becoming a defensive Star before his injury, as was Tyler Eifert on offense who both may now be question marks due to health.

William Jackson III looks like a star player going forward.

Stephon Tuitt, TJ Watt, Ju Ju Smith Schuster, Artie Burns & Bud Dupree have shown solid signs and look to contribute a lot going forward for the Steelers.

Darqueze Dennard has become consistently productive with the Jury still out on Tyler Boyd, Jake Fisher, Cedric Ogbuehi and John Ross.

Jeremy Hill will be gone from the Bengals and Senquez Golson & Jarvis Jones will no longer be Steelers.

***  To sum up:  Not counting our best talent Tyler Eifert and their 2nd best talent Ryan Shazier because of injury concerns going forward -

The Steelers appear to have 6 reliable starting players made up of 1 Super Star in Le'veon Bell, 3 very good players in Tuitt, Ju Ju Smith Schuster & TJ Watt and 2 other decent starters in Burns & Dupree. (Sean Davis still has something to prove though starting)

The Bengals appear to have 2 reliable starting players in potential stars Jackson III and Mixon.  Darqueze Dennard has become solid in his role as has Gio Bernard. (Boyd, Ross, Cedric & Fisher are yet to obtain the "reliable" label but still have a shot at doing it)

**** I'll admit up front that this list was made quickly, the order or values of the various players may be rearranged, and I may stand corrected on a point or two here or there but the KEY seems to be that the Steelers are getting a better QUANTITY of reliable starting players with their early picks with bigger Star Power to boot. They are Nailing down reliable starters at a much better rate with their early picks.

The Domino Effect for the Bengals are holes and weak links at certain starting positions with hopes remaining pinned on a number of these same players to become reliable or the team suffers. Meanwhile, the Steelers can address other areas while feeling more confident in who they already have with less holes to fill or re-fill.


    

The best comparisons are production on the field and you are correct in the wide differences.

Dennard will end up being a top 5 slot corner though. Jackson is the best corner of all those listed.

Bernard is ok, not a 3 down back like some claim he is.

The jury is in on Ogbuehi and Fisher - neither is a viable starter at OT. The Bengals struck out, badly with these two! Ogbuehi has single handedly cost the team multiple games.

[Steve]

drafting Ced & Fisher really hurt the Bengals....both of them HUGE BUST....
the main dif b/t the 2 teams is the stealers have a solid O-line....
the Bengals O-line is total garbage.....
b/c the Bengals don't care about the O-line....
we just want cheap, crappy guys....
compare
Bodine to Pouncy....

the Bengals like flashy WR's.....
but Dalton has little to no time to pass the ball.....
we draft three 2nd rd RB's but the O-line can't open a hole for them.....

it seems like the Bengals don't understand.....the game is won or lost in the trenches.....

[grampahol]

(02-22-2018, 11:46 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I don't understand all the love for TJ Watt

Name recognition.. Plain and simple plus he plays for a marquee team . Other than that ..crickets.. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-22-2018, 10:40 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Artie Burns is complete trash, so I wouldn't say that he has even been serviceable.

(02-22-2018, 04:33 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: William Jackson is a super star, 

We can thank our former OC and DC for this. Bengals were all set to take a WR in the first round of the 2016 draft and the Steelers already had WJIII on speed dial, then the 3 picks before us went Will Fuller, Laquan Treadwell, Josh Doctson. We went with plan B and drafted a CB in Rd 1 again. 

[*Go Cards*]

(02-25-2018, 09:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We can thank our former OC and DC for this. Bengals were all set to take a WR in the first round of the 2016 draft and the Steelers already had WJIII on speed dial, then the 3 picks before us went Will Fuller, Laquan Treadwell, Josh Doctson. We went with plan B and drafted a CB in Rd 1 again. 

Just said the same thing the other day. 

Glad it happened that way. 

[shanebo]

(02-25-2018, 09:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We can thank our former OC and DC for this. Bengals were all set to take a WR in the first round of the 2016 draft and the Steelers already had WJIII on speed dial, then the 3 picks before us went Will Fuller, Laquan Treadwell, Josh Doctson. We went with plan B and drafted a CB in Rd 1 again. 

(02-25-2018, 10:30 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Just said the same thing the other day. 

Glad it happened that way. 

Too bad John Ross didn't get taken 1-8 last year -- we might've ended up with Marshon Lattimore ... Of course, he wouldn't have seen the field for us, thus no pro bowl or DROY ...

[depthchart]

(02-25-2018, 02:39 PM)Steve Wrote: drafting Ced & Fisher really hurt the Bengals....both of them HUGE BUST....
the main dif b/t the 2 teams is the stealers have a solid O-line....
the Bengals O-line is total garbage.....
b/c the Bengals don't care about the O-line....
we just want cheap, crappy guys....
compare
Bodine to Pouncy....

the Bengals like flashy WR's.....
but Dalton has little to no time to pass the ball.....
we draft three 2nd rd RB's but the O-line can't open a hole for them.....

it seems like the Bengals don't understand.....the game is won or lost in the trenches.....

                         LT                 LG                    C                     RG                  RT

Steelers       Villanueva*        Foster            Pouncey*           Decastro*        Gilbert

Bengals          Cedric             Boling              Bodine             Hopkins            Fisher
                       Andre           Westerman                             Westerman         Andre


  * = at least one Pro Bowl appearance

  Andre Smith is a Free Agent that may not return and he played a lot last year.

Steeler line has been working together for a while now allowing them to work as a unit and know how the guy next to them will respond in given situations.

Bengal O-line is unsettled, constantly shuffling guys around and lacks what I call the "thoroughbred quality". Pouncey and Decastro were no doubt thoroughbreds at their positions coming out of college. Having a physical superiority that is visible for all to see just like some players at other non-offensive line positions have for what they do. Guard Quenton Nelson coming out of Notre Dame has this thoroughbred quality. Thoroughbred players physically win, beat down and bloody nose most guys they come across and it takes another thoroughbred over them on the defensive side of the ball to maybe end up with an even match. Neutralize each other.

Boling is the closest thing we have to a thoroughbred player. Too many of our O-lineman are either getting out maneuvered athletically or are the end of the game guy with the bloody nose types (so to speak). Most of them will put up a fight, just like a guy getting whipped in the neighborhood does because everybody is watching, but everybody watches him lose because he isn't the thoroughbred in the fight. He is a pack horse.

Get some thoroughbreds on that line (like say Quenton Nelson) or more tissue for the nose bleeds.

Can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap.